Confederate Emblems to be Removed Nationwide.

[Occupied Deutschland]

Flying a flag is not endorsing the actions or ideology of a state, particularly not at monuments to those who died in military service of that state.
Basically, the same reason flying the American flag over the Little Big Horn Memorial isn't fucked up.

Military service to what state?

North Carolina and/or the Confederacy in this instance.

People keep talking about a monument, which might be an appropriate context for a confederate flag. I'm confused, because the article linked in the OP just talks about the flag on the state house.

The flag is flown above a monument that's on the grounds of the state house (and in 'front' of it).

I believe it was flown on the actual state house flagpole below the Federal flag for many years, but it got moved down to the monument itself in 2000.

[Risottia]

It shouldn't of been removed. even though I am against it, people should have the freedom to fly whatever flag they want.

Sorry, strawman, and not even an original one.

Anyone should fly whatever flag they want to fly, don't take their rights away. 1st amendment people. Yeah it's bad, but you realize people actually fly the soviet flag?

Strawman. This isn't about individuals being barred from flying a flag. It's about governmental offices being barred from it, which is perfectly constitutional. Btw, the First Amendment does NOT recognise an ABSOLUTE freedom of speech.

Better luck next time.

Also

if they want to remove the flag, then they should remove all Soviet flags,

Kindly source the US governmental offices that are currently flying a Soviet flag.
While you're at it, please detail when there was a war between the United States of America and the Union of the Soviet Socialist Republics.
Apples and oranges.

I don't think the flag represents hate. Just my opinion. Also, First Amendment.

First Amendment doesn't apply to governmental offices.

[United Prefectures of Appia]

Except for the fact 4 states seceded and cited, as a main cause if not a major cause slaveowners' grievances.

Here's some citings:

"Our position is thoroughly identified with the institution of slavery-- the greatest material interest of the world. Its labor supplies the product which constitutes by far the largest and most important portions of commerce of the earth. These products are peculiar to the climate verging on the tropical regions, and by an imperious law of nature, none but the black race can bear exposure to the tropical sun. These products have become necessities of the world, and a blow at slavery is a blow at commerce and civilization. That blow has been long aimed at the institution, and was at the point of reaching its consummation. There was no choice left us but submission to the mandates of abolition, or a dissolution of the Union, whose principles had been subverted to work out our ruin."

"For the last ten years we have had numerous and serious causes of complaint against our non-slave-holding confederate States with reference to the subject of African slavery. They have endeavored to weaken our security, to disturb our domestic peace and tranquility, and persistently refused to comply with their express constitutional obligations to us in reference to that property, and by the use of their power in the Federal Government have striven to deprive us of an equal enjoyment of the common Territories of the Republic."

"We affirm that these ends for which this Government was instituted have been defeated, and the Government itself has been made destructive of them by the action of the non-slaveholding States. Those States have assume the right of deciding upon the propriety of our domestic institutions; and have denied the rights of property established in fifteen of the States and recognized by the Constitution; they have denounced as sinful the institution of slavery; they have permitted open establishment among them of societies, whose avowed object is to disturb the peace and to eloign the property of the citizens of other States."

"Texas was received as a commonwealth holding, maintaining and protecting the institution known as negro slavery-- the servitude of the African to the white race within her limits-- a relation that had existed from the first settlement of her wilderness by the white race, and which her people intended should exist in all future time."

So if anyone trying to defend the right to keep the flag raised by arguing that it was due to states right and economic freedom, then yeah I agree that's what happened. The states right and economic freedom to continue using slaves. Anyone can talk about how the Confed flag is supposed to represent Southern pride and culture, but in reality, whether they like it or not, it's already tainted heavily with racism just like the Nazi. Apparently, while they talk about their thoughts and feelings defending the flag, they apparently forgot about the considerations of Blacks and what the flag means to them.

[Laerod]

I mean, it's not a lie since they did claim it was for states' rights.

Sadly for them, most historians agree that all these "states' rights" they declared as worthy of being protected were directly tied to preserving the slave economy, so there's not much room to discuss whether, or not, slavery was the cause of secession.

They mentioned the plural form, which is nonsense because it's only really about one very specific "right".

People keep talking about a monument, which might be an appropriate context for a confederate flag. I'm confused, because the article linked in the OP just talks about the flag on the state house.

In 2000, the state legislature moved the flag from the top of the State House to the Confederate Memorial on the capitol grounds in order to give a half-assed gesture towards the NAACP to end the boycott that's been going on because the legislature refused to remove the flag since raising it for the centennial anniversary of the Civil War. The monument has managed to do without a flag for a while, apparently, and is also in view of a memorial for African Americans, making it rather inappropriate to fly the slaver flag on it regardless of the fact that it's dedicated to fallen soldiers.

[Risottia]

... The monument has managed to do without a flag for a while, apparently, and is also in view of a memorial for African Americans, making it rather inappropriate to fly the slaver flag on it regardless of the fact that it's dedicated to fallen soldiers.

Well, another solution would be raising a Union battle flag over the memorial for African Americans, plus a sign reading "we owned your sorry bottoms".

On a second thought, maybe the second part is a bit over the lines.

[Ifreann]

Yes, First Amendment. But, it's flying at a US Memorial. And it represents hate.

I don't think the flag represents hate. Just my opinion. Also, First Amendment.

The First Amendment doesn't apply. States don't have rights.

---

Military service to what state?

North Carolina and/or the Confederacy in this instance.

Well it can't be the Confederacy. Per Texas v. White unilateral secession is not legally possible in the US, so the Confederacy was never a state at all. And it can't be South Carolina, which I assume you meant, since, as previously, anyone flying a Confederate flag was surely not in military service to South Carolina, but to the rebels who occupied South Carolina.

[Opplandia]

A long necessary step, as this flag is a digrace to modern USA.

[Occupied Deutschland]

... The monument has managed to do without a flag for a while, apparently, and is also in view of a memorial for African Americans, making it rather inappropriate to fly the slaver flag on it regardless of the fact that it's dedicated to fallen soldiers.

Well, another solution would be raising a Union battle flag over the memorial for African Americans, plus a sign reading "we owned your sorry bottoms".

On a second thought, maybe the second part is a bit over the lines.

The message probably comes across just fine, considering the Stars and Stripes fly over the State House every day.

North Carolina and/or the Confederacy in this instance.

Well it can't be the Confederacy. Per Texas v. White unilateral secession is not legally possible in the US, so the Confederacy was never a state at all. And it can't be South Carolina, which I assume you meant, since, as previously, anyone flying a Confederate flag was surely not in military service to South Carolina, but to the rebels who occupied South Carolina.

*yawn*

[Risottia]

Well, another solution would be raising a Union battle flag over the memorial for African Americans, plus a sign reading "we owned your sorry bottoms".

On a second thought, maybe the second part is a bit over the lines.

The message probably comes across just fine, considering the Stars and Stripes fly over the State House every day.

Well, comes across just fine for a rather large part of the SC citizens, but I guess there's still someone that, after some 150 years, hasn't really got the news.

[The New Fandom Republic]

As a man of African Decent. I think the flag at the memorial should stay flying BUT the one that flys atop the capital should be taken down and never put up again. It's important that we are reminded of the mistakes of the past to never make them again. Yes yes I know slavery but slavery has and is happened/Happening all around the world. Every Race has experienced Slavery in one way or another. Hell Africans did it to other Africans. But that makes no better. Also Don't this all comes as a distraction to something else that might enslave us economically?

[The True North (Ancient)]

So, the polls on this typically give two options for what this flag represents: hate and heritage. As we all know, these polls are split down the middle. The problem is "heritage" is an outrageously ambiguous term. Heritage of what? Heritage of ignorance? Of owning slaves?

I don't see why this hasn't been dealt with sooner. It would be grossly inappropriate to fly a Nazi flag in Germany, never mind the rest of the world. Of course, it represents heritage and German excellency, but more memorably, antisemitism and imperial destruction. You can say that the flag, whether it is Confederate or Nazi, is misunderstood, but as long as its existence is directly tied to its historical context, it is never going to be appropriate.

[The Tricolour]

I think they should keep the flag. The Confederate Flag is not a symbol of hatred or racism. It's like saying the swastika is in the same boat. Both are not, the swastika has been used by various cultures for thousands of years to symbolize everything but hatred and racism. Its like saying, "Oh that group there flew this symbol for X amount of years. Lets disregard all context and eliminate it completely rather than try to repair the symbolic nature of this object. So I guess all Hindu temples should eliminate their swastika symbols because some people might take offense despite the context of their offense being entirely misplaced?"

When I visited America I bought a shirt with the confederate flag as a souvenir. No one said, "You're a racist for having that or you hate black people." People didn't seem to give a rats arse. Now if I wore it and started yelling stuff like, "I'm gonna kill all the blacks on this block." Then yes something is undoubtedly wrong with that scenario.

The Confederate Flag was a symbol of the states willingness to secede and protect their own States Rights. Lets face, the Civil War was never just about Slavery, any historian worth their credentials should say the same. Sure slavery was a facet of it and a point of argument. But Lincoln and practically all politicians wouldn't fight a war over it. The only reason the North did try and make it about slavery was to make the world believe they were morally right. Not saying they were morally wrong or the Confederates were morally wrong either. There are two sides to every story. So the slavery part of it was more or less for good quality propaganda conducted by the North. I mean if it was about slavery than why wait to 1863 (an election was on the horizon and Lincoln had a distinct possibility of losing) to begin putting that slogan everywhere? Why wait when the civil war was already two years underway? Oh wait...politics. People seem to be blind to the big picture.

But taking down a flag doesn't solve any problems. Yeah! woopity due dah day you took down a flag and probably pissed off more people than before to sate the desires of this one aspect of society. While potentially disgracing the memories of people interned at the monument.

Instead of people complaining about a flag, solve the issue, forget the flag. It's just a material object of clothe and linen.

My thoughts exactly!

[Dyakovo]

Yes, First Amendment. But, it's flying at a US Memorial. And it represents hate.

I don't think the flag represents hate. Just my opinion. Also, First Amendment.

You'd be wrong, and this has absolutely nothing to do with the First Amendment.

[Tayner]

As a man of African Decent. I think the flag at the memorial should stay flying BUT the one that flys atop the capital should be taken down and never put up again. It's important that we are reminded of the mistakes of the past to never make them again. Yes yes I know slavery but slavery has and is happened/Happening all around the world. Every Race has experienced Slavery in one way or another. Hell Africans did it to other Africans. But that makes no better. Also Don't this all comes as a distraction to something else that might enslave us economically?

The flag hasn't flown atop the capital building in fifteen years. People were having this same argument fifteen years ago and in a compromise they moved it to the memorial.

[Ifreann]

Well it can't be the Confederacy. Per Texas v. White unilateral secession is not legally possible in the US, so the Confederacy was never a state at all. And it can't be South Carolina, which I assume you meant, since, as previously, anyone flying a Confederate flag was surely not in military service to South Carolina, but to the rebels who occupied South Carolina.

*yawn*

Good point, I hadn't considered that.

---

As a man of African Decent. I think the flag at the memorial should stay flying BUT the one that flys atop the capital should be taken down and never put up again. It's important that we are reminded of the mistakes of the past to never make them again. Yes yes I know slavery but slavery has and is happened/Happening all around the world. Every Race has experienced Slavery in one way or another. Hell Africans did it to other Africans. But that makes no better. Also Don't this all comes as a distraction to something else that might enslave us economically?

The US still has museums and history classes, yes? No one will forget your civil war if you stop flying Confederate flags.

[Nazi Flower Power]

Ah yes, we as White people must remove all traces of our historical significance so that a few could feel "safer" in our country. South Carolina should continue to fly the Confederate battle flag as it symbolizes the Southern identity of self-government and independence that has pervaded the south since before the Revolution.

As a White, I consider this comment highly offensive towards my culture, because it claims that the whole legacy of the European cultures and ethnicities in the Americas is represented by a flag which unambiguously stood for slavery and exploitation.

It also conflates being white and Southern identity.

Good to know Yankees are not white. Should I start checking "other" when I fill out paperwork that asks for my race?

[Nazi Flower Power]

The flag can only be taken down if the General Assembly approves of it. It hasn't done that, so the flag will remain flying.

I support removing it as it is offensive to the African-American community (as well as all other Confederate monuments). It's also the flag of those who rebelled against the United States, so there should be no reason for it to be displayed on US government property.

It's state government property, not US government.

[Nazi Flower Power]

Ah yes, we as White people must remove all traces of our historical significance so that a few could feel "safer" in our country. South Carolina should continue to fly the Confederate battle flag as it symbolizes the Southern identity of self-government and independence that has pervaded the south since before the Revolution.

Hey, at least you're more honest than other Neoconfederates who try to claim that blacks were completely chill with the CSA.

I actually do appreciate the honesty, even though his opinion is wrong.

[The Liberated Territories]

Much ado about nothing.

[Nazi Flower Power]

The USA is a real country that's spend over 200 years doing various things. The CSA isn't, and really only ever started a war for slavery, and lost that war.

History is written by the victors and all that.

And sometimes the victors don't need to lie.

[Nazi Flower Power]

Why does it have a white border around it?

That design with the square flag and a border was flown in battle during the Civil War.

[Nazi Flower Power]

I agree.

The First Amendment doesn't protect hate speech,

Yes, it does.

[United Prefectures of Appia]

History is written by the victors and all that.

*Ahem*

"Our position is thoroughly identified with the institution of slavery-- the greatest material interest of the world. Its labor supplies the product which constitutes by far the largest and most important portions of commerce of the earth. These products are peculiar to the climate verging on the tropical regions, and by an imperious law of nature, none but the black race can bear exposure to the tropical sun. These products have become necessities of the world, and a blow at slavery is a blow at commerce and civilization. That blow has been long aimed at the institution, and was at the point of reaching its consummation. There was no choice left us but submission to the mandates of abolition, or a dissolution of the Union, whose principles had been subverted to work out our ruin."

"For the last ten years we have had numerous and serious causes of complaint against our non-slave-holding confederate States with reference to the subject of African slavery. They have endeavored to weaken our security, to disturb our domestic peace and tranquility, and persistently refused to comply with their express constitutional obligations to us in reference to that property, and by the use of their power in the Federal Government have striven to deprive us of an equal enjoyment of the common Territories of the Republic."

"We affirm that these ends for which this Government was instituted have been defeated, and the Government itself has been made destructive of them by the action of the non-slaveholding States. Those States have assume the right of deciding upon the propriety of our domestic institutions; and have denied the rights of property established in fifteen of the States and recognized by the Constitution; they have denounced as sinful the institution of slavery; they have permitted open establishment among them of societies, whose avowed object is to disturb the peace and to eloign the property of the citizens of other States."

"Texas was received as a commonwealth holding, maintaining and protecting the institution known as negro slavery-- the servitude of the African to the white race within her limits-- a relation that had existed from the first settlement of her wilderness by the white race, and which her people intended should exist in all future time."

[Repercussions of the Florida Recount]

It belongs in a museum. Put it there to get the appropriate amount of dust it deserves until it turns into dust itself.

[Parnassus]

I think Southerners who see it as a symbol of resistance and southerness should be pissed off at the racists who wave it around instead of the people who genuinely see it as a symbol of racism.

However, the hypocrisy of condemning that flag because it's associated with a government that supported slavery is mind-boggling.

In 11 days, most of those same people will shoot off fireworks and wave around a flag whose government committed racial genocide against millions of native people, instituted racial segregation for over 100 years after its "moral outrage" over slavery, firebombed and burned to death hundreds of thousands of woman and children, conducted medical experiments on minorities without their consent (while lying to them about their medical condition), invaded a sovereign country on fabricated information and against International Law, tortured hundreds of innocent people (and as the last VP said publicly, doesn't give a damn that 25% of them were completely innocent as long as they met their mission objectives), still imprisons innocent people at Guantanamo, and still denies fundamental human rights to large portions of its citizens... and they'll do so acting like they have the moral highground, just like they always do.

Hysterical pearl clutching aside, you forget that the US wasn't founded nearly exclusively for those purposes, like the Confederacy was.

That makes it a lot worse.

It's only "hysterical" and "a lot worse" when you're willing to ignore atrocities so long as they're committed by your own side, i.e. hypocrisy, and exactly my point.

And, I didn't "forget" anything.

Oh, I'm not suggesting any kind of Lost Cause nonsense. The leadership of the Confederacy absolutely believed in white supremacy and slavery. I'm not excusing Confederate faults. I'm pointing out the hypocrisy of the narrative many Americans tell themselves about it.

Did you ignore that part because it too didn't fit your narrative?