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Can Homophobia Be Justified?

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Punished UMN
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Psychotic Dictatorship

Postby Punished UMN » Tue Feb 23, 2021 2:08 am

Daarwyrth wrote:
Disgraces wrote:Let me translate it for you: he said that he understands why someone would want to criminalize homosexual acts, not that he agrees with it.

There is no logical or rational argument for the criminalization of homosexual acts. We don't criminalise having blue eyes or brown hair either.

While I am pro-gay rights, I don't think your argument is necessarily the best. Many things are criminalized for which there isn't really a logical or rational argument for the criminalization of. For example: incest, even in cases where the involved individuals have no prior knowledge of each other, is illegal in most Western countries, for reasons that basically amount to the public thinking it's gross.
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Disgraces
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Democratic Socialists

Postby Disgraces » Tue Feb 23, 2021 2:08 am

Picairn wrote:
Disgraces wrote:Eye or hair color isn't a mental illness.

No, I'm not homophobic.

Did I hear a Freudian slip?

No, I believe homosexuality is a mental illness (not that it's a bad thing, obviously), and I think it should be common sense.

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Punished UMN
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Psychotic Dictatorship

Postby Punished UMN » Tue Feb 23, 2021 2:09 am

Very glad the hottest take I've posted in ten years on this site happens to be at the top of a busy thread lmao
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Picairn
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Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Picairn » Tue Feb 23, 2021 2:09 am

Palmyrion wrote:What you call tyranny, we call moral uprightness. —Tradcons

Does Tradcons have a similar quote for slavery or genocide? Or racism?
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Palmyrion
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Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Palmyrion » Tue Feb 23, 2021 2:10 am

Hjallvinter wrote:
Shazbotdom wrote:
When all your links are loads of unprecedented bullshit...that kinda means that they are unprecedented bullshit.


I know that your argument is dependent on goalpost moving. People asked for instances of pedophiles tying themselves to LGBT. I provided. You say it's not good enough because you don't want it to be good enough.

"Oh, but they're unwanted..."

It doesn't change the fact that they are with you, using that movement as a pretext to push their own ends, which was the original crux of the argument that led into this discussion.

Sorry, but facts are facts.

Apparently if you tie yourself to anything then you're immediately part of that anything, even if that anything is fiercely rejecting you. :think:

Disgraces wrote:
Picairn wrote:Did I hear a Freudian slip?

No, I believe homosexuality is a mental illness (not that it's a bad thing, obviously), and I think it should be common sense.

The APA and the DSM-V would love to have a word with you.
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Picairn
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Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Picairn » Tue Feb 23, 2021 2:10 am

Disgraces wrote:No, I believe homosexuality is a mental illness (not that it's a bad thing, obviously), and I think it should be common sense.

Nope. Just nope.

Someone kills me please.
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Listen here Jack, we're going to destroy malarkey.

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Chuukango
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Founded: Mar 02, 2015
Scandinavian Liberal Paradise

Postby Chuukango » Tue Feb 23, 2021 2:11 am

Disgraces wrote:
Picairn wrote:Did I hear a Freudian slip?

No, I believe homosexuality is a mental illness (not that it's a bad thing, obviously), and I think it should be common sense.

To call something an illness implies it is harmful or that the person suffering is "sick" in some way, does it not? With that in mind- how do you perceive homosexuality to be a mental illness?
Last edited by Chuukango on Tue Feb 23, 2021 2:11 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Disgraces
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Democratic Socialists

Postby Disgraces » Tue Feb 23, 2021 2:11 am

Daarwyrth wrote:
Disgraces wrote:Eye or hair color isn't a mental illness.

No, I'm not homophobic.

Excuse me, mental illness? You call homosexuality a mental illness? And make the claim you're not homophobic? I guess you missed the memo about the WHO coming to their senses and scrapping homosexuality from the list of mental illnesses... sadly, I don't think there is any hope for you that you'll come to yours.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4771012/
Read this. Ignore the religious bullshit if there is any.

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Palmyrion
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Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Palmyrion » Tue Feb 23, 2021 2:11 am

Picairn wrote:
Palmyrion wrote:What you call tyranny, we call moral uprightness. —Tradcons

Does Tradcons have a similar quote for slavery or genocide? Or racism?

For tradcons, they're also morally repugnant, right up there with homosexuality, transsexuality, the sort.
Palmyrion is here to kick ass and chew bubblegum. And he's out of bubblegum.

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Hjallvinter
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Founded: Feb 22, 2021
Ex-Nation

Postby Hjallvinter » Tue Feb 23, 2021 2:12 am

Palmyrion wrote:
Hjallvinter wrote:
I know that your argument is dependent on goalpost moving. People asked for instances of pedophiles tying themselves to LGBT. I provided. You say it's not good enough because you don't want it to be good enough.

"Oh, but they're unwanted..."

It doesn't change the fact that they are with you, using that movement as a pretext to push their own ends, which was the original crux of the argument that led into this discussion.


Apparently if you tie yourself to anything then you're immediately part of that anything, even if that anything is fiercely rejecting you. :think:

Disgraces wrote:No, I believe homosexuality is a mental illness (not that it's a bad thing, obviously), and I think it should be common sense.

The APA and the DSM-V would love to have a word with you.


The perceptions others have for you are more important than the perceptions that one fosters towards themselves. Meaningful change doesn't happen without popular support, and political elements are often associated with their most extreme fringes.
Veritas Aequitas

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Disgraces
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Democratic Socialists

Postby Disgraces » Tue Feb 23, 2021 2:13 am

Chuukango wrote:
Disgraces wrote:No, I believe homosexuality is a mental illness (not that it's a bad thing, obviously), and I think it should be common sense.

To call something an illness implies it is harmful or that the person suffering is "sick" in some way, does it not? With that in mind- how do you perceive homosexuality to be a mental illness?

Just because humans are "designed" to be heterosexual.

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Picairn
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Founded: Feb 21, 2020
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Picairn » Tue Feb 23, 2021 2:13 am

Palmyrion wrote:For tradcons, they're also morally repugnant, right up there with homosexuality, transsexuality, the sort.

Then they have a broken moral compass.

Imagine placing homosexuality alongside the two scourges of the human race: slavery and genocide.
Picairn's Ministry of Foreign Relations
Minister: Edward H. Cornell
WA Ambassador: John M. Terry (Active)
Factbook | Constitution | Newspaper
Albrenia wrote:With great power comes great mockability.

Salus Maior wrote:Nothing we say here actually matters.

Moralityland wrote:big corporations allied with the communist elite
Center-left liberal, or "neoliberal scum"
according to the far-left and far-right.
Listen here Jack, we're going to destroy malarkey.

♔ The Empire of Picairn ♔
-✯ ✯ ✯ ✯ ✯-—————————-✯ ✯ ✯ ✯ ✯-
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Palmyrion
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Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Palmyrion » Tue Feb 23, 2021 2:13 am

Disgraces wrote:
Daarwyrth wrote:Excuse me, mental illness? You call homosexuality a mental illness? And make the claim you're not homophobic? I guess you missed the memo about the WHO coming to their senses and scrapping homosexuality from the list of mental illnesses... sadly, I don't think there is any hope for you that you'll come to yours.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4771012/
Read this. Ignore the religious bullshit if there is any.

So, ignore the very thing that makes the piece sus and not to be taken seriously.

That's...not an argument.
Palmyrion is here to kick ass and chew bubblegum. And he's out of bubblegum.

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Daarwyrth
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Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Daarwyrth » Tue Feb 23, 2021 2:13 am

Disgraces wrote:
Picairn wrote:Did I hear a Freudian slip?

No, I believe homosexuality is a mental illness (not that it's a bad thing, obviously), and I think it should be common sense.

Thankfully it isn't. Thankfully the scientific community disagrees with you as well as the WHO. Seriously, I strongly suggest you try to grow emotionally and mentally, because calling homosexuality a mental illness is ignorance at its peak. It is hateful, it is harmful, and it is wrong.
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Punished UMN
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Psychotic Dictatorship

Postby Punished UMN » Tue Feb 23, 2021 2:14 am

Palmyrion wrote:
Picairn wrote:Does Tradcons have a similar quote for slavery or genocide? Or racism?

For tradcons, they're also morally repugnant, right up there with homosexuality, transsexuality, the sort.

There are traditionalist conservative arguments for gay and trans rights.
Eastern Orthodox Christian. Prudish. Low-key bisexual. Purgatorial universalist.
Ascended beyond politics, now metapolitics is my best friend. Absolute pacifist. Proud member of the Napoleon Bonaparte fandom.
I have borderline personality disorder, if I overreact to something, try to approach me after the fact and I'll apologize.
The political compass is like hell: if you find yourself on in it, keep going.
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Daarwyrth
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Founded: Jul 05, 2016
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Daarwyrth » Tue Feb 23, 2021 2:15 am

Disgraces wrote:
Daarwyrth wrote:Excuse me, mental illness? You call homosexuality a mental illness? And make the claim you're not homophobic? I guess you missed the memo about the WHO coming to their senses and scrapping homosexuality from the list of mental illnesses... sadly, I don't think there is any hope for you that you'll come to yours.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4771012/
Read this. Ignore the religious bullshit if there is any.

The fact that there is religious bullshit in it makes this very piece bullshit. I will not read such a harmful and disrespectful piece.
Last edited by Daarwyrth on Tue Feb 23, 2021 2:15 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Palmyrion
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Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Palmyrion » Tue Feb 23, 2021 2:16 am

Hjallvinter wrote:
Palmyrion wrote:Apparently if you tie yourself to anything then you're immediately part of that anything, even if that anything is fiercely rejecting you. :think:


The APA and the DSM-V would love to have a word with you.


The perceptions others have for you are more important than the perceptions that one fosters towards themselves. Meaningful change doesn't happen without popular support, and political elements are often associated with their most extreme fringes.

Man, this smells like...*sniffs*

Nutpicking.

Disgraces wrote:
Chuukango wrote:To call something an illness implies it is harmful or that the person suffering is "sick" in some way, does it not? With that in mind- how do you perceive homosexuality to be a mental illness?

Just because humans are "designed" to be heterosexual.

Finally, someone who condensed my evolutionary fitness argument in support of homophobia. !/s

Picairn wrote:
Palmyrion wrote:For tradcons, they're also morally repugnant, right up there with homosexuality, transsexuality, the sort.

Then they have a broken moral compass.

Imagine placing homosexuality alongside the two scourges of the human race: slavery and genocide.

For them, they place "sexual immorality" alongside said scourges.
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Kowani
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Democratic Socialists

Postby Kowani » Tue Feb 23, 2021 2:16 am

]
Disgraces wrote:
Chuukango wrote:To call something an illness implies it is harmful or that the person suffering is "sick" in some way, does it not? With that in mind- how do you perceive homosexuality to be a mental illness?

Just because humans are "designed" to be heterosexual.

They're not
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Palmyrion
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Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Palmyrion » Tue Feb 23, 2021 2:16 am

Punished UMN wrote:
Palmyrion wrote:For tradcons, they're also morally repugnant, right up there with homosexuality, transsexuality, the sort.

There are traditionalist conservative arguments for gay and trans rights.

Oh cool, give me one. Or maybe all of them.

Aside from the oft-used "defence of individual liberty" and "respect of people", of course.
Last edited by Palmyrion on Tue Feb 23, 2021 2:17 am, edited 1 time in total.
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PALMYRION: RESURGENT (Greater Dienstadi Canon) | Q&A Thread | 【PALMYRIAWAVE】
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Disgraces
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Founded: Apr 07, 2020
Democratic Socialists

Postby Disgraces » Tue Feb 23, 2021 2:17 am

Daarwyrth wrote:
Disgraces wrote:https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4771012/
Read this. Ignore the religious bullshit if there is any.

The fact that there is religious bullshit in it makes this very piece bullshit. I will not read such a harmful and disrespectful piece.

Iirc it didn't have anything religious, but it comes from a religious school or whatever so I said that in advance. If it has anything religious it's something like "using protection is bad". I really recommend you to read it.

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Chuukango
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Founded: Mar 02, 2015
Scandinavian Liberal Paradise

Postby Chuukango » Tue Feb 23, 2021 2:17 am

Kowani wrote:]
Disgraces wrote:Just because humans are "designed" to be heterosexual.

They're not

Homosexuality and homosexual relationships aren't human exclusive either- I believe bonobos are the primates that also engage in sexual activities with all sorts and combinations of partners.
Tl;Dr Gay monkeys (kind of)
Last edited by Chuukango on Tue Feb 23, 2021 2:18 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Punished UMN
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Psychotic Dictatorship

Postby Punished UMN » Tue Feb 23, 2021 2:18 am

The definition of "mental illness" is much less scientific than one would think and is nebulous enough that, in some cultures, you could probably classify some LGBT stuff as it (because it inhibits functioning within those cultures), though within the context of the contemporary Western world, it's not and you could potentially even make a greater argument for including homophobia as a form of mental illness within our own societies (though I think that's a can of worms that shouldn't be opened).
Eastern Orthodox Christian. Prudish. Low-key bisexual. Purgatorial universalist.
Ascended beyond politics, now metapolitics is my best friend. Absolute pacifist. Proud member of the Napoleon Bonaparte fandom.
I have borderline personality disorder, if I overreact to something, try to approach me after the fact and I'll apologize.
The political compass is like hell: if you find yourself on in it, keep going.
Pro: The fundamental dignitas of the human spirit as expressed through its self-actualization in theosis. Anti: Faustian-Demonic Space Anarcho-Capitalism with Italo-Futurist Characteristics

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Disgraces
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Founded: Apr 07, 2020
Democratic Socialists

Postby Disgraces » Tue Feb 23, 2021 2:18 am

Kowani wrote:]
Disgraces wrote:Just because humans are "designed" to be heterosexual.

They're not

How come humans reproduce heterosexually, then?

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Miku the Based
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Founded: Dec 03, 2020
Psychotic Dictatorship

Postby Miku the Based » Tue Feb 23, 2021 2:18 am

Hjallvinter wrote:
Agreed. Kin selection by gay uncles doesn't exist.

"rely on a influx of converts"

no thanks, this isn't even an argument


What is the Replication Crisis?

Yeah, that study took litteraly one tribe which seems specifically like a culture thing where they subjugate a set of males into the caregiver role and then tries to extrapolate that to all non-western cultures. Secondly it's irrelevant to the argument I was trying to make. Being kinder to kin does not make any difference in reproductive success especially if one can't even attempt to reproduce in the first place which I assume these are Eunuchs.
Hint: These people can be very violent in eastern cultures. Consider the Eunuch surpression of the yellow turban rebellion.
Last edited by Miku the Based on Tue Feb 23, 2021 2:19 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Palmyrion
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Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Palmyrion » Tue Feb 23, 2021 2:20 am

Disgraces wrote:
Daarwyrth wrote:The fact that there is religious bullshit in it makes this very piece bullshit. I will not read such a harmful and disrespectful piece.

Iirc it didn't have anything religious, but it comes from a religious school or whatever so I said that in advance. If it has anything religious it's something like "using protection is bad". I really recommend you to read it.

The religious bias of the publisher itself, who writes for the Catholic Medical Association, is religious (it's on the name, duh). I've read it cover to cover, and the religious bias is written all over it.
Palmyrion is here to kick ass and chew bubblegum. And he's out of bubblegum.

PALMYRION: RESURGENT (Greater Dienstadi Canon) | Q&A Thread | 【PALMYRIAWAVE】
Diplomatic Outreach Programme | The Dozen Giants | Civilian Storefront | Military Storefront
HERE BE MY REAL-LIFE PERCEPTIONS AND BELIEFS. YOU HAVE BEEN WARNED.

For those who are struggling right now, remember that you are not alone.

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