Coronavirus Thread IV: Legends, Laments and Lockdowns

[Nobel Hobos 2]

Probably even higher than that in reality, to be honest.

Americans seem to despise the government gaining information on them for any reason. So I doubt they'd even go for something as light on as contact-tracking wristbands which can be discarded after the pandemic's over.

Laffin, yeah you are right, that is a hard no for me.

Suppose you test positive and a doctor asks for you help tracking where you caught it from, and who you might have given it to.

Would you give ANY information at all? I don't mean phone tracking, just the name of your workplace or your gym?

[San Lumen]

It would be great if every state can reopen as successfully as Georgia, they’ve done a phenomenal job

I've seen their official figures and they do look good.

But tell me this: how long does a covid test take in Georgia?

I agree with this and I would assume the same as any other state.

Laffin, yeah you are right, that is a hard no for me.

Suppose you test positive and a doctor asks for you help tracking where you caught it from, and who you might have given it to.

Would you give ANY information at all? I don't mean phone tracking, just the name of your workplace or your gym?

If its my doctor asking that I wouldnt have much of an issue. I have an issue with the government tracking my every move via my phone

[Shrillland]

Laffin, yeah you are right, that is a hard no for me.

Suppose you test positive and a doctor asks for you help tracking where you caught it from, and who you might have given it to.

Would you give ANY information at all? I don't mean phone tracking, just the name of your workplace or your gym?

In retrospect, we should've done what several other nations have suggested and keep daily diaries of where you go and any individuals you may have gotten close to.

[Nobel Hobos 2]

https://thehill.com/homenews/state-watch/498567-dewine-lifts-last-of-ohios-stay-at-home-order

Ohio Governor Mike DeWine has lifted the last of mandatory restrictions in the state including a ban on large gatherings and is transitioning to strong recommendations

The Safe at Home” order will be replaced with an “Urgent Health Advisory.

Why did he lift the ban on large gatherings? That ought to be in place till there's a vaccine or something else that destroys covid entirely. I agree with lifting lockdowns but getting rid of all restrictions? Oh god Mike what are you doing? Fuck, and I'm just north of him.

This source disagrees

However, some key social-distancing rules, including a ban on most mass gatherings and restrictions on bars and restaurants, will remain mandatory.

So does this one

DeWine said some requirements and restrictions remain in place even after the state concluded that exceptions carved out to allow travel to more workplaces and stores had gutted large parts of the stay-at-home restrictions.

Virus-precaution mandates on reopened businesses remain in effect, such as employees wearing face masks, frequent cleaning of workplaces and six-foot social distancing among workers and customers.

And businesses and individuals still face a restriction on mass gatherings, which remain limited to 10 people or less, although DeWine said the number remains under review. Events that draw crowds will be among the last to receive the go-ahead to resume, the governor has said.

I read SL's source (The Hill) and it does say what he claims it does. I think however, The Hill is wrong.

[Nobel Hobos 2]

I've seen their official figures and they do look good.

But tell me this: how long does a covid test take in Georgia?

I agree with this and I would assume the same as any other state.

Um, Georgia has told lies before. So what I'd assume is that they're swabbing a lot of people to look like they're testing a lot (they were heavily criticized early for hardly testing at all), but all that swabbing has produced a huge backlog at the lab. The results we're seeing could be weeks old.

It must be said though, that other states are also lax in publishing the testing delay. It's actually vital to know.

[Rojava Free State]

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/mnuchi ... t-benefits

Well yall, you gotta choose starvation or COVID now.

[Trollgaard]

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/mnuchin-says-employees-who-reject-offer-to-return-to-work-are-ineligible-for-unemployment-benefits

Well yall, you gotta choose starvation or COVID now.

Nothing wrong with that....why should someone get unemployment when employment has been offered?

[Nobel Hobos 2]

Suppose you test positive and a doctor asks for you help tracking where you caught it from, and who you might have given it to.

Would you give ANY information at all? I don't mean phone tracking, just the name of your workplace or your gym?

In retrospect, we should've done what several other nations have suggested and keep daily diaries of where you go and any individuals you may have gotten close to.

Not bad. Phone tracking is going to be more comprehensive and precise.

Some idiot stumbled in the street and grasping in the air, brushed her hand across your face (dislodging your mask if you wore one). You remember this quite well, and you have no compunction about 'dobbing her in' as a possible source of your infection. But what the doctor really needs to know is that person's name. Did you ask for her name ..?

South Korea I heard early on used phone tracking on EVERYONE. But it seems they only used it on people known to be infected. No it wasn't with consent.

Fair enough we're not going to do that. Maybe it would be justified if the disease was more lethal, but it's a search without probable cause.

HOWEVER, people get a lot more reasonable when they're actually sick. They likely feel guilty about possibly spreading the virus. I'm sure a lot more people are willing to give over the detailed and uncensored version of where they've been the last two weeks, than when they're well and answering a hypothetical question for a pollster.

Hence Australia's covid-tracking ap. It collects the data and stores it on the user's own phone. The decision about whether to turn it over, they don't have to make until they're actually sick and a doctor asks them for the tracking information.

However, adoption of the ap seems to have stalled at just over 5 million (of 17 million phones). I think "I'll collect the data anyway and decide later if I release it" just isn't a trustworthy concept for most Australians.

[San Lumen]

In retrospect, we should've done what several other nations have suggested and keep daily diaries of where you go and any individuals you may have gotten close to.

Not bad. Phone tracking is going to be more comprehensive and precise.

Some idiot stumbled in the street and grasping in the air, brushed her hand across your face (dislodging your mask if you wore one). You remember this quite well, and you have no compunction about 'dobbing her in' as a possible source of your infection. But what the doctor really needs to know is that person's name. Did you ask for her name ..?

South Korea I heard early on used phone tracking on EVERYONE. But it seems they only used it on people known to be infected. No it wasn't with consent.

Fair enough we're not going to do that. Maybe it would be justified if the disease was more lethal, but it's a search without probable cause.

HOWEVER, people get a lot more reasonable when they're actually sick. They likely feel guilty about possibly spreading the virus. I'm sure a lot more people are willing to give over the detailed and uncensored version of where they've been the last two weeks, than when they're well and answering a hypothetical question for a pollster.

Hence Australia's covid-tracking ap. It collects the data and stores it on the user's own phone. The decision about whether to turn it over, they don't have to make until they're actually sick and a doctor asks them for the tracking information.

However, adoption of the ap seems to have stalled at just over 5 million (of 17 million phones). I think "I'll collect the data anyway and decide later if I release it" just isn't a trustworthy concept for most Australians.

There are potential 4th amendment concerns with this.

[Nobel Hobos 2]

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/mnuchin-says-employees-who-reject-offer-to-return-to-work-are-ineligible-for-unemployment-benefits

Well yall, you gotta choose starvation or COVID now.

Nothing wrong with that....why should someone get unemployment when employment has been offered?

The contract has changed: the work is now more dangerous than it was when they first signed the contract.

Choosing not to accept the "new" contract is not a voluntary quit. It is ending of the contract at no fault of the employee.

They should therefore be eligible for unemployment relief.

[Nobel Hobos 2]

Not bad. Phone tracking is going to be more comprehensive and precise.

Some idiot stumbled in the street and grasping in the air, brushed her hand across your face (dislodging your mask if you wore one). You remember this quite well, and you have no compunction about 'dobbing her in' as a possible source of your infection. But what the doctor really needs to know is that person's name. Did you ask for her name ..?

South Korea I heard early on used phone tracking on EVERYONE. But it seems they only used it on people known to be infected. No it wasn't with consent.

Fair enough we're not going to do that. Maybe it would be justified if the disease was more lethal, but it's a search without probable cause.

HOWEVER, people get a lot more reasonable when they're actually sick. They likely feel guilty about possibly spreading the virus. I'm sure a lot more people are willing to give over the detailed and uncensored version of where they've been the last two weeks, than when they're well and answering a hypothetical question for a pollster.

Hence Australia's covid-tracking ap. It collects the data and stores it on the user's own phone. The decision about whether to turn it over, they don't have to make until they're actually sick and a doctor asks them for the tracking information.

However, adoption of the ap seems to have stalled at just over 5 million (of 17 million phones). I think "I'll collect the data anyway and decide later if I release it" just isn't a trustworthy concept for most Australians.

There are potential 4th amendment concerns with this.

With voluntarily collecting information about yourself, then deciding later whether the turn it over? No ...

With South Korea's use of phone company records to track the past movements of people with covid? Quite possibly.

[Trollgaard]

Nothing wrong with that....why should someone get unemployment when employment has been offered?

The contract has changed: the work is now more dangerous than it was when they first signed the contract.

Choosing not to accept the "new" contract is not a voluntary quit. It is ending of the contract at no fault of the employee.

They should therefore be eligible for unemployment relief.

I don't know what an employment contract is.

Things change at work all the time. If someone doesn't like it find a new job, or talk with your employers. Most businesses seem to doing all they can provide PPE, cleaning products, etc to workers and customers...

if someone wants to sit on their ass an not work and they don't have a valid medical excuse...like a compromised immune system, or they're 70 or something, when their company has reopened then tough shit- they are choosing to not get a paycheck.

[Nobel Hobos 2]

The contract has changed: the work is now more dangerous than it was when they first signed the contract.

Choosing not to accept the "new" contract is not a voluntary quit. It is ending of the contract at no fault of the employee.

They should therefore be eligible for unemployment relief.

I don't know what an employment contract is.

Things change at work all the time. If someone doesn't like it find a new job, or talk with your employers. Most businesses seem to doing all they can provide PPE, cleaning products, etc to workers and customers...

if someone wants to sit on their ass an not work and they don't have a valid medical excuse...like a compromised immune system, or they're 70 or something, when their company has reopened then tough shit- they are choosing to not get a paycheck.

Mnuchin didn't say anything about an exception for compromised immune system (or being 70).

Treasury Secretary Steven Mnuchin warned on Tuesday that individuals who reject an offer from their company to return to work after being laid off due to coronavirus are no longer considered eligible to receive federal unemployment benefits.

Mnuchin said that companies receiving benefits under the Payroll Protection Program who are inviting employees who had been laid off or furloughed due to the coronavirus crisis to return to work should plan to notify state unemployment offices of their offers.

If the employee, in turn, turns down the job, they would then be considered ineligible to receive expanded unemployment benefits.

“If you offer a person a job..and that person does not take the job..then that person would not be allowed to get unemployment,” Mnuchin said Tuesday.

And imo it's not even necessary. I'd let people decide for themselves if the risk to themselves (or their spouse) is too great.

There's some other unemployed person who can take the job: that's one less getting unemployment payments. The person who just gave up their job because they don't like the higher level of risk (probably wasn't a great employee anyway) can take the payments instead, it's revenue neutral.

A person who doesn't want the job under new conditions get out of having to do it. Another person who really wants a job, gets a job. The government is no better or worse off. But there is of course a loser: the employer who now has to train up a new employee. In the short term that's bad for them, but it will pay off eventually.

Tell me why it's the government's role to punish the newly unemployed person, and what good in the long term it's going to do, to force a reluctant employee back into a job they no longer want? That's just government whoring for business.

[UniversalCommons]

The problem with the idea of more dangerous work is that all work with the public in many peoples minds right now is dangerous because they can get sick. The conditions which bring sickness are more prevalent in certain types of industry like meat packing where people are closely packed together or in the subway for example where you are in an enclosed space where the air does not circulate as much and may be more likely to get sick. These conditions did not exist before. Your industry is practically going bankrupt and you need a job. They can offer the same pay under different conditions-- maybe, they are changing the number of people on the line, or cleaning the subway regularly. There is no way for there to be a pay increase, they can pay for some safety, but the jobs are not changing. Do you get angry enough to eat the rich, demand more taxes so you can have the country run, or increase fees for a lot of things, or live with austerity. Neither answer will make most people happy. No one wants to sacrifice. People are fat at the top and lethargic at the bottom.

[San Lumen]

The problem with the idea of more dangerous work is that all work with the public in many peoples minds right now is dangerous because they can get sick. The conditions which bring sickness are more prevalent in certain types of industry like meat packing where people are closely packed together or in the subway for example where you are in an enclosed space where the air does not circulate as much and may be more likely to get sick. These conditions did not exist before. Your industry is practically going bankrupt and you need a job. They can offer the same pay under different conditions-- maybe, they are changing the number of people on the line, or cleaning the subway regularly. There is no way for there to be a pay increase, they can pay for some safety, but the jobs are not changing. Do you get angry enough to eat the rich, demand more taxes so you can have the country run, or increase fees for a lot of things, or live with austerity. Neither answer will make most people happy. No one wants to sacrifice. People are fat at the top and lethargic at the bottom.

and what would your solution be if your were Governor of your state?

[Blakk Metal]

So this is a thing....

https://imgur.com/gallery/GumZf8x

Proof we live in one of the worst timeliness. Absolute nightmare fuel.

Don't be sad; this pandemic will be last.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-05-19/covid-patients-testing-positive-after-recovery-aren-t-infectious

A new study says covid patients testing positive after recovery are not infectious. They are merely spreading dead virus particles

Does this mean they are vaccines now?

[San Lumen]

Proof we live in one of the worst timeliness. Absolute nightmare fuel.

Don't be sad; this pandemic will be last.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-05-19/covid-patients-testing-positive-after-recovery-aren-t-infectious

A new study says covid patients testing positive after recovery are not infectious. They are merely spreading dead virus particles

Does this mean they are vaccines now?

No it means what I said. They are not infectious

[Blakk Metal]

Don't be sad; this pandemic will be last.

Does this mean they are vaccines now?

No it means what I said. They are not infectious

Joke
Your head

[Nobel Hobos 2]

No it means what I said. They are not infectious

Joke
Your head

It was a stealth joke. It's there but no-one can see it.

Repost of SL's link regarding "reinfections"

The so-called re-positive patients weren’t found to have spread any lingering infection, and virus samples collected from them couldn’t be grown in culture, indicating the patients were shedding non-infectious or dead virus particles.

It makes sense. "Killing" or rendering harmless is the immune system's job, but it still takes time after that to excrete them all.

[Blakk Metal]

Joke
Your head

It was a stealth joke. It's there but no-one can see it.

It makes sense if you know how vaccines work.

[Italios]

so apparently, as far back as late march, a leading expert on communicable diseases, didier raoult claimed that hydroxychloroquine was an effective way to treat corona. he subsequently got bashed by other people in the medical community for this opinion - and also his general dismissal of the seriousness of the virus - but it makes me wonder about where trump is actually getting his information on corona. it's very clearly NOT from america because there's no way he would even associate with the word hydroxychloroquine when the FDA has warning labels plastered all over the drug. it should be noted raoult conducted tests with the drug independently form the french government.

"Il n'en démord pas. Malgré l'écho donné à la défiance politique et médicale concernant son essai clinique, le patron de l'IHU est convaincu de la pertinence de l'hydroxychloroquine pour traiter les patients atteints de Covid-19. Malgré la psychose médiatique et son décompte mortuaire quotidien, il le répète : on a plus de chance de mourir d'autre chose que du "coronavirus chinois". Alors qu'hier soir le président du Conseil scientifique Jean-François Delfraissy appelait solennellement à une stratégie de dépistage massif, Didier Raoult, lui, l'avait préconisée et mise en place dès l'arrivée des premiers rapatriés de Wuhan. Dans les couloirs de l'IHU, on glisse que dans cette crise sanitaire, "il a mis ses couilles sur la table". L'histoire dira si le détonnant Pr Raoult avait raison. Rencontre."
...
"Quid des effets secondaires du traitement à l'hydroxychloroquine ?
Pr Didier Raoult : Ce qu'on dit sur les effets secondaires est tout simplement délirant. Ce sont des gens qui n'ont pas ouvert un livre de médecine depuis des années. Plus d'un milliard de gens en ont bouffé, les personnes qui souffrent de lupus en prennent pendant des décennies... Je connais très bien ces médicaments, j'ai traité 4 000 personnes au Plaquénil depuis 20 ans. Ce n'est pas moi qui suis bizarre, ce sont les gens qui sont ignorants. On ne va pas m'apprendre la toxicité de ce médicament."
Le gouvernement a annoncé élargir les essais sur l'hydroxychloroquine mais par des équipes indépendantes de la vôtre, pourquoi ?
Pr Didier Raoult : C'est normal. Jusqu'il y a 30 ou 40 ans, en faisant face à des maladies qu'on soignait mal ou pas, la méthodologie, on s'en foutait un peu. Le premier type qui avait une infection à staphylocoque, on lui donnait de la pénicilline, il était guéri et tout le monde était content. Au fur et à mesure où l'on a été de plus en plus compétent, il a fallu faire des études en double aveugle, puis rendre publiques des données pour ne pas qu'il y ait des tricheurs, notamment en raison des enjeux financiers. Aujourd'hui, on sait par les Chinois que le portage moyen du virus est de 20 jours. Nous, nous avons les moyens de mesurer la charge virale, on voit qu'elle baisse, donc c'est que ça marche. On n'avait pas besoin de groupe témoin. Je suis content de l'élargissement des essais avec des médicaments, qui marchent, je suis juste un docteur. Si vous avez des doutes sur ma crédibilité, ce n'est pas mon problème. Il y a des gens soignés dans le monde entier, je ne me sens pas plus responsable des malades de Paris que de Corée. Ce seront les plus intelligents qui seront le mieux soignés. Je n'essaie pas d'être arrogant. Si les gens ne veulent pas regarder les chiffres, je n'y peux rien. Nous avons réalisé les 2/3 des tests de France, on a mis en place une machine de guerre. Après, on ne peut pas faire boire un âne qui n'a pas soif.

also - if anything, it seems like a weird hill for trump and his admin to die on that this is how you cure the disease. i had no idea hydroxychloroquine was playing into corona cures until trump mentioned it. i thought remdesivir, if anything, was the drug that was going to get tossed around as a viable cure. it's so weird. this guy is fucking bizarre.

[-Astoria]

-snip-

Translated:

"He does not budge. Despite the echo given to the political and medical distrust concerning his clinical trial, the boss of the IHU is convinced of the relevance of hydroxychloroquine to treat patients with Covid-19. Despite the media psychosis and its daily mortuary count, he repeats: we are more likely to die from something other than "Chinese coronavirus". While last night the president of the Scientific Council Jean-François Delfraissy solemnly called for a strategy Didier Raoult recommended mass screening and implemented it as soon as the first returnees arrived from Wuhan. In the corridors of the IHU, we slipped that in this health crisis, "he put his balls on the table ". History will tell if the explosive Professor Raoult was right."

"What about the side effects of treatment with hydroxychloroquine?

Raoult: What people say about side effects is simply delusional. These are people who haven't opened a medical book in years. Over a billion people have eaten it, people who suffer from lupus have been taking it for decades ... I know these drugs very well, I have treated 4,000 people with Plaquénil for 20 years. It's not me who's weird, it's people who are ignorant. I'm not going to be taught the toxicity of this drug. "

The government has announced that it will expand testing for hydroxychloroquine, but by teams independent of yours, why?

Raoult: It's normal. Until 30 or 40 years ago, when dealing with diseases that we treated badly or not, the methodology, we didn't care a bit. The first guy who had a staph infection, he was given penicillin, he was cured and everyone was happy. As we became more and more competent, we had to do double-blind studies, then make data public so that there were no cheaters, in particular because of the financial stakes. Today, we know from the Chinese that the average carrier of the virus is 20 days. We, we have the means to measure the viral load, we see that it decreases, so it works. We didn't need a control group. I'm happy with the expanded trials with drugs that work, I'm just a doctor. If you have any doubts about my credibility, this is not my problem. There are people treated all over the world, I do not feel more responsible for the sick in Paris than in Korea. It will be the most intelligent who will be the best cared for. I am not trying to be arrogant. If people don't want to look at the numbers, I can't help it. We carried out 2/3 of the tests in France, we set up a war machine. Afterwards, you cannot give a donkey who is not thirsty to drink.

[Nobel Hobos 2]

...

also - if anything, it seems like a weird hill for trump and his admin to die on that this is how you cure the disease. i had no idea hydroxychloroquine was playing into corona cures until trump mentioned it. i thought remdesivir, if anything, was the drug that was going to get tossed around as a viable cure. it's so weird. this guy is fucking bizarre.

The fewer potential cures or treatments he hears about the better. He'll end up taking two that have never in the history of medicine been in one body at the same time, start flying around the room like an untied balloon, and collapse all shrivelled-up in a corner.

[Austria-Bohemia-Hungary]

...

also - if anything, it seems like a weird hill for trump and his admin to die on that this is how you cure the disease. i had no idea hydroxychloroquine was playing into corona cures until trump mentioned it. i thought remdesivir, if anything, was the drug that was going to get tossed around as a viable cure. it's so weird. this guy is fucking bizarre.

The fewer potential cures or treatments he hears about the better. He'll end up taking two that have never in the history of medicine been in one body at the same time, start flying around the room like an untied balloon, and collapse all shrivelled-up in a corner.

Amidst all this one must question what the White House Physician is doing with his patient? *thinking*

[The Alma Mater]

The fewer potential cures or treatments he hears about the better. He'll end up taking two that have never in the history of medicine been in one body at the same time, start flying around the room like an untied balloon, and collapse all shrivelled-up in a corner.

Amidst all this one must question what the White House Physician is doing with his patient? *thinking*

He is giving Trumpo sugarpills claiming it is medicine, ofc.