Trump to delay the election

[Kannap]

Fat fucking chance, kek.

Dude's entire presidency has been him idling around being a muppet.

Not really a muppet more of a puppet

to be fair, the muppets are puppets.

[Katganistan]

And what of the Diebold voting machines that were pre-loaded with votes?
The "hanging chads" of the election in Florida?

Again, if one idea is bad that does not make other ideas any less bad. The heat of an oven does not make the sun less hot.
And yes, I am saying voting machines are a bad idea as well. Shocking, I know. The proper way to vote is via paper ballots and sealed boxes. That way the only ones that can cheat are the people counting. As it should be.

There is no reason to delay the election, and no reason to prevent a mail-in vote alongside the in-person vote. There was voter fraud caught with in-person voting.

Voter fraud ALWAYS happens. It happens even here in the civilized world. What matters is making it difficult to do so that it's done less.
It's the same logic as with any other crime. You can't stop it all. But you can reduce the incidence.

Mail-in voting has been done since the Civil War, and is commonly done with little to no fraud for Americans who are out of the country for the election, as well as in some states. The claim is unsubstantiated.

Suicide by knife has been done since the stone age. Is still stupid.

I'll just leave what you wrote highlighted, because that you favor a method that is even MORE rife with the possibility of deliberate tampering is just fantastic.

[Aureumterra]

What do you think? I want him to keep his promise of making america great again. He is a puppet of whoever tells him what to do at this point whether it would be other members of his cabinet or the military

The idea of making America great again implies America was ever great in the past and *wildly gestures arms at history*

Not many countries can claim to have defeated global fascism, communism, and monarchism in a short history (250 years isn’t much compared to most countries)

[Vassenor]

The idea of making America great again implies America was ever great in the past and *wildly gestures arms at history*

Not many countries can claim to have defeated global fascism, communism, and monarchism in a short history (250 years isn’t much compared to most countries)

Mostly by riding on the Soviet Union's coat tails.

[Atheris]

Not many countries can claim to have defeated global fascism, communism, and monarchism in a short history (250 years isn’t much compared to most countries)

Mostly by riding on the Soviet Union's coat tails.

...Huh? Germany lost WW2 on September 1, 1939, though.

Also, World War 1. Japan, in WW2. The Spanish-American War. D-Day (which was an American plan, mind you). Operation Torch. The Cold War.

[Katganistan]

The idea of making America great again implies America was ever great in the past and *wildly gestures arms at history*

Not many countries can claim to have defeated global fascism, communism, and monarchism in a short history (250 years isn’t much compared to most countries)

There are facist nations and leaders, communism has not been eradicated, and I am pretty sure there are still kingdoms so...........

[Vassenor]

Mostly by riding on the Soviet Union's coat tails.

...Huh? Germany lost WW2 on September 1, 1939, though.

Also, World War 1. Japan, in WW2. The Spanish-American War. D-Day (which was an American plan, mind you). Operation Torch. The Cold War.

OK?

[Vassenor]

Not many countries can claim to have defeated global fascism, communism, and monarchism in a short history (250 years isn’t much compared to most countries)

There are facist nations and leaders, communism has not been eradicated, and I am pretty sure there are still kingdoms so...........

Also I'm still waiting for someone to explain when and how America stopped being Great.

[Katganistan]

There are facist nations and leaders, communism has not been eradicated, and I am pretty sure there are still kingdoms so...........

Also I'm still waiting for someone to explain when and how America stopped being Great.

When we let the darkies, women, and workers get uppity, clearly. /s
Please ffs it IS sarcasm.

[Vassenor]

Also I'm still waiting for someone to explain when and how America stopped being Great.

When we let the darkies, women, and workers get uppity, clearly. /s
Please ffs it IS sarcasm.

I mean given the views of some hardcore Trumpists it wouldn't shock me if the response ended up being "this but unironically".

[The Black Forrest]

Also I'm still waiting for someone to explain when and how America stopped being Great.

When we let the darkies, women, and workers get uppity, clearly. /s
Please ffs it IS sarcasm.

I know it started going to hell when we gave women the right to vote!

[Kannap]

The idea of making America great again implies America was ever great in the past and *wildly gestures arms at history*

Not many countries can claim to have defeated global fascism, communism, and monarchism in a short history (250 years isn’t much compared to most countries)

Defeating the Axis powers during WW2 wasn't something we did by ourselves, we don't get sole credit for that.

Any victory you may think "defeating communism" was is negated by the overwhelming amount of war crimes, terrorism, and atrocities we committed during that time.

And a revolution for our independence is no big deal in the grand scheme of nations, everybody's done it.

Nonetheless, none of these things inherently make us great, especially when you have to see all the awful things we've done or have been throughout history.

[Kannap]

There are facist nations and leaders, communism has not been eradicated, and I am pretty sure there are still kingdoms so...........

Also I'm still waiting for someone to explain when and how America stopped being Great.

Looks like we've got three different ideas circulating around here:

1. America was once great and needs to be made great again.

2. America was never great (but could probably be made a great place to live)

3. America has always been and is great.

[Organized States]

Not many countries can claim to have defeated global fascism, communism, and monarchism in a short history (250 years isn’t much compared to most countries)

Defeating the Axis powers during WW2 wasn't something we did by ourselves, we don't get sole credit for that.

We did defeat Japan almost entirely by ourselves. While China did suck up a huge amount of Japanese troop strength and resources, the United States did almost all of the heavy lifting and fighting in the Pacific War.

[Organized States]

Also I'm still waiting for someone to explain when and how America stopped being Great.

Looks like we've got three different ideas circulating around here:

1. America was once great and needs to be made great again.

2. America was never great (but could probably be made a great place to live)

3. America has always been and is great.

Your second point is ironically the opinion held by most of the founders of the United States. Hence the term, American Experiment...

[Vassenor]

Also I'm still waiting for someone to explain when and how America stopped being Great.

Looks like we've got three different ideas circulating around here:

1. America was once great and needs to be made great again.

2. America was never great (but could probably be made a great place to live)

3. America has always been and is great.

For MAGA to make sense as a slogan, America needs to have previously been great and have stopped being great. My question is about at what point this is supposed to have occurred and for what reason.

[Kannap]

Looks like we've got three different ideas circulating around here:

1. America was once great and needs to be made great again.

2. America was never great (but could probably be made a great place to live)

3. America has always been and is great.

Your second point is ironically the opinion held by most of the founders of the United States. Hence the term, American Experiment...

My second point is unironically the opinion I hold now.

[Kannap]

Looks like we've got three different ideas circulating around here:

1. America was once great and needs to be made great again.

2. America was never great (but could probably be made a great place to live)

3. America has always been and is great.

For MAGA to make sense as a slogan, America needs to have previously been great and have stopped being great. My question is about at what point this is supposed to have occurred and for what reason.

My answer: It never occurred, because America has never been great.

[Organized States]

Looks like we've got three different ideas circulating around here:

1. America was once great and needs to be made great again.

2. America was never great (but could probably be made a great place to live)

3. America has always been and is great.

For MAGA to make sense as a slogan, America needs to have previously been great and have stopped being great. My question is about at what point this is supposed to have occurred and for what reason.

America is a great country to live in.

Sure, we have our problems and we're working on correcting them, but honestly, for most of the Trump Crowd, the moment America stopped being great was when Reagan left office. I've seen an almost absurd devotion to this weirdly aggressive version of 80s Conservatism that causes most Trumpers to rally behind him.

[The Archregimancy]

Defeating the Axis powers during WW2 wasn't something we did by ourselves, we don't get sole credit for that.

We did defeat Japan almost entirely by ourselves. While China did suck up a huge amount of Japanese troop strength and resources, the United States did almost all of the heavy lifting and fighting in the Pacific War.

Without in any way disputing the fact that the United States was dominant in the Pacific, did most of the heavy lifting in the Pacific theatre specifically, and absolutely deserves the majority of the credit for the defeat of Japan, Australians involved in the New Guinea campaign and British/Indian troops involved in the Burma campaign (the latter including my grandfather) might dispute the phrasing 'almost entirely by ourselves'. The acknowledgement of the Chinese role is welcome, though.

[La Xinga]

Looks like we've got three different ideas circulating around here:

1. America was once great and needs to be made great again.

2. America was never great (but could probably be made a great place to live)

3. America has always been and is great.

For MAGA to make sense as a slogan, America needs to have previously been great and have stopped being great. My question is about at what point this is supposed to have occurred and for what reason.

Probably Nixon time was great, we had factories, then no factories, then factories. If not IDK what that means.

[Phoenicaea]

i observe he will not let you vote, not as in the past, not with integrity.

[Fluvannia]

For MAGA to make sense as a slogan, America needs to have previously been great and have stopped being great. My question is about at what point this is supposed to have occurred and for what reason.

America is a great country to live in.

Sure, we have our problems and we're working on correcting them, but honestly, for most of the Trump Crowd, the moment America stopped being great was when Reagan left office. I've seen an almost absurd devotion to this weirdly aggressive version of 80s Conservatism that causes most Trumpers to rally behind him.

This is pretty much where I’m at. America has traditionally been pretty great for its time. If you’re going to judge 1850 America by 2020 standards, yeah, it’s gonna be pretty terrible. But compared to many nations in 1850, America was doing quite well. Two years previously a wave of democratic revolutions in Europe had been defeated, rather brutally in some cases. Yes, we still allowed slavery as a country, but given that even before 1850 there was a large contingent determined to change that means that at our most level-headed we knew it was wrong.

Even as a right-leaning person I have no idea what Trump is getting at, but I also don’t know if I care to try and understand him, either...

[Shofercia]

1. Fairly certain that claiming that asking Congress a mere question is unconstitutional is the clear cut example of idiotic criticism of President Trump; you're right, it was very easy to criticize his question as dumb, idiotic, moronic, etc, but Vass chose to criticize it as "unconstitutional" thus turning a legitimate criticism into an idiotic one
2. And when Bad Orange Man was talking about Obama's Birth Certificate, he was also acting like an idiot

1. https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2019/08/28/tan-suit-scandal-obama-trump/?utm_source=reddit.com
2. https://forum.nationstates.net/viewtopic.php?f=20&t=489272&p=37476814#p37476814
3. And he wasn't acting like an idiot when asking if he could delay elections because...?

Where did I say that he wasn't acting like an idiot? I said:

Fairly certain that claiming that asking Congress a mere question is unconstitutional is the clear cut example of idiotic criticism of President Trump; you're right, it was very easy to criticize his question as dumb, idiotic, moronic, etc, but Vass chose to criticize it as "unconstitutional" thus turning a legitimate criticism into an idiotic one

That was actually a response. To you!

Trump's actual tweet:



Do you see those question marks in the end Vass? In the English language, the question marks mean that he was asking, since the question mark denotes an inquiry or question, not a demand.

Yeah, I've wondered about that. I know what a question mark means. Three of them though?

You seem to speak Trump's language, perhaps you can explain why Trump seems to be casting doubt on his own question, and then casting doubt on that.

Also, why is his demand/request of Congress public? Why doesn't he pick up the phone to the Congressional leaders, ask them, and if the answer is "no" never say a word about it? Seems like what an adult would do.

Because President Trump conducts diplomacy and negotiations via Twitter, a tactic that I've criticized back when he publicly favored Saudi Arabia over Qatar, thus shocking the US Ambassador to Qatar, rather than going through official channels. Is this unusual? Highly. But it still doesn't make in unconstitutional.

"Orange Man Bad" is a phrase used to point out idiotic criticism of the President, like claiming that him asking a mere question is totally unconstitutional.

I still don't understand why you keep flogging this particular dead horse.

As previously noted, Vassenor was originally corrected on page 11 of this thread with clear reference to the relevant clauses of the US Constitution.

Vassenor then implicitly acknowledged her error on page 12 of the thread, in a reply to you. It would have been better if, for clarity, that acknowledgement had been made a bit more explicitly, but all the same she clearly realises she made a mistake with the original post.

Since then, though, you've spent 10 pages of this thread slamming Vassenor for a mistake that had already been corrected and which she quickly acknowledged.

I'm no great fan of Vassenor's posting style (as she can likely attest), but this does strike me as a particularly pointless use of time and energy even by the mighty standards of NSG.

I must respectfully disagree with your claim that Vass implicitly acknowledged that Vass was wrong. I don't view the post that you've linked to, as an acknowledgement, implicit or otherwise, of wrongdoing, because all Vass did was state a fact, without any apology, and/or statement of wrongdoing. Furthermore, it doesn't take me that long to respond to Vass. Also, posters keep on responding to me over this issue, so I respond to them.

Why did I initially care would've been a better inquiry, and it all goes to that word that Vass used, "unconstitutional" which was wrong. You're across the pond so it might not be as big of a deal to you, but in the US, I don't trust Congress to act responsibly, irrespective of which party is in charge, and nor do most Americans. If you remove, or even depower, the US Constitution, there's nothing stopping Congress from allying with the current president, irrespective of the political party in both cases, and doing whatever the fuck they want.

And there have been steps, by both political parties, to do so. Republicans tried it because they didn't like anchor babies, and I'm not a fan, but the law is the law, and Democrats tried it with the Electoral College, which also harms me as a Californian but the law is the law. And if the Supreme Law of the Land is treated as yet another measure of political bullshit, which is entirely possible since US Chief Justice John Roberts, who proclaimed to follow Natural Law, recently favored casinos over religious buildings in Nevada, and that's just the most recent example, with the Democrats talking about taxing wealth, so again, both sides actually hurting America, it matters.

President Trump is highly partisan. Democratic nominee Biden is also highly partisan. In order to win elections in the US, you need monetary funds, and the best way to raise those is by being highly partisan. So if you're going to imply that a highly partisan president acts in an unconstitutional manner, and then proceed to elect one highly partisan candidate after another, you're now bringing the US Constitution into play, where it can be hit politically yet again, resulting in damage to its prestige.

After my responses to Vass, how many NSGers will throw around the word "unconstitutional" as freely as Vass did? People learn, as do NSG posters. Most Liberal NSGers here want to take down President Trump, not to damage the US Constitution's prestige. And they can do so without damaging the prestige of the US Constitution. That's my objective here, because had Vass not used that single word in Vass' posts, I wouldn't have given two fucks about it. But I don't want to live in a lawless land, and without the US Constitution being respected as the Supreme Law of the Land, there'd be nothing stopping a country as highly polarized as the US, from taking the path of anarchy, or going on a path of civil war. Already happened once in the 1860s.

Remember the McCloskey Case? "Peaceful" demonstrated broke into a private community, and when owners threatens them with guns to live their private community, the attorney general of said state, whose election was funded by Soros' funds, filed a lawsuit against the couple, for defending their home. On the other hand you had a deranged lunatic chasing down a black guy in a hoodie, murdering him, and getting away with it. That's how divided the US is today. Remove the US Constitution, and what's the path to reconciliation? Answer me that, or get Vass to acknowledge Vass' mistake explicitly, and I'll gladly stop.

[Panslavicland]

I think its unfortunate that Republicans in Congress don't even seem to be willing to consider what seems to be a good suggestion from President Trump to delay the election in light of Democrats' repeated attempts to commit election fraud. I only hope now that some election security measures can be put in place before November, otherwise I see no reason why fraudulent results should be respected by the president and his team.