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US Dep of Defense Limits Flag Use

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Anti Defense League
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Postby Anti Defense League » Sun Aug 02, 2020 1:59 am

-Astoria- wrote:
Anti Defense League wrote:
Why
Read it again.


The issue was not one of comprehension; as I said, why is it justified.

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-Astoria-
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Postby -Astoria- » Sun Aug 02, 2020 2:15 am

Anti Defense League wrote:
-Astoria- wrote:Read it again.


The issue was not one of comprehension; as I said, why is it justified.
It's very simple;
  • Confederate flag - used as symbol by traitors during the Civil War
  • modern use - hate groups (& some terrorist organisations)
  • ergo, justified to prohibit it on federal property
.

Do you comprehend now?

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Anti Defense League
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Postby Anti Defense League » Sun Aug 02, 2020 2:40 am

-Astoria- wrote:
Anti Defense League wrote:
The issue was not one of comprehension; as I said, why is it justified.
It's very simple;
  • Confederate flag - used as symbol by traitors during the Civil War
  • modern use - hate groups (& some terrorist organisations)
  • ergo, justified to prohibit it on federal property
.

Do you comprehend now?


Let me ask again: why?

I understand what you're saying, I'm asking as to the conclusion.

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-Astoria-
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Postby -Astoria- » Sun Aug 02, 2020 2:46 am

Anti Defense League wrote:
-Astoria- wrote:It's very simple;
  • Confederate flag - used as symbol by traitors during the Civil War
  • modern use - hate groups (& some terrorist organisations)
  • ergo, justified to prohibit it on federal property
.

Do you comprehend now?


Let me ask again: why?

I understand what you're saying, I'm asking as to the conclusion.
...as in?

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Anti Defense League
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Postby Anti Defense League » Sun Aug 02, 2020 2:46 am

-Astoria- wrote:
Anti Defense League wrote:
Let me ask again: why?

I understand what you're saying, I'm asking as to the conclusion.
...as in?


"justified to prohibit it on federal property"

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-Astoria-
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Postby -Astoria- » Sun Aug 02, 2020 2:52 am

Anti Defense League wrote:"justified to prohibit it on federal property"
...because it represents the traitors to the Union who fought under that flag?
Lemme give an example; imagine a German embassy allowing its employees to fly swastika flags.

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Anti Defense League
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Postby Anti Defense League » Sun Aug 02, 2020 2:53 am

-Astoria- wrote:
Anti Defense League wrote:"justified to prohibit it on federal property"
...because it represents the traitors to the Union who fought under that flag?
Lemme give an example; imagine a German embassy allowing its employees to fly swastika flags.


Okay, and?

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Postby SD_Film Artists » Sun Aug 02, 2020 3:07 am

The New California Republic wrote:
SD_Film Artists wrote:As for the rainbow flag, I'd like to see the look of Jihadis when they get routed by a 'gay tank'.
"We fight hard... and play hard"

There actually is precedent. US forces in Korea and Vietnam often painted fierce lion faces on the front of their tanks because they thought Asians were backwards and generally superstitious and thus be afraid of the drawings. It's total nonsense of course, and thus they weren't afraid of the drawings at all.

But maybe the LGBT flag would make the Jihadis afraid.


Interesting, I had previously thought it was like those shark jaws that are on some aircraft but taken a bit too far.
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Postby The Huskar Social Union » Sun Aug 02, 2020 3:15 am

This wont do, we need more flags. Not less.
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Postby -Astoria- » Sun Aug 02, 2020 3:23 am

Anti Defense League wrote:
-Astoria- wrote:...because it represents the traitors to the Union who fought under that flag?
Lemme give an example; imagine a German embassy allowing its employees to fly swastika flags.


Okay, and?

..."and"?
How much more do I need to further simplify the point?

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Postby The New California Republic » Sun Aug 02, 2020 3:24 am

SD_Film Artists wrote:
The New California Republic wrote:There actually is precedent. US forces in Korea and Vietnam often painted fierce lion faces on the front of their tanks because they thought Asians were backwards and generally superstitious and thus be afraid of the drawings. It's total nonsense of course, and thus they weren't afraid of the drawings at all.

But maybe the LGBT flag would make the Jihadis afraid.


Interesting, I had previously thought it was like those shark jaws that are on some aircraft but taken a bit too far.

It was actually much less common in Vietnam, as I think the tank crews realized that nobody was going to be intimidated by lion/tiger paintings on the front of the tank. I have seen photos of the earliest contingents of US troops arriving in Vietnam having them on their tanks, but by about 1968 they seem to have disappeared completely.
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Anti Defense League
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Postby Anti Defense League » Sun Aug 02, 2020 3:27 am

-Astoria- wrote:
Anti Defense League wrote:
Okay, and?

..."and"?
How much more do I need to further simplify the point?


As I've said repeatedly, I understand the point you're trying to make, the logical conclusions don't follow however.
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-Astoria-
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Postby -Astoria- » Sun Aug 02, 2020 3:30 am

Anti Defense League wrote:
-Astoria- wrote:..."and"?
How much more do I need to further simplify the point?


As I've said repeatedly, I understanding the point you're trying to make, the logical conclusions don't follow however.
Elaborate, please.

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Anti Defense League
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Postby Anti Defense League » Sun Aug 02, 2020 3:32 am

-Astoria- wrote:
Anti Defense League wrote:
As I've said repeatedly, I understanding the point you're trying to make, the logical conclusions don't follow however.
Elaborate, please.


I really don't know how else I can phrase it.

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-Astoria-
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Postby -Astoria- » Sun Aug 02, 2020 3:34 am

Anti Defense League wrote:
-Astoria- wrote:Elaborate, please.


I really don't know how else I can phrase it.
OK; then how is it supposedly not a logical conclusion?

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Anti Defense League
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Postby Anti Defense League » Sun Aug 02, 2020 3:42 am

-Astoria- wrote:
Anti Defense League wrote:
I really don't know how else I can phrase it.
OK; then how is it supposedly not a logical conclusion?


It's bad therefore it must be banned.

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The Two Jerseys
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Postby The Two Jerseys » Sun Aug 02, 2020 6:42 am

Jedi Council wrote:
The Two Jerseys wrote:So just like the British did in 1812-14...

Neither are the British today, so I'm not sure what you're trying to prove here.


Oh lord, are you really trying to use the War of 1812 as evidence the British wanted to reconquer America? And to ensure slavery remained? Because if so I suggest you do some more research because both of those claims are entirely false.

Yes, the British have fought wars with the Americans, just like the Germans. But for the last few generations, they have been America's staunchest allies.

The Confederates are defeated traitors not merely enemies or rivals. They wanted to keep an entire race in bondage. That was their raison d'etre. Why would any well adjusted person, anyone who claims to be a patriot, or anyone who values equality fly any flag associated with the Confederacy?

The immediate cause of the War of 1812 was to stop the British from kidnapping Americans and forcing them to serve in the Royal Navy.

You knows, to stop the British from treating human beings like property...
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Postby The Reformed American Republic » Sun Aug 02, 2020 6:56 am

I agree with the ban on confederate flags. Why would or should the U.S. army respect traitors who fought against them? It's not even like the Confederates had a good cause.
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Postby Evacillian » Sun Aug 02, 2020 11:00 am

As the discussions in this forum has evolved :) , the topic of why the Confederate States of America should be honored or dishonored has been brought up. Here are some points to consider.

1) Combined, President Abraham Lincoln and President Andrew Johnson gave full pardon for and restoration of property to all those on the losing side. The Compromise of 1877 is proof that the Former Confederate States were to be treated once again like regular States of the Union.
2) Respecting the losing side (the inferior) is considered honorable and true. The Confederate States of America and those who fought for it are honoured for their valor. The Confederate States of America did what the Constitution encouraged them to do, which was to rebel against a government which they believed was oppressive. This honour is seen as how the Union treat the dead Confederate soldiers till this day.
https://uscode.house.gov/view.xhtml?req=granuleid:USC-prelim-title38-section2306&num=0&edition=prelim
3) Flags are symbols that can be interpreted in a variety of ways. These interpretations are made by individuals whose ideas can contradict with other individuals.

How many different interpretations do you think the Flag of the United States of America has garnered over the years in the billions of people who have seen it? In how many ways has the Flag of the United States of America been used by groups and individuals, American and Non-American? Personally, I don't think I would be able to successfully count. What I do know, is that each interpretation and display of any flag is a right that individuals should be able to make. It is not my right to take, damage, or destroy another's property just because I find the flag they wave to be offensive.
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Postby Organized States » Sun Aug 02, 2020 11:06 am

Evacillian wrote:As the discussions in this forum has evolved :) , the topic of why the Confederate States of America should be honored or dishonored has been brought up. Here are some points to consider.

1) Combined, President Abraham Lincoln and President Andrew Johnson gave full pardon for and restoration of property to all those on the losing side. The Compromise of 1877 is proof that the Former Confederate States were to be treated once again like regular States of the Union.
2) Respecting the losing side (the inferior) is considered honorable and true. The Confederate States of America and those who fought for it are honoured for their valor. The Confederate States of America did what the Constitution encouraged them to do, which was to rebel against a government which they believed was oppressive. This honour is seen as how the Union treat the dead Confederate soldiers till this day.
https://uscode.house.gov/view.xhtml?req=granuleid:USC-prelim-title38-section2306&num=0&edition=prelim
3) Flags are symbols that can be interpreted in a variety of ways. These interpretations are made by individuals whose ideas can contradict with other individuals.

How many different interpretations do you think the Flag of the United States of America has garnered over the years in the billions of people who have seen it? In how many ways has the Flag of the United States of America been used by groups and individuals, American and Non-American? Personally, I don't think I would be able to successfully count. What I do know, is that each interpretation and display of any flag is a right that individuals should be able to make. It is not my right to take, damage, or destroy another's property just because I find the flag they wave to be offensive.

Except we shouldn't honor them. They betrayed the United States. We don't honor Benedict Arnold for his valor. We shouldn't honor Confederates either.

Also, the military suspends any number of personal rights and liberties in pursuit of good order and discipline.
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Postby Thermodolia » Sun Aug 02, 2020 11:07 am

Evacillian wrote:As the discussions in this forum has evolved :) , the topic of why the Confederate States of America should be honored or dishonored has been brought up. Here are some points to consider.

1) Combined, President Abraham Lincoln and President Andrew Johnson gave full pardon for and restoration of property to all those on the losing side. The Compromise of 1877 is proof that the Former Confederate States were to be treated once again like regular States of the Union.

That doesn’t include the CSA or Its flag. Lincoln and Co never acknowledged that the CSA was a thing. To the Union the states in the CSA never left.
2) Respecting the losing side (the inferior) is considered honorable and true.

Bullfuckingshit. Slavers get no respect
The Confederate States of America and those who fought for it are honoured for their valor. The Confederate States of America did what the Constitution encouraged them to do, which was to rebel against a government which they believed was oppressive.

The constitution doesn’t say anything of the sort. And besides telling people not to own humans isn’t being oppressive it’s ending oppression.

3) Flags are symbols that can be interpreted in a variety of ways. These interpretations are made by individuals whose ideas can contradict with other individuals.

And the flags of traitors don’t get to be in US military bases.

How many different interpretations do you think the Flag of the United States of America has garnered over the years in the billions of people who have seen it? In how many ways has the Flag of the United States of America been used by groups and individuals, American and Non-American? Personally, I don't think I would be able to successfully count. What I do know, is that each interpretation and display of any flag is a right that individuals should be able to make. It is not my right to take, damage, or destroy another's property just because I find the flag they wave to be offensive.

The flag of traitors doesn’t get to fly. I’m so sorry that you don’t get to fly your beloved traitorous flag but that’s what happens when you lose
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Postby The Two Jerseys » Sun Aug 02, 2020 11:26 am

Organized States wrote:We don't honor Benedict Arnold for his valor.

*cough cough*
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Postby Organized States » Sun Aug 02, 2020 11:30 am

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Postby The Emerald Legion » Sun Aug 02, 2020 11:33 am

-Astoria- wrote:
Anti Defense League wrote:"justified to prohibit it on federal property"
...because it represents the traitors to the Union who fought under that flag?
Lemme give an example; imagine a German embassy allowing its employees to fly swastika flags.


Germany doesn't have freedom of speech or expression however. We do.
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Organized States
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Postby Organized States » Sun Aug 02, 2020 11:35 am

The Emerald Legion wrote:
-Astoria- wrote:...because it represents the traitors to the Union who fought under that flag?
Lemme give an example; imagine a German embassy allowing its employees to fly swastika flags.


Germany doesn't have freedom of speech or expression however. We do.

Neither do members of Armed Services and the US Department of Defense.
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"In the old days, the navigators used magic to make themselves strong, but now, nothing; they just pray. Before they leave and at sea, they pray. But I, I make myself strong by thinking—just by thinking! I make myself strong because I despise cowardice. Too many men are afraid of the sea. But I am a navigator."-Mau Piailug
"I regret that I have only one life to give to my island." -Ricardo Bordallo, 2nd Governor of Guam
"Both are voyages of exploration. Hōkūle‘a is in the past, Columbia is in the future." -Colonel Charles L. Veach, USAF, Astronaut and Navigation Enthusiast

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