About Scientology... (no spam, no flames)

[Robustian]

I was a heavy cocaine user for 20 years and Scientology saved my life.
You don't have to belief everything what you read in the media 'bout Scientology, most of it is untrue. About the things that are true, I can tell you that there are bad apples in every big organisation or club.
Are all the forum people here honest, cute and lovely? No, they are not. Some people are big liars!

I wont' pretend to be an analyst.. but you should pay attention. One of the reasons that drugs addict people... that they attract people, is that they lack a purpose in their life that's anything beyond, shall we call it, hedonism. To use the principled terms, it means those individuals who find nothing to pursue in life, other than immediate gratification. After all, that's what it is, right? Sniff, instant orgasm, to be crude about it.

Whether scientology is "good" is not the point here. What changed your life is that you decided to pursue something... You became dedicated to something OTHER than the ultimate instant gratification. This is why charity... or service to others... is such an incredibly potent psycological remedy for many who suffer mental disorders or illness. You were attracted to the challenge, the promised discipline that promised to "fix" your life and your imperfect self.

In reality, scientology is crap. The leadership is corrupt, the organization akin to the mob. But all that was irrelevant, since what you sought was purpose, something to divert you from your obsession... in other words, a reason to be dedicated to something.

Scientology did not "save" you. You saved yourself by stumbling upon something to be devoted to, other than yourself. But don't allow it to destroy you. Scientology commands to control eventually your whole life, and yet, you will never achieve what is promised, because it's purely a fraud.

My advice would be to find a much better 'cause' than the enrichment of the pockets of a corrupt fake religion masquerading as even worse "science" as your means of salvation from drug abuse. Find a way to be devoted to improving OTHER people's lives, rather than the absolutely unattainable (because it's false) promises of scientology.

Not only can you save yourself from substance abuse and the entirely self centered destruction it brings, but you can also make a real difference in improving other people's lives, a legacy worthy of leaving behind once your life on this earth is done.

[The Tollan Resurgence]

The problem with Scientology is that it is a blatant construct. Take the Xenu story: 'Galactic Confederacy' sounds like a very Earth-ish, Star Trek-ish name to me. Hydrogen bombs- very 'now', especially for someone in the 1960s. Indeed, the Confederacy 75 mya just happened to be at the same level of civilisation as humans in the 1960s! How fortunate!

Then the nukes and volcanoes- surely there'd be some residual radiation or geological record left today. And the vacuum zones- what the hell were they, how the hell did they work, and how the hell is there no record in the Earth of their existence? As for the following Thetan indoctrination- how come Roman Catholicism (which L. Ron. specifically claimed was invented by Xenu- horrible, cultish, secretive organisation, that ) took 75 million years to materialise?

And why on Earth did you have to pay £4,000 to know all this? It's like a Bible: If you want to find out what happened to Jesus, get MarkPlus for only £19:99+p&p! It could easily be mistaken for a Pastafarian-style parody of organised religion, did it not make accusations about anti-Scientologists' sex lives.

Anyway, you were not there!

Next they'll try and make us believe that God had a son who grew up as a carpenter with a virgin mother and was eventually nailed to a piece of wood by some evil empire, but absolved us all of our sins in the process. How ridiculous!

This ^^

[New Manvir]

I was a heavy cocaine user for 20 years and Scientology saved my life.
You don't have to belief everything what you read in the media 'bout Scientology, most of it is untrue. About the things that are true, I can tell you that there are bad apples in every big organisation or club.
Are all the forum people here honest, cute and lovely? No, they are not. Some people are big liars!

I wont' pretend to be an analyst.. but you should pay attention. One of the reasons that drugs addict people... that they attract people, is that they lack a purpose in their life that's anything beyond, shall we call it, hedonism. To use the principled terms, it means those individuals who find nothing to pursue in life, other than immediate gratification. After all, that's what it is, right? Sniff, instant orgasm, to be crude about it.

Whether scientology is "good" is not the point here. What changed your life is that you decided to pursue something... You became dedicated to something OTHER than the ultimate instant gratification. This is why charity... or service to others... is such an incredibly potent psycological remedy for many who suffer mental disorders or illness. You were attracted to the challenge, the promised discipline that promised to "fix" your life and your imperfect self.

In reality, scientology is crap. The leadership is corrupt, the organization akin to the mob. But all that was irrelevant, since what you sought was purpose, something to divert you from your obsession... in other words, a reason to be dedicated to something.

Scientology did not "save" you. You saved yourself by stumbling upon something to be devoted to, other than yourself. But don't allow it to destroy you. Scientology commands to control eventually your whole life, and yet, you will never achieve what is promised, because it's purely a fraud.

My advice would be to find a much better 'cause' than the enrichment of the pockets of a corrupt fake religion masquerading as even worse "science" as your means of salvation from drug abuse. Find a way to be devoted to improving OTHER people's lives, rather than the absolutely unattainable (because it's false) promises of scientology.

Not only can you save yourself from substance abuse and the entirely self centered destruction it brings, but you can also make a real difference in improving other people's lives, a legacy worthy of leaving behind once your life on this earth is done.

This

EDIT:

Next they'll try and make us believe that God had a son who grew up as a carpenter with a virgin mother and was eventually nailed to a piece of wood by some evil empire, but absolved us all of our sins in the process. How ridiculous!

This ^^

Awesome, I got a "This"

[Bottle]

I was a heavy cocaine user for 20 years and Scientology saved my life.
You don't have to belief everything what you read in the media 'bout Scientology, most of it is untrue. About the things that are true, I can tell you that there are bad apples in every big organisation or club.
Are all the forum people here honest, cute and lovely? No, they are not. Some people are big liars!

I wont' pretend to be an analyst.. but you should pay attention. One of the reasons that drugs addict people... that they attract people, is that they lack a purpose in their life that's anything beyond, shall we call it, hedonism. To use the principled terms, it means those individuals who find nothing to pursue in life, other than immediate gratification. After all, that's what it is, right? Sniff, instant orgasm, to be crude about it.

Whether scientology is "good" is not the point here. What changed your life is that you decided to pursue something... You became dedicated to something OTHER than the ultimate instant gratification. This is why charity... or service to others... is such an incredibly potent psycological remedy for many who suffer mental disorders or illness. You were attracted to the challenge, the promised discipline that promised to "fix" your life and your imperfect self.

In reality, scientology is crap. The leadership is corrupt, the organization akin to the mob. But all that was irrelevant, since what you sought was purpose, something to divert you from your obsession... in other words, a reason to be dedicated to something.

Scientology did not "save" you. You saved yourself by stumbling upon something to be devoted to, other than yourself. But don't allow it to destroy you. Scientology commands to control eventually your whole life, and yet, you will never achieve what is promised, because it's purely a fraud.

My advice would be to find a much better 'cause' than the enrichment of the pockets of a corrupt fake religion masquerading as even worse "science" as your means of salvation from drug abuse. Find a way to be devoted to improving OTHER people's lives, rather than the absolutely unattainable (because it's false) promises of scientology.

Not only can you save yourself from substance abuse and the entirely self centered destruction it brings, but you can also make a real difference in improving other people's lives, a legacy worthy of leaving behind once your life on this earth is done.

As somebody who has dealt with addiction in many ways throughout life, I'd suggest that addicts not get involved with ANY religion during their recovery.

It's kind of like how most rehab programs forbid you to get into romantic relationships with the people who are helping you recover...you are in a very volatile, and vulnerable, state during your recovery. It is not responsible or safe for you to try to form a good relationship with somebody who is helping you through this process. And, more importantly, it is ABSOLUTELY INAPPROPRIATE for your sponsor or your mentor or your program leader to make a pass at you during this process. Anybody who does that is completely out of line and does NOT have your best interests at heart.

Similarly, anybody who tries to convert you during your recovery is out of line. They are taking advantage of you, pure and simple, and the kind of person who does that is a creep and a loser. They are not anybody you should respect or trust.

[Angleter]

The problem with Scientology is that it is a blatant construct. Take the Xenu story: 'Galactic Confederacy' sounds like a very Earth-ish, Star Trek-ish name to me. Hydrogen bombs- very 'now', especially for someone in the 1960s. Indeed, the Confederacy 75 mya just happened to be at the same level of civilisation as humans in the 1960s! How fortunate!

Then the nukes and volcanoes- surely there'd be some residual radiation or geological record left today. And the vacuum zones- what the hell were they, how the hell did they work, and how the hell is there no record in the Earth of their existence? As for the following Thetan indoctrination- how come Roman Catholicism (which L. Ron. specifically claimed was invented by Xenu- horrible, cultish, secretive organisation, that ) took 75 million years to materialise?

And why on Earth did you have to pay £4,000 to know all this? It's like a Bible: If you want to find out what happened to Jesus, get MarkPlus for only £19:99+p&p! It could easily be mistaken for a Pastafarian-style parody of organised religion, did it not make accusations about anti-Scientologists' sex lives.

Anyway, you were not there!

Next they'll try and make us believe that God had a son who grew up as a carpenter with a virgin mother and was eventually nailed to a piece of wood by some evil empire, but absolved us all of our sins in the process. How ridiculous!

Not enough Space. And the Empire needs to be at modern-standard civilisation (yes, Scientologist Jesus- Zurg, as I'm calling him- would be an emo wearing jeans).

[Spetsnazastan]

it seems to me that Scientology is geared toward the wealthy and middle class, due to its required membership fees. I think the reason that Christianity, Islam, Buddism, and Christianity target the common people due to their rhetoric of the poor recieving riches in heaven. This leads me to believe that the purpose of Christianity, Buddism, Islam, etc. is to keep the working class complacent and to keep them from bettering themselves. However, due to the copyright scientology has and the involuntary fees, I would guess that its purpose is to esnare the bourgeois and the wealthy and have them pay through the ranks before they even teach them, so they can profit more. I suppose to sum it up it seems like a religion that makes rich people feel better about their lives.

[The_pantless_hero]

As somebody who has dealt with addiction in many ways throughout life, I'd suggest that addicts not get involved with ANY religion during their recovery.

It's kind of like how most rehab programs forbid you to get into romantic relationships with the people who are helping you recover...you are in a very volatile, and vulnerable, state during your recovery. It is not responsible or safe for you to try to form a good relationship with somebody who is helping you through this process. And, more importantly, it is ABSOLUTELY INAPPROPRIATE for your sponsor or your mentor or your program leader to make a pass at you during this process. Anybody who does that is completely out of line and does NOT have your best interests at heart.

Similarly, anybody who tries to convert you during your recovery is out of line. They are taking advantage of you, pure and simple, and the kind of person who does that is a creep and a loser. They are not anybody you should respect or trust.

Which is funny because this is how all of the addiction treatment centers I know of work. Like every 12 Step program.

[Milks Empire]

From what I've read on it, the whole thing sounds like a big scam to enrich the L. Ron Hubbard family. Add onto that the mentally ill people who have died after Scientologists have convinced them to stop seeking professional help and the whole thing is beyond fishy.

[Bottle]

As somebody who has dealt with addiction in many ways throughout life, I'd suggest that addicts not get involved with ANY religion during their recovery.

It's kind of like how most rehab programs forbid you to get into romantic relationships with the people who are helping you recover...you are in a very volatile, and vulnerable, state during your recovery. It is not responsible or safe for you to try to form a good relationship with somebody who is helping you through this process. And, more importantly, it is ABSOLUTELY INAPPROPRIATE for your sponsor or your mentor or your program leader to make a pass at you during this process. Anybody who does that is completely out of line and does NOT have your best interests at heart.

Similarly, anybody who tries to convert you during your recovery is out of line. They are taking advantage of you, pure and simple, and the kind of person who does that is a creep and a loser. They are not anybody you should respect or trust.

Which is funny because this is how all of the addiction treatment centers I know of work. Like every 12 Step program.

Yeah, that's one of my biggest problems with AA and NA.

I was in NA for a bit (long story), and while I will always be thankful to my wonderful sponsor and the people who helped me, I have to say that I think the program over all is not a healthy or safe one because of the religious elements. I don't think it is responsible to be trying to push a religious agenda during somebody's recovery.

And, to be clear, I would not be okay with a program like NA pushing atheism, either, not the way they push theism. I don't think that religious choices--whether one is converting or "deconverting"--should be made into an integral part of your recovery, because I think that makes recovering addicts far too susceptible to exploitation.

[Venezia and Slovenia]

I think what you meant was 'A less charismatic Rasputin'

Hey, Rasputin got all the ladies. I'm not so sure that Valentinasia was as successful.

[Saaturia]

How does one grind for Thetans?

Heh heh. Grinding for Thetans...

[Robustian]

As somebody who has dealt with addiction in many ways throughout life, I'd suggest that addicts not get involved with ANY religion during their recovery.

It's kind of like how most rehab programs forbid you to get into romantic relationships with the people who are helping you recover...you are in a very volatile, and vulnerable, state during your recovery. It is not responsible or safe for you to try to form a good relationship with somebody who is helping you through this process. And, more importantly, it is ABSOLUTELY INAPPROPRIATE for your sponsor or your mentor or your program leader to make a pass at you during this process. Anybody who does that is completely out of line and does NOT have your best interests at heart.

Similarly, anybody who tries to convert you during your recovery is out of line. They are taking advantage of you, pure and simple, and the kind of person who does that is a creep and a loser. They are not anybody you should respect or trust.

Which is funny because this is how all of the addiction treatment centers I know of work. Like every 12 Step program.

Yeah, that's one of my biggest problems with AA and NA.

I was in NA for a bit (long story), and while I will always be thankful to my wonderful sponsor and the people who helped me, I have to say that I think the program over all is not a healthy or safe one because of the religious elements. I don't think it is responsible to be trying to push a religious agenda during somebody's recovery.

And, to be clear, I would not be okay with a program like NA pushing atheism, either, not the way they push theism. I don't think that religious choices--whether one is converting or "deconverting"--should be made into an integral part of your recovery, because I think that makes recovering addicts far too susceptible to exploitation.

You're arguing with success. There aren't more effective programs THAN NA and AA. There are people who use those to campaign for religions, but they're focused on the wrong thing. Any real Christian, for instance, understands that the first purpose is always to make other people's lives better. That faith is shared... when someone else wants to.

[Ifreann]

And why on Earth did you have to pay £4,000 to know all this? It's like a Bible: If you want to find out what happened to Jesus, get MarkPlus for only £19:99+p&p!

The Bible is available for free, legally, online. While one can get the Scientology docs online, if you're unlucky you'll have a horde of lawyers so far up your ass you'll be coughing up exorbitant bills.

[The_pantless_hero]

You're arguing with success. There aren't more effective programs THAN NA and AA. There are people who use those to campaign for religions, but they're focused on the wrong thing. Any real Christian, for instance, understands that the first purpose is always to make other people's lives better. That faith is shared... when someone else wants to.

Hockey horse. A major point of the program is admitting you are helpless and giving yourself up to some one who is more powerful than yourself. Yay, let's cult brainwash people! Maybe we should try empowering people next time in combination to the deprivation of the addictive substance.

[Dyakovo]

Wow, is this the return of Valentin 'Valentinasia' Selezynov? Do we finally get to hear the full theory of how the moon was used to seed life on earth?

Come off it, why would anyone who is the equal of Rachmaninoff post on a pathetic forum like this?

Well, he did it before...

[Maurepas]

What part was the lie? A little more detail is required or else I'll write this off as a joke...and laugh,

[Bottle]

You're arguing with success. There aren't more effective programs THAN NA and AA. There are people who use those to campaign for religions, but they're focused on the wrong thing. Any real Christian, for instance, understands that the first purpose is always to make other people's lives better. That faith is shared... when someone else wants to.

I don't consider it a "success" to ween somebody from one addiction onto another, so I'm not really impressed by the "success rates" boasted by many such programs.

[Brostkorgen]

Here's my two cents:

"I'd like to start a religion. That's where the money is." - L. Ron Hubbard to Lloyd Eshbach, in 1949; quoted by Eshbach in OVER MY SHOULDER: REFLECTIONS ON A SCIENCE FICTION ERA, Donald M. Grant Publisher. 1983

and this:

"Show me any person who is critical of us and I'll show you crimes and intended crimes that would stand a magistrate's hair on end." - L. Ron Hubbard, Hubbard Communications Office Bulletin, 4 April 1965

More here for your reading pleasure

[Takaram]

I know the Xenu story. Why haven't I died yet?

Cause Xenu is busy in a high-stakes poker game with Buddha, Yahweh, Mohammed and Vishnu.

What? Vishnu told me they weren't playing until next week!

What, damnit, I gotta go.
*Grabs wallet and runs off to play*

[Flameswroth]

You're arguing with success. There aren't more effective programs THAN NA and AA. There are people who use those to campaign for religions, but they're focused on the wrong thing. Any real Christian, for instance, understands that the first purpose is always to make other people's lives better. That faith is shared... when someone else wants to.

I don't consider it a "success" to ween somebody from one addiction onto another, so I'm not really impressed by the "success rates" boasted by many such programs.

Yeah, I can see that. Maybe it could be viewed as a step in and of itself. For instance, one could argue that nicotine patches simply switch the addiction from the cigarette to the patch. Then you can step down the patch size over time to the point where simply not using the patch is easy.

Similarly AA addicting you to "God" instead of alcohol could function the same way. It seems to me that it's much easier to give religiosity the boot than it is alcoholism. Granted that's not the reason they use the 'higher power' in the AA cycle, but one could use it that way. That just comes off as apologist in nature though, which really isn't far to either side.

As goofy as it sounds, I think the episode of South Park dealing with alcoholism was actually kind of touching, in its own crass way.

EDIT: And to tie it in to the subject of the thread, Stan Marsh accuses AA of being a mind-washing cult too, citing his own personal experience with such cults after having been pronounced the reincarnation of L. Ron Hubbard in the oft mentioned "Trapped in the Closet" episode that described Scientology.

[UnhealthyTruthseeker]

Scientology, however, demands that you spend years in the organisation and spend vast sums of cash before you can achieve the inner rank of Operating Thetan and discover the 'revealed truths'. I find that .... odd.

Probably because this is what they believe.

[Ashaven]

I've heard more negative comments about Scientology than the M-16, and I like to think that they're mostly right.

[Buffett and Colbert]

I was a heavy cocaine user for 20 years and Scientology saved my life.

[Bottle]

You're arguing with success. There aren't more effective programs THAN NA and AA. There are people who use those to campaign for religions, but they're focused on the wrong thing. Any real Christian, for instance, understands that the first purpose is always to make other people's lives better. That faith is shared... when someone else wants to.

I don't consider it a "success" to ween somebody from one addiction onto another, so I'm not really impressed by the "success rates" boasted by many such programs.

Yeah, I can see that. Maybe it could be viewed as a step in and of itself. For instance, one could argue that nicotine patches simply switch the addiction from the cigarette to the patch. Then you can step down the patch size over time to the point where simply not using the patch is easy.

Similarly AA addicting you to "God" instead of alcohol could function the same way. It seems to me that it's much easier to give religiosity the boot than it is alcoholism. Granted that's not the reason they use the 'higher power' in the AA cycle, but one could use it that way. That just comes off as apologist in nature though, which really isn't far to either side.

Hmm. You know, I hadn't thought of it that way, but that's actually not completely nuts.

The problem, I think, is that religion is pushed as something you're NOT supposed to ever give up. It's like if you were told that you were supposed to keep using the patch for the rest of your life, not gradually ween yourself off of it.

But really, using religion as a kind of "addiction patch" isn't inherently a terrible idea. If done right, that might be a decent way to go for some people. It wouldn't have worked with me, personally, and I don't think it would work for a lot of other addicts, but if it would work for even 1% of addicts then it'd be worth adding to the list of options...kicking drugs is a bitch and a half, and you kinda go with anything that works for you.

[The Archregimancy]

Scientology, however, demands that you spend years in the organisation and spend vast sums of cash before you can achieve the inner rank of Operating Thetan and discover the 'revealed truths'. I find that .... odd.

Probably because this is what they believe.

Oh, I'm quite familiar with Scientology precepts, thanks; though we undoubtedly have very different reasons for doing so, I'm quite with you for finding Scientology's core beliefs to be... somewhat unusual. In so far as I've engaged with this thread, I've been trying for that subtle combination of polite and faux naive.