Segregated Bathrooms: A Problem?

[Billugslovakc]

I present to you ladies and gentlemen, the feminists of Tumblr. Seriously, this is such a minute issue that its not even worth debating, having separated bathrooms in terms of sex doesn't oppress anyone of the opposite gender, so let us crap in peace!

[Greater Soviet Ukraine]

It is commonly taught that modern Western societies are no longer segregated. However, this is a lie. Society might no longer be racially segregated, but bathrooms remain segregated. Males can only use one of two sets of bathrooms in a building/floor, and females can only use the other of the two sets.

Is this a problem?

I think it is. Segregated bathrooms must end.

Segregated bathrooms will continue to promote divisions in society between the genders and the sexes; they are also unacceptably callous towards people who might not identify comfortably with either of the two genders/sexes or who may look different from the side they would rather identify with. It is a pointless exercise in social division. What is the point in keeping bathrooms separate? It does nothing but reinforce labels.

There is another problem. It is unfair for the females. Females generally wait longer than males to use the facilities; this is discrimination. I can speak from personal experience. Having traveled to many parts of the planet it always seems the case that the line-up for the female side is much longer. Why is this? Well its because of the design. Facilities are separate but NOT equal. Male facilities have exclusive access to urinals and so the line up is shorter. The true solution to equality is to have one bathroom for all genders and to remove the urinals (females can't use them anyway and they provide an unfair advantage to a set of the population in wait time). This way, EVERYONE gets an average wait time for relief that is approximately equal and that isn't affected by the availability of equipment. You can still maintain two washrooms per building but EVERYONE should be allowed to use either one and they should both be completely stocked with bowls.

Bathrooms should be unified. What are people scared of?

So here is the discussion question.

1. Are segregated bathrooms a problem?

2. What should/can be done to reform current facilities to promote equality?

I think Gender Neutral Bathrooms are preferable, but this not a huge problem like you make it out to be.

Transgenders, queers, and other people with non-conventional sexual orientations make up a significant part of the population. So yes, it is a problem.

[Greater Soviet Ukraine]

I present to you ladies and gentlemen, the feminists of Tumblr. Seriously, this is such a minute issue that its not even worth debating, having separated bathrooms in terms of sex doesn't oppress anyone of the opposite gender, so let us crap in peace!

How is this debate related to feminism in any way?

[Chessmistress]

Wrong.
Even if English is not my native language is your reading comprehension that fails.
It's 4/5 of sexual assaults BUT 47% of rapes
https://rainn.org/statistics
So, it's EXACTLY



You may better off without negating evidence.
Even if 80% sexual assaulters are non-strangers, women are MORE likely to be raped by unknown persons: 53%.

You seems don't care about the likeliness (53%) that women could be raped by unknown males within public bathrooms:

You're drawing an artificial distinction, as you'd know if you followed the link and clicked through.

Let me show you: https://rainn.org/get-information/stati ... -offenders

"Approximately 4/5 of rapes were committed by someone known to the victim.
82% of sexual assaults were perpetrated by a non-stranger.
47% of rapists are a friend or acquaintance.
25% are an intimate.
5% are a relative."

I think where you were going wrong was assuming that they weren't talking about the SAME rapes/sexual assaults in both cases - you were confused by the wording, perhaps. I prefer to believe that than that you were just arguing semantics.

Not exactly.
This is the link you posted
https://rainn.org/statistics
Here they write

Approximately 4/5 of assaults are committed by someone known to the victim.
47% of rapists are a friend or acquaintance.

Since "assaults" is "sexual assaults" and it's a different thing than "rape" the meaning for me is:

Approximately 4/5 of sexual assaults are committed by someone known to the victim.
47% of rapes are committed by someone known to the victim.

However they also wrote that
https://rainn.org/get-information/stati ... tims#Women

9 of every 10 rape victims were female in 2003

So, please, do not compare the likely that a male could be raped to the likely that a woman could be raped. Women are the priority, because are 90% of the victims.

[The imperial canadian dutchy]

I think Gender Neutral Bathrooms are preferable, but this not a huge problem like you make it out to be.

Transgenders, queers, and other people with non-conventional sexual orientations make up a significant part of the population. So yes, it is a problem.

Trans are 0.3 (In the US since that is the most relevant country to most people here) that is not significant in any way shape or form, don't like to yourself.

[Grave_n_idle]

How is the term "sexual assault" defined by the source?

Assuming you're asking me (hit the 'quote' button, it makes it a lot easier) - they are using it interchangeably with 'rape'.

In other words, they describe rape both as rape, and as a sexual assault. Which is perfectly reasonable.

[Chessmistress]

I present to you ladies and gentlemen, the feminists of Tumblr. Seriously, this is such a minute issue that its not even worth debating, having separated bathrooms in terms of sex doesn't oppress anyone of the opposite gender, so let us crap in peace!

Funny thing is that I have been accused to be a Tumblr kind and I substantially agree with you...while "moderate" people are freaking out in order to ban separated bathrooms.

[Grave_n_idle]

Since "assaults" is "sexual assaults" and it's a different thing than "rape" the meaning for me is:.

It doesn't matter what the 'meaning for you' is. You're wrong.

They have the same set of statistics on two linked pages (one gives more information on the other) and they use the two terms interchangeably for the SAME statistics.

In other words - they are describing the rapes as rapes on one page, and sexual assaults on the other page - but the numbers are still the same.

Seriously - go click both links again.

[Chessmistress]

How is the term "sexual assault" defined by the source?

Assuming you're asking me (hit the 'quote' button, it makes it a lot easier) - they are using it interchangeably with 'rape'.

In other words, they describe rape both as rape, and as a sexual assault. Which is perfectly reasonable.

It's perfectly reasonable, I agree, but it's not commonly nor legally used.

[The Empire of Masyaf]

I present to you ladies and gentlemen, the feminists of Tumblr. Seriously, this is such a minute issue that its not even worth debating, having separated bathrooms in terms of sex doesn't oppress anyone of the opposite gender, so let us crap in peace!

This guy gets it

[Grave_n_idle]

Assuming you're asking me (hit the 'quote' button, it makes it a lot easier) - they are using it interchangeably with 'rape'.

In other words, they describe rape both as rape, and as a sexual assault. Which is perfectly reasonable.

It's perfectly reasonable, I agree, but it's not commonly nor legally used.

On the contrary, according to Black's Law Dictionary (check your local library) rape is a subset of sexual assault. It most certainly is 'legally used'.

[Ceannairceach]

I don't feel particularly impassioned either way. Gender integrated bathrooms would be alright with me if it became the new norm, but I doubt it is something that will happen within the next couple decades.

[Grave_n_idle]

I don't feel particularly impassioned either way. Gender integrated bathrooms would be alright with me if it became the new norm, but I doubt it is something that will happen within the next couple decades.

Same here. I'm not clamouring for combined bathrooms (although I've seen them, and they seem to work just fine). I just think most of the arguments against them are ludicrous.

I don't really think there's a Zeitgeist to change them, though.

[Nirvash Type TheEND]

It all just needs to be a big funnel in the middle of the floor that everyone pees into. Yes even the ladies.

[Chessmistress]

I don't feel particularly impassioned either way. Gender integrated bathrooms would be alright with me if it became the new norm, but I doubt it is something that will happen within the next couple decades.

Same here. I'm not clamouring for combined bathrooms (although I've seen them, and they seem to work just fine). I just think most of the arguments against them are ludicrous.

I don't really think there's a Zeitgeist to change them, though.

Fact is that at least there are arguments against unisex bathrooms.
On the opposite side the only argument in favor is actually "it may reduce the othering"

[Chessmistress]

It all just needs to be a big funnel in the middle of the floor that everyone pees into. Yes even the ladies.

It's the most hygienical kind of bathroom, and also the most economical and most easy to clean.
But the hole is not so big, and it's a little uncomfortable
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Squat_toilet

[Dyakovo]

I present to you ladies and gentlemen, the feminists of Tumblr. Seriously, this is such a minute issue that its not even worth debating, having separated bathrooms in terms of sex doesn't oppress anyone of the opposite gender, so let us crap in peace!

Again, this has nothing to do with feminism.

[Grave_n_idle]

Fact is that at least there are arguments against unisex bathrooms.

I didn't say there weren't any arguments. I said they were all ludicrous. Which is true.

On the opposite side the only argument in favor is actually "it may reduce the othering"

That is an argument... and a better one that 'tradition'.

But there are others - perhaps most notably, that it means anyone can use any facilities.

[Nirvash Type TheEND]

It all just needs to be a big funnel in the middle of the floor that everyone pees into. Yes even the ladies.

It's the most hygienical kind of bathroom, and also the most economical and most easy to clean.
But the hole is not so big, and it's a little uncomfortable
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Squat_toilet

No no no. I mean a hole big enough to host a roller derby in, where everyone crowds around it and prays the person on the other side of the hole hasn't done enough kegels to splash their sneakers (or pumps).

[Dyakovo]

I present to you ladies and gentlemen, the feminists of Tumblr. Seriously, this is such a minute issue that its not even worth debating, having separated bathrooms in terms of sex doesn't oppress anyone of the opposite gender, so let us crap in peace!

Funny thing is that I have been accused to be a Tumblr kind and I substantially agree with you...while "moderate" people are freaking out in order to ban separated bathrooms.

No-one (with the possible exception of Infected Kefka) is freaking out in order to ban gender-segregated restrooms.

[Dyakovo]

Same here. I'm not clamouring for combined bathrooms (although I've seen them, and they seem to work just fine). I just think most of the arguments against them are ludicrous.

I don't really think there's a Zeitgeist to change them, though.

Fact is that at least there are arguments against unisex bathrooms.
On the opposite side the only argument in favor is actually "it may reduce the othering"

Don't lie.

[Achesia]

Threads like this is why I need to stop coming to NSG....

Shame you can't learn from your mistakes.

Sometimes I hold out hope for people, but a shame it is I let them fool me.

[Italios]

It all just needs to be a big funnel in the middle of the floor that everyone pees into. Yes even the ladies.

It's the most hygienical kind of bathroom, and also the most economical and most easy to clean.
But the hole is not so big, and it's a little uncomfortable
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Squat_toilet

Unfortunately, they're the hardest to wee in, and you'd better hope you don't fall in.

[Ethel mermania]

It's the most hygienical kind of bathroom, and also the most economical and most easy to clean.
But the hole is not so big, and it's a little uncomfortable
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Squat_toilet

Unfortunately, they're the hardest to wee in, and you'd better hope you don't fall in.

Tough on drunks and the knees.

[Italios]

Unfortunately, they're the hardest to wee in, and you'd better hope you don't fall in.

Tough on drunks and the knees.

On the other hand, it would be so uncomfortable to use the bathroom with a squat toilet, it wouldn't matter if they're single-gender bathrooms or not.