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Lycrabon/Northwest Kalactin Host Bid For Baptism of Fire 68

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Lycrabon
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Lycrabon/Northwest Kalactin Host Bid For Baptism of Fire 68

Postby Lycrabon » Sun Jul 15, 2018 9:23 pm

NOTE: Bid reflects change to solo bid.

First of all, thank you for your consideration of this bid. Lycrabon is a proud nation, home to (IC) over 116 million people over fifty provinces. We are best know for our baseball prowess, but we like our soccer/football (depending on how you refer to it) as well.

I. OUR EXPERIENCE:

This would be our first hosting on the soccer pitch, but we have hosted before:

NSCF Woodlands Conference (Season 2, I believe)
NSCAA (2 conference creations, in the beinning)
World Baseball Classic 17 and 24

II. HOW WE WOULD ROLL

Depending on squads, we would have an even number in each group (e.g. 60 teams, 15 groups of 4). Each team would face off once against their other counterparts with each group winner, and possibly a number of runners-up advancing to the knockouts.

Tiebreakers:
1- Points
2- Head to head
3- Goal difference
4- Goals scored
5- Goals allowed
6- "Play-in game"

The accepted RP Permissions list will be used:

CODE: SELECT ALL
RP Permissions
Choose my scorers:
Choose my scoring events:
Godmod scoring events:
RP injuries to my players:
Godmod Injuries to my players:
Give Yellow Cards to my players:
Give Red Cards to my players:
Godmod other events:

The final number will determine where group stage games will be, but the knockout rounds will be in the stadia of the Lycrabon National Soccer.

Of course, what system of scoring is the most important question. I will use the current version of xkoranate.



Once again, thank you for your time.
Last edited by Lycrabon on Mon Jul 16, 2018 11:41 am, edited 1 time in total.
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WBC 12 quarterfinals

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The Sherpa Empire
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Postby The Sherpa Empire » Sun Jul 15, 2018 9:38 pm

Northwest Kalactin has previously been accused of faking or butchering results in other competitions. I think you're going to have some trust issues.

Read starting from here: viewtopic.php?p=34075951#p34075951
Last edited by The Sherpa Empire on Sun Jul 15, 2018 9:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Liventia
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Postby Liventia » Sun Jul 15, 2018 11:44 pm

The Sherpa Empire wrote:Northwest Kalactin has previously been accused of faking or butchering results in other competitions. I think you're going to have some trust issues.

Read starting from here: viewtopic.php?p=34075951#p34075951

There's more where that came from:
This entire thread, for example.

At the very least, someone who can't, or doesn't want to, RP (case in point: NK cannot schedule more matches in this season's cricket competiton on NS because he's not RPed to an acceptable level for a new nation) shouldn't be hosting, or bidding to host, an RP-based tournament like the BoF.
Last edited by Liventia on Sun Jul 15, 2018 11:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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The Plough Islands
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Postby The Plough Islands » Sun Jul 15, 2018 11:54 pm

I share all the concerns raised about Northwest Kalactin as nothing I've seen makes me think they would be a suitable host I'm afraid. I think there's also something highly dodgy about someone hosting their own BoF, as Lycrabon has signed up for it in the thread.

Lycrabon wrote:Of course, what system of scoring is the most important question. I, as will Northwest Kalactin, will use the current version of xkoranate.

There's multiple different formulas that can be used with xkoranate as well as different approaches to the RP bonus (obviously quite important for a tournament that seeks to develop and reward RP skills) - some clarity in this department would be appreciated?
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Lycrabon
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Postby Lycrabon » Mon Jul 16, 2018 12:14 am

I will address both concerns - all valid, by the way.

1-As to NK's qualifications:

I was asked about co-hosting by them, and I'm willing to give them the benefit of the doubt, as I've not participated in an event that they've started/had issues with. That said, if I notice shenanigans, I'll immediately take over solo.

2-Me hosting an event I'm in:

The reason I entered, is that my KPB is 0, which as I understand it, allows me to enter. If there's a general consensus that I shouldn't participate, I will gladly drop out. Just for reference, of the two World Baseball Classics I've hosted:

17, I didn't qualify for the knockouts;
and 24, I was swept in the first round.

I'm not sure who the baseball playing regulars are in the World Cup, but 17 had one of the most exciting finishes (and the most exciting I've personally seen) in tournament history.

3-RP bonus:

A roster will get a bonus for the entirety of the BoF.
The RP bonus will reset (not counting the roster) at the start of the knockouts, and again in the semifinals.

I'm happy to address concerns/questions as they come up, and the biggest reason I even put one in was that no one else had up to now.
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Postby NSWC Signups » Mon Jul 16, 2018 12:44 am

On the matter of being eligible to be part of this edition of the BoF, you entered into WC53 as Lycrabon and having inherited Barnettsville ranking as a successor state. The latter having participated in a BoF before means that Lycrabon is ineligible to participate.
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Postby Lycrabon » Mon Jul 16, 2018 1:22 am

Not an issue. I wasn't sure if I was. Makes things easier anyway!


Although the fact that NK hasn't responded themselves to the worries with being co-host possibly, puzzles and worries me a bit.
Last edited by Lycrabon on Mon Jul 16, 2018 1:27 am, edited 1 time in total.
Embassy information NS Wiki: NS Wiki page (work in progress) Factbook (Work in progress)
Formerly Republic of Barnettsville (IC liberated and disbanded via war)
As Lycrabon:
World Baseball Classic XX Champion
Saugeais Baseball Tournament I: 3rd Place
WBC 18-19 Quarterfinals

Under former regime:
WB VII-X; BOI quarterfinals; IV Summer Olympics; WC 49/BoF 36
WBC 12 quarterfinals

Hosting:
WBC 17 and 24, NSCF 2 Woodlands Conference

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Postby Nephara » Mon Jul 16, 2018 1:47 am

For mine, leaving aside the Kalactin issue since other people have already said everything I would, and with the pinch of salt that I don't actually have a vote in the matter;

Lycrabon, your hosting record is fine, and I think everyone would probably be comfortable with you as a junior host of a WCC event. Ideally, that would come after a cycle's return of constant RPing, just to embed you back in the NSWC picture. There's just something a little strange with the image of someone returning to the community and immediately being given hosting duties. But, whatever, you take my point; I don't have a problem with you or with your record, and I sincerely appreciate your openness in this thread and your enthusiasm to contribute.

But this BoF is very special, and very important. We have a precious, fragile influx of a shitton of teams. That makes it a lot harder to host, for one thing, but also means we really, really, really, really, really, really, really cannot afford any missteps.

I would love to see you host in the near future, but this is an almost uniquely high-pressure BoF. I think you'd struggle to get votes at the best of times, I think it's impossible with Kalactin as part of the bid. But please don't be discouraged, no matter the result.
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Postby Cassadaigua » Mon Jul 16, 2018 3:11 am

Having participated in Lycrabon-hosted events, I am fine with him as a host.

Then I see the other half of bid, and can only want to scream and pull my hair out, thinking, "Why, Lycrabon? Why?"

Northwest Kalactin doesn't RP. Ok, maybe you'll get one or two smaller things from him, but he doesn't regularly RP by any means. His responses to criticism, such as the late-May response in the cricket shows he is oblivious to hosting concerns people have about him. In January, he was accused of not using a scorinator, and five months later, he proved he never took that advice to heart. Also, if there was any concern about the trust people have in Northwest Kalactin, this vote should have said a lot.

Sorry, Lycrabon, I'm still pulling my hair with your co-host choice. No way I can vote for this.
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Postby Northwest Kalactin » Mon Jul 16, 2018 5:15 am

Cassadaigua wrote:Having participated in Lycrabon-hosted events, I am fine with him as a host.

Then I see the other half of bid, and can only want to scream and pull my hair out, thinking, "Why, Lycrabon? Why?"

Northwest Kalactin doesn't RP. Ok, maybe you'll get one or two smaller things from him, but he doesn't regularly RP by any means. His responses to criticism, such as the late-May response in the cricket shows he is oblivious to hosting concerns people have about him. In January, he was accused of not using a scorinator, and five months later, he proved he never took that advice to heart. Also, if there was any concern about the trust people have in Northwest Kalactin, this vote should have said a lot.

Sorry, Lycrabon, I'm still pulling my hair with your co-host choice. No way I can vote for this.

Trust me my ability to hosting international competitions may be bad but look at my domestic competitions (besides cricket) have you seen my soccer results I have done 4 leagues in 1 day before plus a cup in rugby I’ve done 2 in 1 day also the past Is the past like I don’t think quebec and apox would like me to bring up a World Cup or free Republics the 11th summer Olympics right we all have our faults and we shouldn’t be judged by those if you have a problem with me hosting deal with it it’s not you in tournament it’s a ton of new nations that I pledge to use RL time if I have to to make this competition as perfect as it can get.
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Postby Sargossa » Mon Jul 16, 2018 5:42 am

Northwest Kalactin wrote:Trust me my ability to hosting international competitions may be bad but look at my domestic competitions (besides cricket) have you seen my soccer results I have done 4 leagues in 1 day before plus a cup in rugby I’ve done 2 in 1 day also the past Is the past like I don’t think quebec and apox would like me to bring up a World Cup or free Republics the 11th summer Olympics right we all have our faults and we shouldn’t be judged by those if you have a problem with me hosting deal with it it’s not you in tournament it’s a ton of new nations that I pledge to use RL time if I have to to make this competition as perfect as it can get.

Emphasis mine. You're bidding to host an international event, so that's hardly encouraging. And the speed at which you churn out, seemingly flawed, domestic scores is wholly irrelevant to the points being made. Plus, as Nephara phrased more eloquently than I a little ways above, the fact that 'a ton of new nations' will be in this BoF is exactly why it should have the best hosting possible.
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Postby The Royal Kingdom of Quebec » Mon Jul 16, 2018 6:28 am

Northwest Kalactin wrote:[also the past Is the past like I don’t think quebec and apox would like me to bring up a World Cup or free Republics the 11th summer Olympics right we all have our faults and we shouldn’t be judged by those if you have a problem with me hosting deal with it it’s not you in tournament it’s a ton of new nations that I pledge to use RL time if I have to to make this competition as perfect as it can get.

Um, no.

First, I am still a proud 6-time WCC-event host (2x WC, 2x CoH, 2x BoF) and it remains a proud part of my hosting history. Aside from olympics, hosting World Cup is the greatest honour a host can have, and to cohost WC73 and 77 with success on RP and operational standpoint was something that I cherish to this day.

Second, it is also to be noted that my retirement from hosting, for most part, was brought by the RL situations than anything related by the slightest to the "WC77 controversy". At some point I had to pick up the pieces that I left it hanging loosely with some departments of life, so I decided to retire from WC + UICA. I do not regret the decision to retire, nor do I regret my time in WC.

Third, please don't bring highly qualified hosts' name trying to deface them in association with your situation. Free Republics, regardless of whatever that may have been discussed in past, is a highly competent and experienced host who should be having no trouble hosting even the Summer Olympics. You? Not even close because it's proven from time to time that you aren't using a scorinator nor willing to listen to others' suggestions.
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Postby Apox » Mon Jul 16, 2018 7:16 am

To back up Quebec - as the other co-host of WC73 I have no memory of that cup not going smoothly throughout hosting it.
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Postby Michine » Mon Jul 16, 2018 10:10 am

Lycrabon: That's fine with me, thankyou for the clarification on everything, my mind's at rest as far as you're concerned :3 Although I can't support this bid I would have no issues at all in supporting or taking part in a tournament you host in the future.

Northwest Kalactin:
Northwest Kalactin wrote:Trust me my ability to hosting international competitions may be bad but look at my domestic competitions (besides cricket) have you seen my soccer results I have done 4 leagues in 1 day before plus a cup in rugby I’ve done 2 in 1 day also the past Is the past like I don’t think quebec and apox would like me to bring up a World Cup or free Republics the 11th summer Olympics right we all have our faults and we shouldn’t be judged by those if you have a problem with me hosting deal with it it’s not you in tournament it’s a ton of new nations that I pledge to use RL time if I have to to make this competition as perfect as it can get.

Speaking as one of the "ton of new nations", I find the implication that new, or new to the World Cup, countries can be fobbed off with a lower quality of hosting quite insulting, to be honest. The thing about the Baptism of Fire is that it's meant to introduce new countries in a solid, supportive environment; if anything that demands a higher quality of host, not lower, especially when there's so many newbies as there are now.
From what I've seen, the one core unshakable principle of Nationstates sports hosting isn't speed, or quality of organisation, or time spent on the tournament - although those are all important, and essential to a good tournament - it's confidence that the results have been generated impartially and fairly. I don't believe you use a scorinator, I haven't seen any evidence that you know how to use xkoranate, and I don't have any trust that a tournament you hosted would have impartially, fairly generated results, I'm afraid. You can change that perception with time, and hosting good tournaments, and taking part in roleplay, and not lashing out at the first sign of something going wrong - but I've already seen in the 2-3 months I've been involved multiple occasions where you've had those chances and not taken them, and until that changes I wouldn't want to be involved. I'd rather skip such a tournament entirely and take my chances in the main draw.
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Postby Union of Socialist Alpine Republics » Mon Jul 16, 2018 10:17 am

I'm sorry but I can't support this bid.

I have nothing against you Lycabron, and I think this bid would have a better chance to pass if it was a solo bid. However, I think it's better when the BoF has two hosts, a senior one and a junior one that can be trusted. In this bid, I can't trust the junior host.
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Postby Lycrabon » Mon Jul 16, 2018 11:32 am

In response to all of the concerns with NK co-hosting, I have made the decision to go it alone. This is not an indictment of their ability per se; I just feel that the less that is out of my control, the easier it is to fix any issues. The bid will be adjusted shortly.
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Postby Vledasia » Mon Jul 16, 2018 3:29 pm

(This is Razen btw). Concerning your use of Xkoranate what type of scorination setting for assoc. football are you looking to use, Lycra? Adding-on, multiplicative or additive? Next do you plan to consult the use of RP bonus?

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Postby South Toronto » Mon Jul 16, 2018 3:34 pm

Lycrabon wrote:In response to all of the concerns with NK co-hosting, I have made the decision to go it alone. This is not an indictment of their ability per se; I just feel that the less that is out of my control, the easier it is to fix any issues. The bid will be adjusted shortly.


Might be off topic but was this a mutual agreement or you simply offloading your biggest weakness in this bid? Other than that, nothing wrong with the bid and IMO, you'd have a way higher chance of winning the bid than with NK.
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Postby Lycrabon » Mon Jul 16, 2018 4:20 pm

Additive, and yes on RP bonus. Scale of 0-1 probably, with an increment for the entirety of the tournament for posting a roster.

I planned on bonus resets at the beginning of the knockouts and the semifinals.
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Northwest Kalactin
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Postby Northwest Kalactin » Mon Jul 16, 2018 6:46 pm

Michine wrote:Lycrabon: That's fine with me, thankyou for the clarification on everything, my mind's at rest as far as you're concerned :3 Although I can't support this bid I would have no issues at all in supporting or taking part in a tournament you host in the future.

Northwest Kalactin:
Northwest Kalactin wrote:Trust me my ability to hosting international competitions may be bad but look at my domestic competitions (besides cricket) have you seen my soccer results I have done 4 leagues in 1 day before plus a cup in rugby I’ve done 2 in 1 day also the past Is the past like I don’t think quebec and apox would like me to bring up a World Cup or free Republics the 11th summer Olympics right we all have our faults and we shouldn’t be judged by those if you have a problem with me hosting deal with it it’s not you in tournament it’s a ton of new nations that I pledge to use RL time if I have to to make this competition as perfect as it can get.

Speaking as one of the "ton of new nations", I find the implication that new, or new to the World Cup, countries can be fobbed off with a lower quality of hosting quite insulting, to be honest. The thing about the Baptism of Fire is that it's meant to introduce new countries in a solid, supportive environment; if anything that demands a higher quality of host, not lower, especially when there's so many newbies as there are now.
From what I've seen, the one core unshakable principle of Nationstates sports hosting isn't speed, or quality of organisation, or time spent on the tournament - although those are all important, and essential to a good tournament - it's confidence that the results have been generated impartially and fairly. I don't believe you use a scorinator, I haven't seen any evidence that you know how to use xkoranate, and I don't have any trust that a tournament you hosted would have impartially, fairly generated results, I'm afraid. You can change that perception with time, and hosting good tournaments, and taking part in roleplay, and not lashing out at the first sign of something going wrong - but I've already seen in the 2-3 months I've been involved multiple occasions where you've had those chances and not taken them, and until that changes I wouldn't want to be involved. I'd rather skip such a tournament entirely and take my chances in the main draw.

So this guy doesn’t use Xkorinate
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Drawkland
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Postby Drawkland » Mon Jul 16, 2018 6:55 pm

Northwest Kalactin wrote:
Michine wrote:Lycrabon: That's fine with me, thankyou for the clarification on everything, my mind's at rest as far as you're concerned :3 Although I can't support this bid I would have no issues at all in supporting or taking part in a tournament you host in the future.

Northwest Kalactin:

Speaking as one of the "ton of new nations", I find the implication that new, or new to the World Cup, countries can be fobbed off with a lower quality of hosting quite insulting, to be honest. The thing about the Baptism of Fire is that it's meant to introduce new countries in a solid, supportive environment; if anything that demands a higher quality of host, not lower, especially when there's so many newbies as there are now.
From what I've seen, the one core unshakable principle of Nationstates sports hosting isn't speed, or quality of organisation, or time spent on the tournament - although those are all important, and essential to a good tournament - it's confidence that the results have been generated impartially and fairly. I don't believe you use a scorinator, I haven't seen any evidence that you know how to use xkoranate, and I don't have any trust that a tournament you hosted would have impartially, fairly generated results, I'm afraid. You can change that perception with time, and hosting good tournaments, and taking part in roleplay, and not lashing out at the first sign of something going wrong - but I've already seen in the 2-3 months I've been involved multiple occasions where you've had those chances and not taken them, and until that changes I wouldn't want to be involved. I'd rather skip such a tournament entirely and take my chances in the main draw.

So this guy doesn’t use Xkorinate

Sorry to butt in for the moment, since this technically isn't part of the bid anymore, but this clearly isn't xkoranate, Kalactin.

The tables are formatted, but the results are clearly faked. For example, Kempsey United is said to have played 22 games, but their record (15-8-5) claims they've played 28. Not to mention the points are also inconsistent (15-8-5 should be 53 points, not 47).

Later in the post, the Bank Cup results are clearly not from xkoranate. Xkoranate results come formatted with en dashes between the scores (1–1), while the results on this post use hyphens (1-1). It's a slight difference, but the evidence is clear.

I feel like it would be a lot easier to just learn the ropes of xkoranate than trying to elaborately fake them. But you do you.


As far as the bid is concerned, I'm curious to know whether you plan to have a Round of 32 or Round of 16, Lycrabon. Choosing a bid to vote for is going to be hard with all these decent bids showing up today!
Last edited by Drawkland on Mon Jul 16, 2018 6:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.
United Dalaran wrote:Goddammit, comrade. I just knew that someday some wild, capitalist, imperialist interstellar empire will swallow our country.

CN on the RMB wrote:drawkland's leader has survived so many assassination attempts that I am fairly certain he is fidel castro in disguise
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Strike
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Founded: Oct 12, 2011
Ex-Nation

Postby Strike » Mon Jul 16, 2018 7:02 pm

Northwest Kalactin wrote:So this guy doesn’t use Xkorinate


Well drawkland has already outlined some theories on this. However, regardless of whether or not you did use the actual scorinator this statement and link shows a few other things that may give someone pause when considering the merits of an NK bid for a major hosting duty including lacking of the attention to detail and ability to follow rules and criteria that might be expected of a WCC host.

Northwest Kalactin wrote: Xkorinate

Northwest Kalactin wrote:2: Globe Cup & vilitan cove invitational

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Northwest Kalactin
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Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Northwest Kalactin » Mon Jul 16, 2018 7:10 pm

Drawkland wrote:
Northwest Kalactin wrote:So this guy doesn’t use Xkorinate

Sorry to butt in for the moment, since this technically isn't part of the bid anymore, but this clearly isn't xkoranate, Kalactin.

The tables are formatted, but the results are clearly faked. For example, Kempsey United is said to have played 22 games, but their record (15-8-5) claims they've played 28. Not to mention the points are also inconsistent (15-8-5 should be 53 points, not 47).

Later in the post, the Bank Cup results are clearly not from xkoranate. Xkoranate results come formatted with en dashes between the scores (1–1), while the results on this post use hyphens (1-1). It's a slight difference, but the evidence is clear.

I feel like it would be a lot easier to just learn the ropes of xkoranate than trying to elaborately fake them. But you do you.


As far as the bid is concerned, I'm curious to know whether you plan to have a Round of 32 or Round of 16, Lycrabon. Choosing a bid to vote for is going to be hard with all these decent bids showing up today!

I would appreciate help with it
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Drawkland
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Founded: Aug 27, 2013
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Drawkland » Mon Jul 16, 2018 7:33 pm

Northwest Kalactin wrote:
Drawkland wrote:I feel like it would be a lot easier to just learn the ropes of xkoranate than trying to elaborately fake them. But you do you.

I would appreciate help with it

If you need help, there's likely some guides floating around on the subforum that you can find. If those aren't enough or you can't find any, I'm sure any experienced user would be willing to help if you give them a shout in telegrams.
United Dalaran wrote:Goddammit, comrade. I just knew that someday some wild, capitalist, imperialist interstellar empire will swallow our country.

CN on the RMB wrote:drawkland's leader has survived so many assassination attempts that I am fairly certain he is fidel castro in disguise
The INTERSTELLAR EMPIRE of DRAWKLAND
____________________
Founder of Sonnel. IBO President. Legendary. Rule 33.

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Lycrabon
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Founded: Jul 20, 2010
Ex-Nation

Postby Lycrabon » Mon Jul 16, 2018 7:59 pm

Drawk, since we're at around 60, and might get 70....it's looking like round of 32. But with the other bids, for me it might be a moot point.
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Formerly Republic of Barnettsville (IC liberated and disbanded via war)
As Lycrabon:
World Baseball Classic XX Champion
Saugeais Baseball Tournament I: 3rd Place
WBC 18-19 Quarterfinals

Under former regime:
WB VII-X; BOI quarterfinals; IV Summer Olympics; WC 49/BoF 36
WBC 12 quarterfinals

Hosting:
WBC 17 and 24, NSCF 2 Woodlands Conference

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