Confederate Emblems to be Removed Nationwide.

[United Prefectures of Appia]

The Confederate flag represents the struggle for the rights of the states to govern themselves, and not submit their sovereignty to the federal government. Slavery was a factor during the civil war, but it was simply the straw that broke the camels back, not the sole cause of the fight.
So no, the confederate flag should stay up, to remove it is dishonorable to those who fought and died for their state. The average Johnny Reb wasn't fighting because he wanted to own slaves, he was fighting because he didn't want northern troops to march on his town or home. And to suggest otherwise, regardless of your political leaning or thoughts on southern slavery, would be false outright.

Besides, those who do not remember the past, are doomed to repeat it.

"I deny the right of Congress to force a slaveholding State upon an unwilling people. I deny their right to force a free State upon an unwilling people. I deny their right to force a good thing upon a people who are unwilling to receive it. The great principle is the right of every community to judge and decide for itself, whether a thing is right or wrong, whether it would be good or evil for them to adopt it; and the right of free action, the right of free thought, the right of free judgment upon the question is dearer to every true American than any other under a free government."

- Democratic Senator Stephen A. Douglas, 1858

Ever tried convincing both African-Americans and the hate groups like the Neo-Nazi and the KKK?

[The Black Forrest]

Every single one of them touch for slavery. Protecting the eternal "right" to own black slaves was the raison d'être for the CSA.

States' Rights. Slavery is not the main point.

States rights to own slaves.

[The 502nd SS]

Fuck off, they fought because they wanted to defend their land from the federal government trying to take away their state rights and some of those rights was slavery. The majority did not fight for slavery.

Every single one of them touch for slavery. Protecting the eternal "right" to own black slaves was the raison d'être for the CSA.

can you prove that everyone of them supported slavery?

[Infected Mushroom]

That the US Constitution did not apply to those states which seceded (thus making it difficult to hold them as levying war via the treason clause, though one could argue secession itself represented such) and that aforementioned secession was a standing point of contention in US law until declared illegal in Texas v. White only after the war.

Under Texas v. White, the states never left the Union.

It means absolutely nothing.

The Court could have ruled either way; just happens that their subjective opinion forms ''the law'' but its entirely possible they got it wrong. If you looked at the actual text of the Constitution, it never said seccession was illegal. Therefore, by default its constitutional.

[Dyakovo]

The Confederate flag represents the struggle for the rights of the states to govern themselves, ]

Wrong. They fought to defend their right to own black slaves.

[The 502nd SS]

States' Rights. Slavery is not the main point.

States rights to own slaves.

among other rights

[Geilinor]

States rights to own slaves.

among other rights

Name these other rights.

[The 502nd SS]

The Confederate flag represents the struggle for the rights of the states to govern themselves, ]

Wrong. They fought to defend their right to own black slaves.

And other rights too

[Wallenburg]

Confederate aligned forces attacked US military bases, that is the definition of treason according to Article 3 of the US Constitution. So, no, there is no gray area about whether or not they were treasonous scumbags.

They had seceded already. They were not bound to the constitution.

The US never recognized Confederate sovereignty. Confederates were deemed insurrectionists in American territory, forming seperate, illigitimate governments.

[Zeinbrad]

It belongs in a museum. Put it there to get the appropriate amount of dust it deserves until it turns into dust itself.

That's not how museums work.

[Infected Mushroom]

States' Rights. Slavery is not the main point.

States rights to own slaves.

They didn't need to fight for it, it was already constitutionally protected. The 3/5th provision was in the Constitution as were provisions about runaway slaves. It was already protected.

[Wallenburg]

Wrong. They fought to defend their right to own black slaves.

And other rights too

Name them, Johnny.

[The Black Forrest]

They had seceded already. They were not bound to the constitution.

The US never recognized Confederate sovereignty. Confederates were deemed insurrectionists in American territory, forming seperate, illigitimate governments.

Nobody recognized them.

[The Romulan Republic]

Every single one of them touch for slavery. Protecting the eternal "right" to own black slaves was the raison d'être for the CSA.

can you prove that everyone of them supported slavery?

Of course not. And its irrelevant.

Did every single person in the Confederacy support slavery? I'm sure they didn't. But did it come into existence because of slavery? Yes.

[United Prefectures of Appia]

Every single one of them touch for slavery. Protecting the eternal "right" to own black slaves was the raison d'être for the CSA.

can you prove that everyone of them supported slavery?

Probably not every one of them, but for sure at least about a third of the Confederacy did support slavery nonetheless:

"Our position is thoroughly identified with the institution of slavery-- the greatest material interest of the world. Its labor supplies the product which constitutes by far the largest and most important portions of commerce of the earth. These products are peculiar to the climate verging on the tropical regions, and by an imperious law of nature, none but the black race can bear exposure to the tropical sun. These products have become necessities of the world, and a blow at slavery is a blow at commerce and civilization. That blow has been long aimed at the institution, and was at the point of reaching its consummation. There was no choice left us but submission to the mandates of abolition, or a dissolution of the Union, whose principles had been subverted to work out our ruin."

"For the last ten years we have had numerous and serious causes of complaint against our non-slave-holding confederate States with reference to the subject of African slavery. They have endeavored to weaken our security, to disturb our domestic peace and tranquility, and persistently refused to comply with their express constitutional obligations to us in reference to that property, and by the use of their power in the Federal Government have striven to deprive us of an equal enjoyment of the common Territories of the Republic."

"We affirm that these ends for which this Government was instituted have been defeated, and the Government itself has been made destructive of them by the action of the non-slaveholding States. Those States have assume the right of deciding upon the propriety of our domestic institutions; and have denied the rights of property established in fifteen of the States and recognized by the Constitution; they have denounced as sinful the institution of slavery; they have permitted open establishment among them of societies, whose avowed object is to disturb the peace and to eloign the property of the citizens of other States."

"Texas was received as a commonwealth holding, maintaining and protecting the institution known as negro slavery-- the servitude of the African to the white race within her limits-- a relation that had existed from the first settlement of her wilderness by the white race, and which her people intended should exist in all future time."

[Dyakovo]

Confederate aligned forces attacked US military bases, that is the definition of treason according to Article 3 of the US Constitution. So, no, there is no gray area about whether or not they were treasonous scumbags.

They had seceded already. They were not bound to the constitution.

They had declared their intent to secede. The legitimacy of said attempt had not yet been determined.

[Infected Mushroom]

can you prove that everyone of them supported slavery?

Of course not. And its irrelevant.

Did every single person in the Confederacy support slavery? I'm sure they didn't. But did it come into existence because of slavery? Yes.

It also came into existence because of the Big Bang or God's creation of the world.

The point?

[Infected Mushroom]

They had seceded already. They were not bound to the constitution.

They had declared their intent to secede. The legitimacy of said attempt had not yet been determined.

Its presumptively Constitutoinal. Constitution has nothing that outright prohibits it.

[Pandeeria]

Confederate aligned forces attacked US military bases, that is the definition of treason according to Article 3 of the US Constitution. So, no, there is no gray area about whether or not they were treasonous scumbags.

They had seceded already. They were not bound to the constitution.

If their succession wasn't recognized nor officialized, then they never did technically secede. They attempted to, but they never successfully did. Therefore the US Constitution still applies to them.

[Geilinor]

Of course not. And its irrelevant.

Did every single person in the Confederacy support slavery? I'm sure they didn't. But did it come into existence because of slavery? Yes.

It also came into existence because of the Big Bang or God's creation of the world.

The point?

You are being unnecessarily dense, you do understand the argument.

[Dyakovo]

Every single one of them touch for slavery. Protecting the eternal "right" to own black slaves was the raison d'être for the CSA.

States' Rights. Slavery is not the main point.

Wrong. As you've been shown repeatedly.

[Occupied Deutschland]

They had seceded already. They were not bound to the constitution.

If their succession wasn't recognized nor officialized, then they never did technically secede. They attempted to, but they never successfully did. Therefore the US Constitution still applies to them.

Such was not the feeling of the US government until a number of years after the war had ended.

[Vashtanaraada]

It also came into existence because of the Big Bang or God's creation of the world.

The point?

You are being unnecessarily dense, you do understand the argument.

Address the point and avoid theology.

[Infected Mushroom]

States' Rights. Slavery is not the main point.

Wrong. As you've been shown repeatedly.

They fought for independance. That is the most immediate objective.

[Geilinor]

If their succession wasn't recognized nor officialized, then they never did technically secede. They attempted to, but they never successfully did. Therefore the US Constitution still applies to them.

Such was not the feeling of the US government until a number of years after the war had ended.

We should be interpreting this based on the legal facts of the matter, not the CSA's "feeling" on the issue.