Germany, and much of the Euro Area laugh at the USA's growth

[StubbsAlbany]

BBC News: German economy sees 'record' growth of 2.2%.

-----------------------------------------

A) Obviously never learnt about 'Hyperinflation'.
B) ...And we all know what happened after that.
C) Run Poland Run!!!
D) Fuck you France, we're not saving you this time, we have the Olympics to prepare for.

[The Corparation]

They can grow at that rate for decades and not match the US economically...

The EU already is a greater economic force than the USA.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GDP_(nominal)

IMF GDP estimates 2009
EU: 16.4trl USD
USA: 14.2trl USD

Given the enlargement of the EU into eastern Europe, strong growth can be expected in future years as well, and the growth we're seeing here is being led by Germany too. So, basically you're talking shit

1 country versus 44747747474 countries...
Ill take my chances.

America is 50 states, the EU is 30-40 statecountries.

Fixed

[Adultland]

They can grow at that rate for decades and not match the US economically...

The EU already is a greater economic force than the USA.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GDP_(nominal)

IMF GDP estimates 2009
EU: 16.4trl USD
USA: 14.2trl USD

Given the enlargement of the EU into eastern Europe, strong growth can be expected in future years as well, and the growth we're seeing here is being led by Germany too. So, basically you're talking shit

So can we cash in on the money Germany and the rest of you owe us for rebuilding you lot after one of your many disastrous wars?

[Arthropoda Ingens]

What's that Europe? A group of supposedly 'progressive' countries experiencing massive xenophobia to the point of considering oppression of minorities?

There's only a minority that gives a shit about Europe's supposed 'Progressiveness', and a large part of said minority just so happens to consist of left-ish Americans.

A good European majority will happily cheer you on if you mock said American left-ish folks for their delusional rose-tinted view of Europe.

Oh, I don't know; we can apparently manage large welfare systems that empower the poor, reduce income inequality, raise opportunity, and yet also grow faster post-recession AND have a bigger GDP than the USA? How is that rose-tinted?
Unless you're measuring American success in terms of negative growth and income inequality? That must be it.

Are you illiterate or something?

The point is that recent figures are proving American's economic approach inferior to ours, in general. We can be progressive socially and economically progressive too. Why can't the USA be both? Lazy Americans? That's what the right put the poor down to anyway isn't it? Laziness, I guess Americans must just be much lazier than the average European, if they can't manage decent social provisions and economic expansion?

Congrats, that's now twice in a row that you're not getting what I was referring to. Some self-delusional sense of importance that makes you feel addressed when you really... Well... Weren't?

Though, even acknowledging this, you still failed to read & comprehend the post, anyway.

You're trying to dismiss the original post by saying it only appeases some "minorities". The point is the aforementioned successes, not to distract from them to say "oh well it doesn't really matter, this is just about your sense of entitlement or empowerment". No, it's because I'm sick of hearing reams of shit about how the American system is economically better, and how our welfare states are useless, and all that, while we're actually doing quite damn good right now considering; especially in direct contrast to the USA. But no, America's always better because... well, for some reason we can't measure in GDP or income inequality, or even number of people in prison or things like that. Because apparently those sorts of measurements are irrelevant! My initial point is not insubstantial, you can attempt to dismiss it all you like; but that's not an accurate assessment.

'k. You've successfully convinced me that yes, you are in fact illiterate.

Thrice in a row. Go for gold, man.

[Zomerania]

Great a pissing contest between the U.S. and E.U.

[Adultland]

What's that America? A group of countries with large spending on universal healthcare and welfare policies are growing much faster economically post-recession than you? *dances*

What's that Europe? A group of supposedly 'progressive' countries experiencing massive xenophobia to the point of considering oppression of minorities?

Hopefully as our economy improve, we'll stop being xenophobic.

Fat chance that will happen, but I'm optimistic.

Besides, does he forget the KKK? In the UK second generation black immigrants generally earn more than their white peers. In the USA blacks in general earn less than their white peers. Don't think our friend can comment as if the USA is magically tolerant....

Thats because your immigrants actually come for an education and a better chance at life while generally blacks in America have an anti-intellectual culture.

[Glorious Homeland]

They can grow at that rate for decades and not match the US economically...

The EU already is a greater economic force than the USA.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GDP_(nominal)

IMF GDP estimates 2009
EU: 16.4trl USD
USA: 14.2trl USD

Given the enlargement of the EU into eastern Europe, strong growth can be expected in future years as well, and the growth we're seeing here is being led by Germany too. So, basically you're talking shit

So can we cash in on the money Germany and the rest of you owe us for rebuilding you lot after one of your many disastrous wars?

We paid that back a few years back, with interest. Don't you know?

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/4970720.stm

There was another article relating to marshal plan money I read a while ago but can't find it right now.

What's that Europe? A group of supposedly 'progressive' countries experiencing massive xenophobia to the point of considering oppression of minorities?

There's only a minority that gives a shit about Europe's supposed 'Progressiveness', and a large part of said minority just so happens to consist of left-ish Americans.

A good European majority will happily cheer you on if you mock said American left-ish folks for their delusional rose-tinted view of Europe.

Oh, I don't know; we can apparently manage large welfare systems that empower the poor, reduce income inequality, raise opportunity, and yet also grow faster post-recession AND have a bigger GDP than the USA? How is that rose-tinted?
Unless you're measuring American success in terms of negative growth and income inequality? That must be it.

Are you illiterate or something?

The point is that recent figures are proving American's economic approach inferior to ours, in general. We can be progressive socially and economically progressive too. Why can't the USA be both? Lazy Americans? That's what the right put the poor down to anyway isn't it? Laziness, I guess Americans must just be much lazier than the average European, if they can't manage decent social provisions and economic expansion?

Congrats, that's now twice in a row that you're not getting what I was referring to. Some self-delusional sense of importance that makes you feel addressed when you really... Well... Weren't?

Though, even acknowledging this, you still failed to read & comprehend the post, anyway.

You're trying to dismiss the original post by saying it only appeases some "minorities". The point is the aforementioned successes, not to distract from them to say "oh well it doesn't really matter, this is just about your sense of entitlement or empowerment". No, it's because I'm sick of hearing reams of shit about how the American system is economically better, and how our welfare states are useless, and all that, while we're actually doing quite damn good right now considering; especially in direct contrast to the USA. But no, America's always better because... well, for some reason we can't measure in GDP or income inequality, or even number of people in prison or things like that. Because apparently those sorts of measurements are irrelevant! My initial point is not insubstantial, you can attempt to dismiss it all you like; but that's not an accurate assessment.

'k. You've successfully convinced me that yes, you are in fact illiterate.

Thrice in a row. Go for gold, man.

"There's only a minority that gives a shit about Europe's supposed 'Progressiveness', and a large part of said minority just so happens to consist of left-ish Americans.

A good European majority will happily cheer you on if you mock said American left-ish folks for their delusional rose-tinted view of Europe."
You've constantly, from the start, tried to change the topic and dismiss the initial notion by ignoring it and going off on your own tangent that's unrelated to it. And you call me illiterate?

Oh well, if it serves you well.

What's that America? A group of countries with large spending on universal healthcare and welfare policies are growing much faster economically post-recession than you? *dances*

What's that Europe? A group of supposedly 'progressive' countries experiencing massive xenophobia to the point of considering oppression of minorities?

Hopefully as our economy improve, we'll stop being xenophobic.

Fat chance that will happen, but I'm optimistic.

Besides, does he forget the KKK? In the UK second generation black immigrants generally earn more than their white peers. In the USA blacks in general earn less than their white peers. Don't think our friend can comment as if the USA is magically tolerant....

Thats because your immigrants actually come for an education and a better chance at life while generally blacks in America have an anti-intellectual culture.

Lol, like Jamaica or Kenya or Ghana? I'm talking about second generation immigrants here though. The ones that are influenced by the state as much as their parents, much like most black folk in the USA.

[Zomerania]

[/quote]

Thats because your immigrants actually come for an education and a better chance at life while generally blacks in America have an anti-intellectual culture.[/quote]
Really just Black Americas, no other groups people?

[Arthropoda Ingens]

What's that Europe? A group of supposedly 'progressive' countries experiencing massive xenophobia to the point of considering oppression of minorities?

There's only a minority that gives a shit about Europe's supposed 'Progressiveness', and a large part of said minority just so happens to consist of left-ish Americans.

A good European majority will happily cheer you on if you mock said American left-ish folks for their delusional rose-tinted view of Europe.

Oh, I don't know; we can apparently manage large welfare systems that empower the poor, reduce income inequality, raise opportunity, and yet also grow faster post-recession AND have a bigger GDP than the USA? How is that rose-tinted?
Unless you're measuring American success in terms of negative growth and income inequality? That must be it.

Are you illiterate or something?

The point is that recent figures are proving American's economic approach inferior to ours, in general. We can be progressive socially and economically progressive too. Why can't the USA be both? Lazy Americans? That's what the right put the poor down to anyway isn't it? Laziness, I guess Americans must just be much lazier than the average European, if they can't manage decent social provisions and economic expansion?

Congrats, that's now twice in a row that you're not getting what I was referring to. Some self-delusional sense of importance that makes you feel addressed when you really... Well... Weren't?

Though, even acknowledging this, you still failed to read & comprehend the post, anyway.

You're trying to dismiss the original post by saying it only appeases some "minorities". The point is the aforementioned successes, not to distract from them to say "oh well it doesn't really matter, this is just about your sense of entitlement or empowerment". No, it's because I'm sick of hearing reams of shit about how the American system is economically better, and how our welfare states are useless, and all that, while we're actually doing quite damn good right now considering; especially in direct contrast to the USA. But no, America's always better because... well, for some reason we can't measure in GDP or income inequality, or even number of people in prison or things like that. Because apparently those sorts of measurements are irrelevant! My initial point is not insubstantial, you can attempt to dismiss it all you like; but that's not an accurate assessment.

'k. You've successfully convinced me that yes, you are in fact illiterate.

Thrice in a row. Go for gold, man.

"There's only a minority that gives a shit about Europe's supposed 'Progressiveness', and a large part of said minority just so happens to consist of left-ish Americans.

A good European majority will happily cheer you on if you mock said American left-ish folks for their delusional rose-tinted view of Europe."
You've constantly, from the start, tried to change the topic and dismiss the initial notion by ignoring it and going off on your own tangent that's unrelated to it. And you call me illiterate?

Oh well, if it serves you well.

You must be working under the assumption that my initial reply was to you.

This assumption is wrong.

Given that I

• Replied to Conservative Morality's post & point made
• You then quoted me, yet opted to reply with something that had absolutely, positively nothing whatsoever to do with what I'd told Conservative Morality
• You repeated this three times in a row

I find your allegation that I was the one trying to change the topic amusing at best.

You may have a point with this as far as it pertains Conservative Morality (Though actually, not really. If one understands this thread not as a comparison of economic data, but merely as an intercontinental pissing match, which frankly, it was from the start, then CM's point is completely valid), but absolutely, positively, and even if granting this thread some sort of relevance, not with regards to me.

[Call to power]

It's not trolling, it's a good time to use a good example, to point out that those who believe the USA's system is flawlessly superior are wrong.

but your doing it in a rude and unproductive way

Our British debt could be better, we're fixing that now.

by putting economic growth and social support on the sidelines so the Tories can have a wank over cuts

yes our debt is a problem but not as big as its made out to be by those that want to exploit it for their own personal ideas /my Neu Arbeit rant

Our system could be better in so many ways, but for now it's plodding along alright. The EU could definitely use a few reforms.

aye its plodding along but that doesn't mean we should ignore falling victim to our own hubris by short term export growth in the German market

especially as we need our largest trading partner bouncing back

But if I come across a bit brutish, just to point out the blazingly obvious that none of them can accept or admit? So be it. They apparently can't handle the idea that their system is wrong or inferior. Defensiveness... hah! That kind of mentality will cripple themselves long term, that helps no one.

a better idea would be bringing forward why Germany has worked I remember the Economist did this awhile ago by pointing out the problems in the Anglo-Saxon model that have allowed Germany to become the dominant Europower

I believe one example was Obama asking why America couldn't have a high speed rail network

[Glorious Homeland]

What's that Europe? A group of supposedly 'progressive' countries experiencing massive xenophobia to the point of considering oppression of minorities?

There's only a minority that gives a shit about Europe's supposed 'Progressiveness', and a large part of said minority just so happens to consist of left-ish Americans.

A good European majority will happily cheer you on if you mock said American left-ish folks for their delusional rose-tinted view of Europe.

Oh, I don't know; we can apparently manage large welfare systems that empower the poor, reduce income inequality, raise opportunity, and yet also grow faster post-recession AND have a bigger GDP than the USA? How is that rose-tinted?
Unless you're measuring American success in terms of negative growth and income inequality? That must be it.

Are you illiterate or something?

The point is that recent figures are proving American's economic approach inferior to ours, in general. We can be progressive socially and economically progressive too. Why can't the USA be both? Lazy Americans? That's what the right put the poor down to anyway isn't it? Laziness, I guess Americans must just be much lazier than the average European, if they can't manage decent social provisions and economic expansion?

Congrats, that's now twice in a row that you're not getting what I was referring to. Some self-delusional sense of importance that makes you feel addressed when you really... Well... Weren't?

Though, even acknowledging this, you still failed to read & comprehend the post, anyway.

You're trying to dismiss the original post by saying it only appeases some "minorities". The point is the aforementioned successes, not to distract from them to say "oh well it doesn't really matter, this is just about your sense of entitlement or empowerment". No, it's because I'm sick of hearing reams of shit about how the American system is economically better, and how our welfare states are useless, and all that, while we're actually doing quite damn good right now considering; especially in direct contrast to the USA. But no, America's always better because... well, for some reason we can't measure in GDP or income inequality, or even number of people in prison or things like that. Because apparently those sorts of measurements are irrelevant! My initial point is not insubstantial, you can attempt to dismiss it all you like; but that's not an accurate assessment.

'k. You've successfully convinced me that yes, you are in fact illiterate.

Thrice in a row. Go for gold, man.

"There's only a minority that gives a shit about Europe's supposed 'Progressiveness', and a large part of said minority just so happens to consist of left-ish Americans.

A good European majority will happily cheer you on if you mock said American left-ish folks for their delusional rose-tinted view of Europe."
You've constantly, from the start, tried to change the topic and dismiss the initial notion by ignoring it and going off on your own tangent that's unrelated to it. And you call me illiterate?

Oh well, if it serves you well.

You must be working under the assumption that my initial reply was to you.

This assumption is wrong.

Given that I

• Replied to Conservative Morality's post & point made
• You then quoted me, yet opted to reply with something that had absolutely, positively nothing whatsoever to do with what I'd told Conservative Morality
• You repeated this three times in a row

I find your allegation that I was the one trying to change the topic amusing at best.

You may have a point with this as far as it pertains Conservative Morality (Though actually, not really. If one understands this thread not as a comparison of economic data, but merely as an intercontinental pissing match, which frankly, it was from the start, then CM's point is completely valid), but absolutely, positively, and even if granting this thread some sort of relevance, not with regards to me.

Then why didn't you point that out to begin with "I was responding to conservative morality", rather than bluntly accusing "you're illiterate." multiple times? You did this yourself. Compare how I respond to you, with how I respond to CtP, for instance. I'm reasonable when presented with reason.

It's not trolling, it's a good time to use a good example, to point out that those who believe the USA's system is flawlessly superior are wrong.

but your doing it in a rude and unproductive way

Our British debt could be better, we're fixing that now.

by putting economic growth and social support on the sidelines so the Tories can have a wank over cuts

yes our debt is a problem but not as big as its made out to be by those that want to exploit it for their own personal ideas /my Neu Arbeit rant

Our system could be better in so many ways, but for now it's plodding along alright. The EU could definitely use a few reforms.

aye its plodding along but that doesn't mean we should ignore falling victim to our own hubris by short term export growth in the German market

especially as we need our largest trading partner bouncing back

But if I come across a bit brutish, just to point out the blazingly obvious that none of them can accept or admit? So be it. They apparently can't handle the idea that their system is wrong or inferior. Defensiveness... hah! That kind of mentality will cripple themselves long term, that helps no one.

a better idea would be bringing forward why Germany has worked I remember the Economist did this awhile ago by pointing out the problems in the Anglo-Saxon model that have allowed Germany to become the dominant Europower

I believe one example was Obama asking why America couldn't have a high speed rail network

Awh, I like you, and it's not just the fish! Far too sensible and mediating. You only have to look at the responses to see what I was responding to, in my tone. A defensive wall. Any attempts at constructiveness would be wasted on them.
Any articles on why the German model is better? I'd be fascinated. Our own production isn't exactly great, Britain could learn plenty from those bloody industrious Germans!

[Herskerstad]

They can grow at that rate for decades and not match the US economically...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_co ... nominal%29

Not too sure if I agree with that statement. As aside from the GDP differences being pretty close if you look at the list I would suspect that the US will be hit quite hard due to the financial policies the nation has had the last two decades. It will have an effect worldwide, but I suspect the US will get the shortest straw.

[Cosmopoles]

The Economist
http://economist.com/blogs/freeexchange/2010/08/europes_economies?fsrc=scn/fb/wl/bl/turbocharged

What's that America? A group of countries with large spending on universal healthcare and welfare policies are growing much faster economically post-recession than you? *dances*

Its pretty hilarious how you quote this article and completely overlook the points made in the related editorial.

America’s and Europe’s economic fortunes are as tightly bound as ever. For all the talk of competition, politicians in Brussels and Frankfurt should be praying for growth in America—just as their peers in Washington, DC, should be pleased to hear about China’s nouveaux riches ordering German cars and French claret.

First, Germany apart, the euro area remains weak. Spain, whose economy is barely growing and where the jobless rate is 20%, would love to have America’s problems. Second, Germany relies on exports, not spending at home: the home market is one of the few places where sales of Mercedes cars have fallen this year. So its economic fortunes remain closely tied to the rest of the world—including one of its biggest markets, America.

But a slide into a second recession would require firms to cut back again on stocks, capital spending and jobs. The cash buffer corporate America has built up in case of harder times makes a fresh shock of that kind unlikely.

[New Huxlian Orwell]

They can grow at that rate for decades and not match the US economically...

They can more than match the US for standards of living. America #1? Nope, number 15 in the world in the Human development index.

[Arthropoda Ingens]

What's that Europe? A group of supposedly 'progressive' countries experiencing massive xenophobia to the point of considering oppression of minorities?

There's only a minority that gives a shit about Europe's supposed 'Progressiveness', and a large part of said minority just so happens to consist of left-ish Americans.

A good European majority will happily cheer you on if you mock said American left-ish folks for their delusional rose-tinted view of Europe.

Oh, I don't know; we can apparently manage large welfare systems that empower the poor, reduce income inequality, raise opportunity, and yet also grow faster post-recession AND have a bigger GDP than the USA? How is that rose-tinted?
Unless you're measuring American success in terms of negative growth and income inequality? That must be it.

Are you illiterate or something?

The point is that recent figures are proving American's economic approach inferior to ours, in general. We can be progressive socially and economically progressive too. Why can't the USA be both? Lazy Americans? That's what the right put the poor down to anyway isn't it? Laziness, I guess Americans must just be much lazier than the average European, if they can't manage decent social provisions and economic expansion?

Congrats, that's now twice in a row that you're not getting what I was referring to. Some self-delusional sense of importance that makes you feel addressed when you really... Well... Weren't?

Though, even acknowledging this, you still failed to read & comprehend the post, anyway.

You're trying to dismiss the original post by saying it only appeases some "minorities". The point is the aforementioned successes, not to distract from them to say "oh well it doesn't really matter, this is just about your sense of entitlement or empowerment". No, it's because I'm sick of hearing reams of shit about how the American system is economically better, and how our welfare states are useless, and all that, while we're actually doing quite damn good right now considering; especially in direct contrast to the USA. But no, America's always better because... well, for some reason we can't measure in GDP or income inequality, or even number of people in prison or things like that. Because apparently those sorts of measurements are irrelevant! My initial point is not insubstantial, you can attempt to dismiss it all you like; but that's not an accurate assessment.

'k. You've successfully convinced me that yes, you are in fact illiterate.

Thrice in a row. Go for gold, man.

"There's only a minority that gives a shit about Europe's supposed 'Progressiveness', and a large part of said minority just so happens to consist of left-ish Americans.

A good European majority will happily cheer you on if you mock said American left-ish folks for their delusional rose-tinted view of Europe."
You've constantly, from the start, tried to change the topic and dismiss the initial notion by ignoring it and going off on your own tangent that's unrelated to it. And you call me illiterate?

Oh well, if it serves you well.

You must be working under the assumption that my initial reply was to you.

This assumption is wrong.

Given that I

• Replied to Conservative Morality's post & point made
• You then quoted me, yet opted to reply with something that had absolutely, positively nothing whatsoever to do with what I'd told Conservative Morality
• You repeated this three times in a row

I find your allegation that I was the one trying to change the topic amusing at best.

You may have a point with this as far as it pertains Conservative Morality (Though actually, not really. If one understands this thread not as a comparison of economic data, but merely as an intercontinental pissing match, which frankly, it was from the start, then CM's point is completely valid), but absolutely, positively, and even if granting this thread some sort of relevance, not with regards to me.

Then why didn't you point that out to begin with "I was responding to conservative morality", rather than bluntly accusing "you're illiterate." multiple times?

Because having quoted Conservative Morality, it seemed kind of obvious?

[Glorious Homeland]

The Economist
http://economist.com/blogs/freeexchange/2010/08/europes_economies?fsrc=scn/fb/wl/bl/turbocharged

What's that America? A group of countries with large spending on universal healthcare and welfare policies are growing much faster economically post-recession than you? *dances*

Its pretty hilarious how you quote this article and completely overlook the points made in the related editorial.

America’s and Europe’s economic fortunes are as tightly bound as ever. For all the talk of competition, politicians in Brussels and Frankfurt should be praying for growth in America—just as their peers in Washington, DC, should be pleased to hear about China’s nouveaux riches ordering German cars and French claret.

First, Germany apart, the euro area remains weak. Spain, whose economy is barely growing and where the jobless rate is 20%, would love to have America’s problems. Second, Germany relies on exports, not spending at home: the home market is one of the few places where sales of Mercedes cars have fallen this year. So its economic fortunes remain closely tied to the rest of the world—including one of its biggest markets, America.

But a slide into a second recession would require firms to cut back again on stocks, capital spending and jobs. The cash buffer corporate America has built up in case of harder times makes a fresh shock of that kind unlikely.

Yes, although the original point was never an attack on transatlantic trade. Rather, an attempt to point out that the American system isn't the best for the die hards who are convinced it is.

[The Bleeding Roses]

They can grow at that rate for decades and not match the US economically...

They can more than match the US for standards of living. America #1? Nope, number 15 in the world in the Human development index.

A worthless index that is biased towards equality.

Here in America we have a thing called capitalism which rewards success and punishes stupidity.

[New Huxlian Orwell]

They can grow at that rate for decades and not match the US economically...

They can more than match the US for standards of living. America #1? Nope, number 15 in the world in the Human development index.

A worthless index that is biased towards equality.

Here in America we have a thing called capitalism which rewards success and punishes stupidity.

Yeah, those pesky facts, always throwin' a monkey wrench in your ideology. All capitalism does is reward greed. Equality is a good thing.

[The Bleeding Roses]

They can grow at that rate for decades and not match the US economically...

They can more than match the US for standards of living. America #1? Nope, number 15 in the world in the Human development index.

A worthless index that is biased towards equality.

Here in America we have a thing called capitalism which rewards success and punishes stupidity.

Yeah, those pesky facts, always throwin' a monkey wrench in your ideology. All capitalism does is reward greed. Equality is a good thing.

Only jealous people say that.

[New Genoa]

They can grow at that rate for decades and not match the US economically...

They can more than match the US for standards of living. America #1? Nope, number 15 in the world in the Human development index.

A worthless index that is biased towards equality.

Here in America we have a thing called capitalism which rewards success and punishes stupidity.

Except when the big businesses start failing and we start bailing them out....

[Vetalia]

Bear in mind these are also countries embarking on aggressive plans to shore up their finances and rein in their deficit spending, unlike the US which is still clinging to the fantasy of stimulus despite the severe negative consequences it will pose in the near future unless we get our own house in order. Of course, the EU is also apparently blessed with actual leaders instead of wishy-washy, ineffective politicians like Obama.

[The Bleeding Roses]

They can grow at that rate for decades and not match the US economically...

They can more than match the US for standards of living. America #1? Nope, number 15 in the world in the Human development index.

A worthless index that is biased towards equality.

Here in America we have a thing called capitalism which rewards success and punishes stupidity.

Except when the big businesses start failing and we start bailing them out....

Last I checked we were talking individuals...

[Karsol]

GO EU!!!

But, with places like China and Turkey flourishing, State Capitalism is the new Laissez-faire.

[Vetalia]

GO EU!!!

But, with places like China and Turkey flourishing, State Capitalism is the new Laissez-faire.

I wouldn't got that far. China's got problems building that make ours look tame in comparison.

[New Genoa]

Bear in mind these are also countries embarking on aggressive plans to shore up their finances and rein in their deficit spending, unlike the US which is still clinging to the fantasy of stimulus despite the severe negative consequences it will pose in the near future unless we get our own house in order. Of course, the EU is also apparently blessed with actual leaders instead of wishy-washy, ineffective politicians like Obama.

I think EU parliaments also have ways of dealing with hung parliaments better than the US does. I'm sure we'd have more effective politicians if we didn't vote so rigidly along party lines -- which means politicians now need to pander to lots of groups, with some groups (religious right, anyone?) getting more attention than others. All we have in congress is bickering...how many European countries have approval ratings of their own legislatures lower than the US Congress?

But alas, that's more related to the US electoral system, and off-topic.