PASSED: Liberate Democratia

[Enn]

Copy-pasting? Seriously?

I will be voting on this, based upon how my region decides, but I can't say I want to vote on this. Seems like a lazy proposal. There's inspiration, and then there's plagiarism.

[Elktown]

Yes it is a problem. People should be allowed to invade with a reason.

[The Rich Port]

Yes it is a problem. People should be allowed to invade with a reason.

Like?

[Leach Islands]

Yes it is a problem. People should be allowed to invade with a reason.

Like?

War

[The Rich Port]

Yes it is a problem. People should be allowed to invade with a reason.

Like?

War

That is not a reason, it is an action. War UNDER WHAT CIRCUMSTANCES?

[Manfigurut]

Then it is an abuse of the rules, an abuse of a LOOPHOLE. You know THAT word, too, huh? And, sure, it wouldn't be half as fun. Why do you think I'm so virulently for this measure? It wouldn't be any fun if the bad guys won all the time, now, would it?

Yes, I actually even know THAT word. I am sure you are quite impressed by my vocabulary...

>My region's WA Delegate is an evil dictator who ejects nations for no reason! Make him stop!
Delegates are elected: if you don't like yours, it's up to you to get him/her unelected. While in power, Delegates can use or abuse their powers as they see fit.

No sign of a loophole there, it even explicitly allows the delegate to do as he pleases. Besides, in other words, you are saying that abusing a rule loophole makes the game more fun. Do you play all games this way?

And why exactly do you oppose such a measure? You are giving the WA police powers it very desperately needs to avoid abuses around The World if one votes for it. And yet you claim to stand for the WA. Answer Messer Kalibarr's question, please.

As the delegate of a founderless region, he does not want other nations overriding his decision to implement a password if necessary. I'm sure you'd feel the same way if you were in his situation.

Jedi-Gangsters, you claim that the natives of Democratia oppose the delegate. Yet 5 out of 6 nations support him, regardless from which region they moved there. Earlier on you stated that the fact that the delegate has not been endorsed by the only "native" nation proves that his rule is unjust. I don't think you would apply the same principle in your own region. Has this native actually complained? Do you have any proof that the current delegate has maliciously destroyed the region? I wonder with what authority you proclaim yourself as the rightful spokesman of Democratia.

I oppose this resolution not because I like raider regions or the Axis of Evil (they aren't the kind of people I'd want to have in my region), but because I oppose the idea of "liberating" a region not by using cunning or tactics as used by all sporting invaders and defenders, but by running to the WA and having other people solve your problem. I also don't want other regions interfering in regional affairs that don't concern them.

[EVIL BEYOND COMPARE]

Very sloppy proposal please try to be more specific.
copy/paste

[The Nuclear Robatics]

I voted Against this dumb-Ass proposal

[Elktown]

That was a little childish.

[Talibistan (Ancient)]

Liberating Democratia is the honorable thing to do.[/quote]

I totally agree, this is the right and honourable. If the Axis is left to be able to do this to one region, then they'll do it to all regions that they fancy and that is not something that I want to see happen to my region, The Sovereign Region Of Jihadistan. The Axis has to be stopped and soon.

[EVIL BEYOND COMPARE]

It doesn'y matter if you liberate it, most of the old nation have been ban/jected so they can not come back. and the Axis has been there a while so they have alot of influence

[The Rich Port]

Yes, I actually even know THAT word. I am sure you are quite impressed by my vocabulary...

Not at all. You've a long way to go. We all do.

>My region's WA Delegate is an evil dictator who ejects nations for no reason! Make him stop!
Delegates are elected: if you don't like yours, it's up to you to get him/her unelected. While in power, Delegates can use or abuse their powers as they see fit.

No sign of a loophole there, it even explicitly allows the delegate to do as he pleases. Besides, in other words, you are saying that abusing a rule loophole makes the game more fun. Do you play all games this way?

I don't agree with that. And, besides, it is up to ME to stop the abuse, no? Then here I am doing something about it. The WA is weak as it is. It will be the channel of my power, and the power of it's agreeing members. And no, I do not play games this way. Even when the rules revolve around abusing the rules and exploiting loopholes, even then I play fair.

As the delegate of a founderless region, he does not want other nations overriding his decision to implement a password if necessary. I'm sure you'd feel the same way if you were in his situation.

Jedi-Gangsters, you claim that the natives of Democratia oppose the delegate. Yet 5 out of 6 nations support him, regardless from which region they moved there. Earlier on you stated that the fact that the delegate has not been endorsed by the only "native" nation proves that his rule is unjust. I don't think you would apply the same principle in your own region. Has this native actually complained? Do you have any proof that the current delegate has maliciously destroyed the region? I wonder with what authority you proclaim yourself as the rightful spokesman of Democratia.

I oppose this resolution not because I like raider regions or the Axis of Evil (they aren't the kind of people I'd want to have in my region), but because I oppose the idea of "liberating" a region not by using cunning or tactics as used by all sporting invaders and defenders, but by running to the WA and having other people solve your problem. I also don't want other regions interfering in regional affairs that don't concern them.

Perhaps he may answer the question himself next time, hm?

Let these "supporting natives" show their support here, appropriately, for all to see and understand. Do not claim to represent people whom did not elect or hire you to do so.

When the rights and freedoms of other peoples, when their land, when their reputations, when their livelihood is under threat, the WA must step in. Would you rather have the WA do nothing should genocide, should massacre, should destruction occur? The WA is composed of it's member nations; without them, it is an idea, set to paper. If it's member nations will it, then let this resolution pass, and let the Axis of Evil prey on another region so that, once again, we may oppose them. No rest for the wicked, after all.

Article 11 § Every WA Member State has the duty to conduct its relations with other NationStates in accordance with international law and with the principle that the sovereignty of each WA Member State is subject to the supremacy of international law

The WA protects it's own.

[Elktown]

Evil Beyond Control is correct. Most of the nations has been ejected anyway. It is likely that most won't come back. This is a waste of a debate.

[The Rich Port]

Evil Beyond Control is correct. Most of the nation has been eject anyway. It is likely that most won't come back. This is a waste of a debate.

So now we're taking advice from a guy that has "EVIL" in his name, and misspelled "comparison", probably due to size restrictions, probably because of a high degree of LOL WUT?

[Goobergunchia]

First of all, the argument that regional destruction is acceptable due to its legality under game rules is a weak argument against Liberation resolutions. As Liberation resolutions are also legal under game rules, they must be acceptable under the same logic. Demands to restore the status quo ante are about as persuasive as demands to restore the pre-Influence rule that prevented invader-elected Delegates from restricting the access of natives to their regions.

Now, let's look at some of the actual evidence in Democratia. First, regarding Lucky Number:

* 1 day, 5 hours ago: Democratia was targeted for Liberation in a World Assembly proposal by The Crazed Bananas of Jedi-Gangsters.
* 10 days ago: The Dictatorship of The Land of Alara arrived from The Axis of Evil.
* 10 days ago: The Confederacy of Palinsylvania arrived from The Axis of Evil.
* 10 days ago: The Republic of EVIL BEYOND COMPARE arrived from The Axis of Evil.
* 10 days ago: The Southwest Diner of Noringrad arrived from The Axis of Evil.
* 10 days ago: The Republic of Smetistan changed the regional password.
* 78 days ago: The Republic of Smetistan established the region's flag.
* 86 days ago: The Republic of Smetistan replaced The Ridiculously Free Land of Lucky Number as WA Delegate.
* 87 days ago: The Ridiculously Free Land of Lucky Number updated the World Factbook entry.
* 87 days ago: The Ridiculously Free Land of Lucky Number updated the World Factbook entry.

Lucky Number is the last nation to update the Democratia WFE, which currently states:

This region is now under the control of The Axis of Evil.

All that remains of this once thriving region is a barren landscape blackened and scarred by the terrible destructive force of Axis nukes.

Long live The Axis of Evil Army!

Therefore, it's pretty obvious that Lucky Number is loyal to The Axis of Evil. In fact, of the nations currently in the region

exilia_and_colonies:lucky_number:smetistan:noringrad:evil_beyond_compare:palinsylvania:the_land_of_alara

only Exilia and Colonies appears to predate the invaders. I have telegrammed Exilia and Colonies asking for their opinion on this resolution.

To be honest, the most compelling argument I've seen against this resolution is Cinistra's:

"Vibrant community", Jedi-Gangers . At the time of the raid, Democratia consisted of only a few members, and it never grew, never tried to recruit, and was frankly speaking dying. I know, 'cause I had a puppet who resided there for a long time. Once again we see the defenders trying to resurrect a dead horse, long after the carcass has been flogged. Withdraw this stupid resolution of yours, and let's be freed for this time-wasting of yours.

Rather than just taking your word for it, I'd like to see evidence here -- show us what the region looked like before the invasion. I haven't been able to find much from an initial scan except that TITO defended Democratia 131 days ago (see Blue Zebra's national happenings).

Goobergunchia
Nasicournian Officer
ADN Deputy Secretary of State (Ret.)

[Mafia Paese]

I Wholeheartedly disagree with taking over and pass.-protecting a region. You have my vote. Period.

[Kalibarr]

It doesn'y matter if you liberate it, most of the old nation have been ban/jected so they can not come back. and the Axis has been there a while so they have alot of influence

if the password is remove defenders will likely move in and clear the ban list.

[Mad Sheep Railgun]

Nigel looked over at the next proposal in the batch

Well that didn't last too long he said, back to the stupid they said they said soap opera...

Consulting the WeCouldReallyCareLessAboutCAndC's^TM Rubric, he said.

We were at first going to cast our vote for this proposition because of it's initial score of 25

+25 Points for No Mention of Nazis
- 25 Points for No Mention of Nazi Zombies
+25 Points for No Mention of Salad Dressing
- 10 Points for No Mention of Penguins
+10 Points for No Mention of Colors

however once we read all the way down the rubric realized we must vote against it because of this

-100 Points for copy and pasting and making no attempt to hide it.

This "WeCouldReallyCareLessAboutCAndC's^TM Rubric" is an excellent system! Do you mind if I just vote the same as you from now on? It will save me the effort of even having to think about the things.

[Goobergunchia]

It doesn'y matter if you liberate it, most of the old nation have been ban/jected so they can not come back. and the Axis has been there a while so they have alot of influence

if the password is remove defenders will likely move in and clear the ban list.

Observed:

Nations banned from Democratia: Al-Mujahid, An572, Blue Zebra, Muamar.

Al-Mujahid and Muamar are both currently resident in The Axis of Evil, and Blue Zebra was banned from Democratia by a defender delegate. So at least 3/4 of the nations currently banned from Democratia appear to have invader affiliations.

Goobergunchia
Nasicournian Officer
ADN Deputy Secretary of State (Ret.)

[Elktown]

I think that before anything happens, there should be a proper investigation, instead of jumping to quick conclusions. It this bill passes, it is a jump to a conclusion.

[Kalibarr]

It doesn'y matter if you liberate it, most of the old nation have been ban/jected so they can not come back. and the Axis has been there a while so they have alot of influence

if the password is remove defenders will likely move in and clear the ban list.

Observed:

Nations banned from Democratia: Al-Mujahid, An572, Blue Zebra, Muamar.

Al-Mujahid and Muamar are both currently resident in The Axis of Evil, and Blue Zebra was banned from Democratia by a defender delegate. So at least 3/4 of the nations currently banned from Democratia appear to have invader affiliations.

Goobergunchia
Nasicournian Officer
ADN Deputy Secretary of State (Ret.)

It's likely there are no natives, or the natives are supportive of the Axis regime making liberating it useless

[The Rich Port]

There were natives there at one time. They're probably long gone by now. Should the measure pass, it will bring back the natives, no?

[Minyos]

I am just reiterating my stance on SC matters.

I will not and have not endorsed any C&C and have and will always vote against if it comes to vote.

Liberations I am not endorsing either, but abstaining from voting. The only exception was "Liberating the Security Council" which I endorsed and voted for, but that was a direct gameplay ploy,

I have voted and endorsed for a repeal or two; these were to correct past errors, but not errors I had been involved in creating.

Iain.

[EVIL BEYOND COMPARE]

It doesn'y matter if you liberate it, most of the old nation have been ban/jected so they can not come back. and the Axis has been there a while so they have alot of influence

if the password is remove defenders will likely move in and clear the ban list.

yes but axis is already there and they will ban the defenders, or we might just leave because the natives are long gone by now

[The Rich Port]

It doesn'y matter if you liberate it, most of the old nation have been ban/jected so they can not come back. and the Axis has been there a while so they have alot of influence

if the password is remove defenders will likely move in and clear the ban list.

yes but axis is already there and they will ban the defenders, or we might just leave because the natives are long gone by now

Maybe so. But, again, the natives can't come back either way if a password impedes such a return. It must be removed and the Axis cleared away. Are there any defenders planning on moving in?