NationStates

Galloism wrote:

Vassenor wrote:
And now you're throwing out non-sequitur statements because you got caught out.

Vass, there’s a lot of hypocrisy here - from Gauth, from you, from Joe Biden, and a lot of others. All you have to do is compare the reactions to the revelations regarding Kavanaugh (before we had an actual investigation) with the reactions of people regarding Biden today.

It was used as proof of guilt that Ford told a few people over the years before going public.
Well, so did Reade, but that’s now not proof of anything.
It was asserted that there is no reason for a woman like Ford to ever lie about this.
Well, Reade is a woman too.
There were multiple other reports of disturbing sexual behavior out of Kavanaugh, which was used as proof.
Well, those same accounts exist for Joe Biden.

You have to ask yourself why you instantly presumed Kavanaugh’s guilt based on these things, but are now studiously asking for evidence and proofs for Biden.

I’m happy you’re doing that for Biden, don’t get me wrong, but it should be the standard for everyone, not just everyone with a (D) after their name.

Vassenor wrote:

Galloism wrote:Vass, there’s a lot of hypocrisy here - from Gauth, from you, from Joe Biden, and a lot of others. All you have to do is compare the reactions to the revelations regarding Kavanaugh (before we had an actual investigation) with the reactions of people regarding Biden today.

It was used as proof of guilt that Ford told a few people over the years before going public.
Well, so did Reade, but that’s now not proof of anything.
It was asserted that there is no reason for a woman like Ford to ever lie about this.
Well, Reade is a woman too.
There were multiple other reports of disturbing sexual behavior out of Kavanaugh, which was used as proof.
Well, those same accounts exist for Joe Biden.

You have to ask yourself why you instantly presumed Kavanaugh’s guilt based on these things, but are now studiously asking for evidence and proofs for Biden.

I’m happy you’re doing that for Biden, don’t get me wrong, but it should be the standard for everyone, not just everyone with a (D) after their name.

So in other words you have nothing and were just gotcha hunting.

Vassenor wrote:

Galloism wrote:Vass, there’s a lot of hypocrisy here - from Gauth, from you, from Joe Biden, and a lot of others. All you have to do is compare the reactions to the revelations regarding Kavanaugh (before we had an actual investigation) with the reactions of people regarding Biden today.

It was used as proof of guilt that Ford told a few people over the years before going public.
Well, so did Reade, but that’s now not proof of anything.
It was asserted that there is no reason for a woman like Ford to ever lie about this.
Well, Reade is a woman too.
There were multiple other reports of disturbing sexual behavior out of Kavanaugh, which was used as proof.
Well, those same accounts exist for Joe Biden.

You have to ask yourself why you instantly presumed Kavanaugh’s guilt based on these things, but are now studiously asking for evidence and proofs for Biden.

I’m happy you’re doing that for Biden, don’t get me wrong, but it should be the standard for everyone, not just everyone with a (D) after their name.

So in other words you have nothing and were just gotcha hunting. Or can you actually point to where I said I don't believe her in no uncertain terms?

Galloism wrote:

Vassenor wrote:
So in other words you have nothing and were just gotcha hunting.

Presuming people want to learn, showing how their own systems, presuppositions, and priories are used against their interests (which should show how they are faulty) is a valuable teaching tool.

Sadly, the dependent clause above is not true of all people. Some prefer to remain untaught, and steadfastly refuse new information that challenges their presuppositions.

Just getting defensive and hurling accusations against others in lieu of stopping to think.

Uiiop wrote:

Vassenor wrote:
So in other words you have nothing and were just gotcha hunting. Or can you actually point to where I said I don't believe her in no uncertain terms?

Why be salty at a MRA if you're not questioning it?

I mean i don't think you are in this case but your rep has tarnished any reading of your tone even when it doesn't make sense.

Vassenor wrote:

Galloism wrote:Presuming people want to learn, showing how their own systems, presuppositions, and priories are used against their interests (which should show how they are faulty) is a valuable teaching tool.

Sadly, the dependent clause above is not true of all people. Some prefer to remain untaught, and steadfastly refuse new information that challenges their presuppositions.

Just getting defensive and hurling accusations against others in lieu of stopping to think.

You mean like you keep hurling accusations of hypocrisy at me because you can't accept I didn't say the thing you're adamant I said?

Galloism wrote:

Uiiop wrote:Why be salty at a MRA if you're not questioning it?

I mean i don't think you are in this case but your rep has tarnished any reading of your tone even when it doesn't make sense.

Despite Gauth’s insistence, I am not now nor have ever been an MRA. Gauth continues to call me that, despite my objections and requests to stop, because he’s trying to bait me into an angry response by smearing my commitment to gender equality.

He’s trying to trick me and others on it. It won’t work.

Galloism wrote:

Vassenor wrote:
And now you're throwing out non-sequitur statements because you got caught out.

Vass, there’s a lot of hypocrisy here - from Gauth, from you, from Joe Biden, and a lot of others. All you have to do is compare the reactions to the revelations regarding Kavanaugh (before we had an actual investigation) with the reactions of people regarding Biden today.

It was used as proof of guilt that Ford told a few people over the years before going public.
Well, so did Reade, but that’s now not proof of anything.
It was asserted that there is no reason for a woman like Ford to ever lie about this.
Well, Reade is a woman too.
There were multiple other reports of disturbing sexual behavior out of Kavanaugh, which was used as proof.
Well, those same accounts exist for Joe Biden.

You have to ask yourself why you instantly presumed Kavanaugh’s guilt based on these things, but are now studiously asking for evidence and proofs for Biden.

I’m happy you’re doing that for Biden, don’t get me wrong, but it should be the standard for everyone, not just everyone with a (D) after their name.

Uiiop wrote:

Vassenor wrote:
So in other words you have nothing and were just gotcha hunting. Or can you actually point to where I said I don't believe her in no uncertain terms?

Why be salty at a MRA if you're not questioning it?

I mean i don't think you are in this case but your rep has tarnished any reading of your tone even when it doesn't make sense.

Uiiop wrote:https://twitter.com/bfouhy/status/1243939889776861185?s=21
New york Primary is postponed until after june 2

Nobel Hobos 2 wrote:

Moscareinas wrote:i'm just here to raise one eyebrow at that title, don't mind me

I'm not happy with the slight implication of Biden catching it, but I think that's accidental. I think it's meant to mean COVID-19 is upstaging the election subject?

Let's suggest something better, I'm sure the OP will listen.

Shrillland wrote:

Nobel Hobos 2 wrote:
I'm not happy with the slight implication of Biden catching it, but I think that's accidental. I think it's meant to mean COVID-19 is upstaging the election subject?

Let's suggest something better, I'm sure the OP will listen.

It is indeed meant to meant that COVID-19's upstaging all. If you guys do have any suggestions for a title, you know I'll gladly listen.

Vassenor wrote:

Uiiop wrote:Why be salty at a MRA if you're not questioning it?

I mean i don't think you are in this case but your rep has tarnished any reading of your tone even when it doesn't make sense.

I wouldn't say I'm salty. More that I'm rolling my eyes. Because apparently asking for the details of an accusation means I don't believe it now despite how tortured that logic is.

The Black Forrest wrote:

Galloism wrote:Vass, there’s a lot of hypocrisy here - from Gauth, from you, from Joe Biden, and a lot of others. All you have to do is compare the reactions to the revelations regarding Kavanaugh (before we had an actual investigation) with the reactions of people regarding Biden today.

It was used as proof of guilt that Ford told a few people over the years before going public.
Well, so did Reade, but that’s now not proof of anything.
It was asserted that there is no reason for a woman like Ford to ever lie about this.
Well, Reade is a woman too.
There were multiple other reports of disturbing sexual behavior out of Kavanaugh, which was used as proof.
Well, those same accounts exist for Joe Biden.

You have to ask yourself why you instantly presumed Kavanaugh’s guilt based on these things, but are now studiously asking for evidence and proofs for Biden.

I’m happy you’re doing that for Biden, don’t get me wrong, but it should be the standard for everyone, not just everyone with a (D) after their name.

Well? It’s a tough situation.

Personally; I think all claims should be investigated. I don’t think there was a proper investigation of Kav. Even that specialist the Republicans was cut off on her interview as it looked like it might favor her. As I have stated I think Kav did what he did and genuinely doesn’t remember it. As a friend who deals in the areas of addiction has told me. He showed warning signs. He also said he would have to interview Kav more to be positive. Anyway.

There won’t be an official investigation of Biden because he has the potential of being the President and there is that nonsense rule of you can’t punish a sitting President. Trump may want the dirt on Biden; I am not sure his organization will want it as it opens the doors on Trump.

Should Biden be investigated? I have mixed feelings. Sure as stated it should be. The problem? This is more about politics then correcting a wrong.

If Biden is be investigated; then Trump MUST be as well as he has what 16 claims against him? This investigation MUST be outside the controls of Congress as well. They can’t pick the person to do it.

Anyway. People should continue to press the concept of punishing officials. It only becomes an issue when it centers on an election or an appointment.

Galloism wrote:Honestly, the denial could be just as legit as the original accusation.

Our memory really does stink. We invent details and such, and the more you recall a memory, the further it drifts from the original. Every time we recall it, we change it.

Imagine this hypothetical scenario:

Kavanaugh and his idiots friends legit shoved a teenage girl and locked her in a bedroom.

Over time, Kavanaugh has forgotten this part, only remembering the party itself. So he denies, and pass a lie detector because he truly believes it. As his sense of self does not include locking up innocent people, the memory is edited to fit the sense of self.

Meanwhile, his accuser has remembered additional details that didn’t happen - namely the forcing down, etc. She can pass a lie detector because she truly believes this happened. Her sense of self (again, hypothetically) includes the eternal victimhood that society constantly tells her. Since her sense of self is one of victimhood, the memory is edited to fit the sense of self.

The interesting part of this is they’re both telling the truth from their perspective, while neither one is telling in the truth in reality (in the cosmic truth sense).

And here’s the funny part: none of this is purposeful or deliberate. We can’t not edit our memories when we access them.

This is a hypothetical, not a statement of fact. But it’s supremely plausible.


And, perhaps more importantly, how does a memory from over 30 years ago stop the presses while the fact Kavanaugh believes in nearly unchecked executive power doesn’t even slow them down?

Galloism wrote:

Vassenor wrote:
And now you're throwing out non-sequitur statements because you got caught out.

Vass, there’s a lot of hypocrisy here - from Gauth, from you, from Joe Biden, and a lot of others. All you have to do is compare the reactions to the revelations regarding Kavanaugh (before we had an actual investigation) with the reactions of people regarding Biden today.

It was used as proof of guilt that Ford told a few people over the years before going public.
Well, so did Reade, but that’s now not proof of anything.
It was asserted that there is no reason for a woman like Ford to ever lie about this.
Well, Reade is a woman too.
There were multiple other reports of disturbing sexual behavior out of Kavanaugh, which was used as proof.
Well, those same accounts exist for Joe Biden.

You have to ask yourself why you instantly presumed Kavanaugh’s guilt based on these things, but are now studiously asking for evidence and proofs for Biden.

I’m happy you’re doing that for Biden, don’t get me wrong, but it should be the standard for everyone, not just everyone with a (D) after their name.

Greed and Death wrote:

Galloism wrote:Vass, there’s a lot of hypocrisy here - from Gauth, from you, from Joe Biden, and a lot of others. All you have to do is compare the reactions to the revelations regarding Kavanaugh (before we had an actual investigation) with the reactions of people regarding Biden today.

It was used as proof of guilt that Ford told a few people over the years before going public.
Well, so did Reade, but that’s now not proof of anything.
It was asserted that there is no reason for a woman like Ford to ever lie about this.
Well, Reade is a woman too.
There were multiple other reports of disturbing sexual behavior out of Kavanaugh, which was used as proof.
Well, those same accounts exist for Joe Biden.

You have to ask yourself why you instantly presumed Kavanaugh’s guilt based on these things, but are now studiously asking for evidence and proofs for Biden.

I’m happy you’re doing that for Biden, don’t get me wrong, but it should be the standard for everyone, not just everyone with a (D) after their name.

Because in the US there is a presumption that those who politically disagree with us are abject monsters.

Greed and Death wrote:Because in the US there is a presumption that those who politically disagree with us are abject monsters.

Vassenor wrote:

Galloism wrote:#BelieveWomen

Sorry, was there a point you were trying to make here, or are you just desperately searching for anything that even vaguely resembles hypocrisy in the hopes of a NO U?

Major-Tom wrote:

Vassenor wrote:
Sorry, was there a point you were trying to make here, or are you just desperately searching for anything that even vaguely resembles hypocrisy in the hopes of a NO U?

I thought we listened to what the accusers have to say before we make a snap judgement, which is what it seems like you're doing at this point. As of now, yes, they're just allegations against Biden, which is why some sort of impartial investigation into the matter would be ideal, to prove definitively whether or not Biden is a sexual assaulter.

It's ridiculous that few, if any, Dems are really talking about this or taking Reade seriously because "oh, it just couldn't be." For fuck's sake.

Gormwood wrote:

Galloism wrote:Well, they have some words from Biden to consider -

“For a woman to come forward in the glaring lights of focus, nationally, you’ve got to start off with the presumption that at least the essence of what she’s talking about is real, whether or not she forgets facts, whether or not it’s been made worse or better over time,”

https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/opin ... en-accuser

The question is, should Joe Biden be held to the standards of justice, or to the standards Joe Biden has pushed for?

It's like Bill Clinton. They couldn't get him on corruption so they resort to digging up a woman.

Even if Biden turns out innocent like I presume, the circus around the investigation is all the short-sighted public will focus on and that's what the Trumpublicans are shooting for.

Bienenhalde wrote:

Gormwood wrote:It's like Bill Clinton. They couldn't get him on corruption so they resort to digging up a woman.

Even if Biden turns out innocent like I presume, the circus around the investigation is all the short-sighted public will focus on and that's what the Trumpublicans are shooting for.

Clinton's disgusting and immoral behavior helped pave the way for Trump. If Clinton had successfully been impeached, then perhaps Trump would have never been electable in the first place.

Gormwood wrote:

Major-Tom wrote:
I thought we listened to what the accusers have to say before we make a snap judgement, which is what it seems like you're doing at this point. As of now, yes, they're just allegations against Biden, which is why some sort of impartial investigation into the matter would be ideal, to prove definitively whether or not Biden is a sexual assaulter.

It's ridiculous that few, if any, Dems are really talking about this or taking Reade seriously because "oh, it just couldn't be." For fuck's sake.

So when is Trump going to order Barr to investigate Biden? What grinds my gears is the idea that Biden's election chances being destroyed by the same sort of thing that was either dismissed or even added to Trump's appeal in his case. Double standard

Major-Tom wrote:

Vassenor wrote:
Sorry, was there a point you were trying to make here, or are you just desperately searching for anything that even vaguely resembles hypocrisy in the hopes of a NO U?

I thought we listened to what the accusers have to say before we make a snap judgement, which is what it seems like you're doing at this point. As of now, yes, they're just allegations against Biden, which is why some sort of impartial investigation into the matter would be ideal, to prove definitively whether or not Biden is a sexual assaulter.

It's ridiculous that few, if any, Dems are really talking about this or taking Reade seriously because "oh, it just couldn't be." For fuck's sake.

Major-Tom wrote:

Gormwood wrote:So when is Trump going to order Barr to investigate Biden? What grinds my gears is the idea that Biden's election chances being destroyed by the same sort of thing that was either dismissed or even added to Trump's appeal in his case. Double standard

I'm not sure what you're trying to get at here, I mean the accuser herself went to the Time's Up legal fund in January for both monetary and legal assistance, and even they wouldn't help her. To me, it goes to show that most people want this story buried.