Confederate Emblems to be Removed Nationwide.

[Melfar]

The Confederate flag, for southerners, is not a symbol of racism or prejudice.

Yeah, the white ones.

I'm fine with it being flown on private property. But keep it off public property.

[Trollgaard]

The notion that we should respect a flag that symbolizes treason against a democratically elected government makes me sick.
If you love that flag then you forfeit the right to be called an American.

It wasn't so democratic that it didn't allow a democratic decision to withdraw from that government, now was it?

Exactly.

[Wanderjar]

The notion that we should respect a flag that symbolizes treason against a democratically elected government makes me sick.
If you love that flag then you forfeit the right to be called an American.

My family has been the US since before the revolution. They fought under Washington, and fought under the Stars and Bars. Not American? Pah! Mind your mouth, pup.

I agree wholeheartedly. My family came over on the Mayflower. Some fought for Washington, some against. Some fought for Lincoln, some against. But that doesn't make *me* any less American for honoring that they did serve, in their own ways.

[The New Greek Republic]

W. T. Thompson, the founder of the Confederate battle flag, would disagree with you. He referred to his design as the 'White Man's Flag', the color symbolizing the supremacy of the white man.
<quote>As a people we are fighting to maintain the Heaven-ordained supremacy of the white man over the inferior or colored race; a white flag would thus be emblematical of our cause.</quote>
Source: Daily Morning News, 1863.

Source location: https://books.google.com/books?id=vuRCA ... 22&f=false

I was talking about people today, guess I should've been more specific.

The Confederate flag, for southerners, is not a symbol of racism or prejudice.

You mean all or most Southerners? If former, the KKK and the Neo-Nazis wanna have a word with you.

I meant most. In my personal experience, and in my community, it's a pride thing not prejudice.

[The Black Forrest]

I suppose I should've had 'necessarily' in there before endorsing. I thought it was heavily enough implied to be unneeded though.

Not really, no.
Unless you'd care to point me to the calls by South Carolinian government officials to secede and/or reinstitute slavery.

They've never called for the reintroduction of slavery, that's nonsense.

Formally? Not really. They couldn't. The Brits and the union blockade put the kibosh on that idea.

[Shaggtopia]

Let em fly the flag. Hell let EVERY state fly the flag, just make it so everyone knows "hey this state is still racist!" And ignore every attempt at justification. That sounds fair to me.

[The Black Forrest]

The notion that we should respect a flag that symbolizes treason against a democratically elected government makes me sick.
If you love that flag then you forfeit the right to be called an American.

It wasn't so democratic that it didn't allow a democratic decision to withdraw from that government, now was it?

Hmmm. More Northerners were against the idea then Southerners? Sounds like a democracy..

[The Romulan Republic]

The Confederate flag, for southerners, is not a symbol of racism or prejudice.

Yeah, the white ones.

I'm fine with it being flown on private property. But keep it off public property.

Being permitted to fly it on public property isn't even a question. I assume that's protected by the First Amendment of the Constitution.

But to have a government endorse it is just vile.

Its a flag of racism, treason, slavery, aggressive war, and turning against a democratically elected government because you lost an election. It is an undemocratic symbol that represents all the worst of America and insults all the best of America with its presence.

That may be a painful admission for some southerners. But frankly, they shouldn't take it personally. They are not at fault because some ancestors of theres' did something horrible. They are only at fault if they continue to perpetuate and endorse that evil.

[Pandeeria]

The Confederate flag represents hatred, treason, and as much people doesn't want to admit it, it represents slavery. The very institution that was fighting for that flag was fighting dearly for slavery.

It's like saying that the Swastika doesn't represent the holocaust.

[Infected Mushroom]

The Confederate flag represents hatred, treason, and as much people doesn't want to admit it, it represents slavery. The very institution that was fighting for that flag was fighting dearly for slavery.

It's like saying that the Swastika doesn't represent the holocaust.

The Confederate flag represents State's Rights above all else.

Anything else is incidental.

Just as the USA's flag doesn't represent tax evasion, neither does the Confederate flag represent slavery.

[Forti Mundus]

It should not be removed, because 1st amendment, it is a major part of American history, and it does not actually resemble hate. A symbol resembles whatever someone interprets it as. I could see orange cupcakes as a symbol of hatred towards brown-haired people (like myself), but that does not mean that they should be banned. Also, South Carolina was the first to secede from the union. It is an important part of the state's history. I would also like to argue, being from North Carolina, that most people in both Carolinas of both races do not want the flag removed. I have no poll evidence or anything for that last point, only what people I've talked to there have said to me.

Just as a resource for Civil War history from a Southerner's point of view, a bit different from the US public school teaching, read "Everything You Were Taught About the Civil War Was Wrong: Just Ask A Southerner!" by Lochlainn Seabrook. It's a great book with lots of citations.

Just as a quick note, I am not racist. I support confederate ideals like state's rights, and I'm from the South, but I do not believe racism to be the reason for secession (see book above), and I personally oppose any form of racism.

Thank you for reading.

[Russels Orbiting Teapot]

It wasn't so democratic that it didn't allow a democratic decision to withdraw from that government, now was it?

I wonder how that decision would have gone if all the black people in the south had been allowed to vote freely and fairly

Actually no I don't, because it's pretty obvious how it would have gone.

[Torisakia]

It's probably already been said recently (or if anyone cares, but just pretend you do), but a Montgomery lawmaker wants the Confederate flag to be taken down on Alabama capitol grounds. The flags surround an Alabama Confederate Monument erected in 1898. Just a note that he doesn't want the monument taken down, just the flags that surround it.

[Pandeeria]

The Confederate flag represents hatred, treason, and as much people doesn't want to admit it, it represents slavery. The very institution that was fighting for that flag was fighting dearly for slavery.

It's like saying that the Swastika doesn't represent the holocaust.

The Confederate flag represents State's Rights above all else.

Anything else is incidental.

Just as the USA's flag doesn't represent tax evasion, neither does the Confederate flag represent slavery.

Except the South fought for States Rights and Slavery. The Confederate flag represents slavery. I know that now since Slavery and Racism is considered a general social taboo people don't want to think of their flag as a rallying symbol of Slavery, but it is.

It also represents treason too. And over such a moronic issue like states rights. The Central government should always have more authority than the petty squabbling little blobs that are states.

[Dyakovo]

Trollgaard doesn't want something to change? Weird.

There's no reason to take down the flag. Its a beautiful, strong, and proud flag. Despite the checkered history of the reasons behind it, it is a spirit of hundreds of thousands who fought under that glorious banner. Fought and died. It is to remember the dead.

And quite frankly I don't give a rat's ass if you (you being anybody) want it taken down. I saw raise up more. Reinstate the old pre2004ish state of Georgia flag too.

Its a piece of history, and it shouldn't be changed just because some people feel a bit squeemish over it.

The whole issue makes me sick.

Yes, proudly fly the flag of treasonous, slaver scum.

[United Prefectures of Appia]

The Confederate flag represents hatred, treason, and as much people doesn't want to admit it, it represents slavery. The very institution that was fighting for that flag was fighting dearly for slavery.

It's like saying that the Swastika doesn't represent the holocaust.

Sadly, the swastika was originally a religious symbol that pre-dated the Nazi party thousands of years ago. The atrocities committed by the Nazis have destroyed whatever integrity the swastika had left. Seeing this symbol, people think more of the Nazi atrocities than they do of anything relating to religion.

If any of you ever read the Naruto manga, some of you will know about Neji Hyuuga who had a symbol tattooed on his forehead. In the manga, the symbol was a swastika but in the anime, they changed it to a mere "X" cross for censorship.

[Pandeeria]

It should not be removed, because 1st amendment, it is a major part of American history, and it does not actually resemble hate. A symbol resembles whatever someone interprets it as.

"The Swastika should not be removed, because 5th Article, it is a major part of German history, and it does not actually resemble hate. A symbol resembles whatever someone interprets it as."

[Geilinor]

Trollgaard doesn't want something to change? Weird.

There's no reason to take down the flag. Its a beautiful, strong, and proud flag. Despite the checkered history of the reasons behind it, it is a spirit of hundreds of thousands who fought under that glorious banner. Fought and died. It is to remember the dead.

And quite frankly I don't give a rat's ass if you (you being anybody) want it taken down. I saw raise up more. Reinstate the old pre2004ish state of Georgia flag too.

Its a piece of history, and it shouldn't be changed just because some people feel a bit squeemish over it.

The whole issue makes me sick.

South Carolina's actions since 1861 to the end of segregation are nothing to be proud of.

[Dyakovo]

Those who fought for the Confederacy had no honor and deserve no memorial.

No. They fought with honor.

They didn't fight for lands, titles, or riches.

True. They fought for the right to own other people. Real honorable.

[The Black Forrest]

It should not be removed, because 1st amendment, it is a major part of American history, and it does not actually resemble hate. A symbol resembles whatever someone interprets it as. I could see orange cupcakes as a symbol of hatred towards brown-haired people (like myself), but that does not mean that they should be banned. Also, South Carolina was the first to secede from the union. It is an important part of the state's history. I would also like to argue, being from North Carolina, that most people in both Carolinas of both races do not want the flag removed. I have no poll evidence or anything for that last point, only what people I've talked to there have said to me.

Just as a resource for Civil War history from a Southerner's point of view, a bit different from the US public school teaching, read "Everything You Were Taught About the Civil War Was Wrong: Just Ask A Southerner!" by Lochlainn Seabrook. It's a great book with lots of citations.

Just as a quick note, I am not racist. I support confederate ideals like state's rights, and I'm from the South, but I do not believe racism to be the reason for secession (see book above), and I personally oppose any form of racism.

Thank you for reading.

First amendment doesn't apply here.

The flag in question went up because they didn't like the idea of segregation going away.

But that isn't racism right.

Accept the racist intentions and viewpoints of the past and move on. Saying it wasn't about racism makes you sound silly.

-edit-
Read a few reviews on that book.

Don't know if this was accurate but if it's in the book, it explains the author:

"WHAT YOU WERE TAUGHT: The type of black bondage practiced by the Old South was called "slavery."
"THE TRUTH:"there was never such a thing as slavery"

[Trollgaard]

There's no reason to take down the flag. Its a beautiful, strong, and proud flag. Despite the checkered history of the reasons behind it, it is a spirit of hundreds of thousands who fought under that glorious banner. Fought and died. It is to remember the dead.

And quite frankly I don't give a rat's ass if you (you being anybody) want it taken down. I saw raise up more. Reinstate the old pre2004ish state of Georgia flag too.

Its a piece of history, and it shouldn't be changed just because some people feel a bit squeemish over it.

The whole issue makes me sick.

Yes, proudly fly the flag of treasonous, slaver scum.

The issue of secession wasn't decided at the time. We know now that states can't secede, as we have the Civil War as an example of what happens. War.

Not really treasonous as they seceding was a grey area at the time.

[Infected Mushroom]

No. They fought with honor.

They didn't fight for lands, titles, or riches.

True. They fought for the right to own other people. Real honorable.

Read the rest of the post and then get back to me. I know you can do it and come up with a responsible response.

[Geilinor]

Yes, proudly fly the flag of treasonous, slaver scum.

The issue of secession wasn't decided at the time. We know now that states can't secede, as we have the Civil War as an example of what happens. War.

Not really treasonous as they seceding was a grey area at the time.

According to the US Constitution, levying war against the United States is treason.

[Dyakovo]

You mean all or most Southerners? If former, the KKK and the Neo-Nazis wanna have a word with you.

I meant most. In my personal experience, and in my community, it's a pride thing not prejudice.

Pride in a history of prejudice, treason, and slavery.

[The 502nd SS]

No. They fought with honor.

They didn't fight for lands, titles, or riches.

True. They fought for the right to own other people. Real honorable.

Fuck off, they fought because they wanted to defend their land from the federal government trying to take away their state rights and some of those rights was slavery. The majority did not fight for slavery.