Who was the Soviet Union's best leader?

[Andaluciae]

Chenenko, duh.

[Vetalia]

Chenenko, duh.

That is a creative interpretation of "best"...at best.

[Andaluciae]

Chenenko, duh.

That is a creative interpretation of "best"...at best.

I've set "best" as being equal to shortest.

Although Malenkov might also rank up there for never actually being fully and independently in charge.

[Vetalia]

I've set "best" as being equal to shortest.

Although Malenkov might also rank up there for never actually being fully and independently in charge.

I remember reading in Thompson's biography of Khruschev that the saying went "Malenkov came by, and we ate some blini.". He did drastically increase supplies of consumer goods and boost lagging agricultural production (ironically in opposition to Khrushchev's advocacy of heavy industry at the time), so he was pretty solid.

Of course, like any effective, competent Soviet leader he wound up banished to a hydroelectric plant in Kazakhstan.

[Vetalia]

I've set "best" as being equal to shortest.

Although Malenkov might also rank up there for never actually being fully and independently in charge.

I remember reading in Thompson's biography of Khruschev that the saying went "Malenkov came by, and we ate some blini.". He did drastically increase supplies of consumer goods and boost lagging agricultural production (ironically in opposition to Khrushchev's advocacy of heavy industry at the time), so he was pretty solid.

Of course, like any effective, competent Soviet leader he wound up banished to a hydroelectric plant in Kazakhstan.

[North Calaveras]

Vladimir Lenin

[Sel Appa]

Stalin for turning a shit hole into a first world power in 25 years.

Gorbachev was a pansy and an idiot.

[Sel Appa]

Stalin for turning a shit hole into a first world power in 25 years.

Gorbachev was a pansy and an idiot.

[Andaluciae]

Stalin for turning a shit hole into a first world power in 25 years.

Gorbachev was a pansy and an idiot.

Actually...for its duration the Soviet Union was "Second World".

[Grave_n_idle]

I do find myself wondering if Gorbachev is performing so strongly in the poll because he was the effective death knell of the Soviet Union... or just because a lot of NSer's probably have him as their only reference point?

I think that Gorby was about to save the Soviet Union... that's why so many people, within and without, worked so hard against him and eventually had him eliminated from the political scene.

I'm inclined to agree - since that's pretty much what happened to Khrushchev.

[Shofercia]

Gorbachev is obviously worst because ideal chance of turning collapse of Soviet Union and Eastern Bloc into massive bloodbath was completely missed. Stalin and Lenin are obviously best for all the millions of deaths of their own people that they helped to cause.

Yes, because the Eastern Bloc had such powerful organizations that could have caused those bloodbaths. And Lenin totally invented the Red Terror, the World declaring "Open Season" on Russia had nothing to do with that. And Stalin is clearly evil, he stopped Hitler, should've just let Hitler carry out his swell genocidal plans.

Hey look, I can be sarcastic too!

Hmmmmn... pretty accurate actually!

I doubt Hitler could've done a better job than Stalin did himself.

Max. Percentage of civilian population annihilated by Stalin: 10
Max. Percentage of civilian population annihilated by Hitler: 90

Clearly 10 > 90, amirite? (Hitler annihilate 90% of Jews in Nazi Germany. Stalin's "annihilations" were more a byproduct of his policies. I.e. the famine occurred due to Stalin's incompetence and distrust of the Kulaks. Had nothing to do with going after poor, poor Ukraine, but revisionists will tow their propaganda all the way.

Yes, because the Eastern Bloc had such powerful organizations that could have caused those bloodbaths.

Only thing that would had been needed was this on larger scale:

Yes, because infantry always succeeds against tanks. Oh wait....

Once again, a massive revolution against the Red Army would not have been possible. The only reason that the Red Army "lost" Afghanistan, was due to interference from the Kremlin, and lack of manpower and supplies.

And Lenin totally invented the Red Terror, the World declaring "Open Season" on Russia had nothing to do with that.

Nobody forced bolsheviks to make a coup, well except that their Imperial German financers would had probably been displeased if no progress had been made.

Umm, read up on history. The Revolution was in full swing before Lenin arrived.

And Stalin is clearly evil, he stopped Hitler, should've just let Hitler carry out his swell genocidal plans.

With all the mistakes and miscalculations that Stalin made, Hitler did almost succeed. And thats not even counting deaths he caused to his own people at peacetime.

Yes, because Stalin was the one who imposed draconian terms on Germany, (Versailles Treaty,) who let Hitler out of jail early, who personally gassed Hitler, and clearly he was the one who brainwashed Chamberlain to give Hitler Czechoslovakia. Stalin is also guilty of the Black Plaugue, the Native American Genocide, why not, if you have an imagination, let's keep on going....

Stalin for turning a shit hole into a first world power in 25 years.

Gorbachev was a pansy and an idiot.

Actually...for its duration the Soviet Union was "Second World".

A superb propaganda piece by the West. Call yourself the first World and your opponents the Second World. Then ask others which country they want to follow. Brilliant.

[South Norwega]

Stalin for turning a shit hole into a first world power in 25 years.

Gorbachev was a pansy and an idiot.

Actually...for its duration the Soviet Union was "Second World".

A superb propaganda piece by the West. Call yourself the first World and your opponents the Second World. Then ask others which country they want to follow. Brilliant.

The theory was the following: The Western World was the First World, the Soviet Union and the Eastern Bloc, and the Third World was all the neutral countries. The term originally had nothing to do with development.

However the fact that the Western World had GDPs averaging twice to three times that of the Soviet Union, clearly indicates that the Western World was more developed than the Eastern Bloc.

[Greed and Death]

Nikita Khrushchev because he visited the US for the sole purpose of getting drunk with John Wayne.

[Shofercia]

Stalin for turning a shit hole into a first world power in 25 years.

Gorbachev was a pansy and an idiot.

Actually...for its duration the Soviet Union was "Second World".

A superb propaganda piece by the West. Call yourself the first World and your opponents the Second World. Then ask others which country they want to follow. Brilliant.

The theory was the following: The Western World was the First World, the Soviet Union and the Eastern Bloc, and the Third World was all the neutral countries. The term originally had nothing to do with development.

However the fact that the Western World had GDPs averaging twice to three times that of the Soviet Union, clearly indicates that the Western World was more developed than the Eastern Bloc.

Umm, usually when you call something the First World, and something else the Second World, you are implying that the First World is better. Would you rather be first or second at the Olympics? BTW, I didn't say it had anything to do with development measured in GDP.

[South Norwega]

Stalin for turning a shit hole into a first world power in 25 years.

Gorbachev was a pansy and an idiot.

Actually...for its duration the Soviet Union was "Second World".

A superb propaganda piece by the West. Call yourself the first World and your opponents the Second World. Then ask others which country they want to follow. Brilliant.

The theory was the following: The Western World was the First World, the Soviet Union and the Eastern Bloc, and the Third World was all the neutral countries. The term originally had nothing to do with development.

However the fact that the Western World had GDPs averaging twice to three times that of the Soviet Union, clearly indicates that the Western World was more developed than the Eastern Bloc.

Umm, usually when you call something the First World, and something else the Second World, you are implying that the First World is better. Would you rather be first or second at the Olympics? BTW, I didn't say it had anything to do with development measured in GDP.

Well, the point is that according to most measures, the First World was better. Also, the United Nations has always thought that First World has something to do with GDP/GNP.

[Shofercia]

Stalin for turning a shit hole into a first world power in 25 years.

Gorbachev was a pansy and an idiot.

Actually...for its duration the Soviet Union was "Second World".

A superb propaganda piece by the West. Call yourself the first World and your opponents the Second World. Then ask others which country they want to follow. Brilliant.

The theory was the following: The Western World was the First World, the Soviet Union and the Eastern Bloc, and the Third World was all the neutral countries. The term originally had nothing to do with development.

However the fact that the Western World had GDPs averaging twice to three times that of the Soviet Union, clearly indicates that the Western World was more developed than the Eastern Bloc.

Umm, usually when you call something the First World, and something else the Second World, you are implying that the First World is better. Would you rather be first or second at the Olympics? BTW, I didn't say it had anything to do with development measured in GDP.

Well, the point is that according to most measures, the First World was better. Also, the United Nations has always thought that First World has something to do with GDP/GNP.

My point was that it was a brilliant propaganda piece. You are arguing about GDP. Congratulations, you destroyed my argument that cats are white, by arguing that dogs are black....

[Dyakovo]

Who was the Soviet Union's best leader and why?

That would depend upon your criteria for the best.

[South Norwega]

Stalin for turning a shit hole into a first world power in 25 years.

Gorbachev was a pansy and an idiot.

Actually...for its duration the Soviet Union was "Second World".

A superb propaganda piece by the West. Call yourself the first World and your opponents the Second World. Then ask others which country they want to follow. Brilliant.

The theory was the following: The Western World was the First World, the Soviet Union and the Eastern Bloc, and the Third World was all the neutral countries. The term originally had nothing to do with development.

However the fact that the Western World had GDPs averaging twice to three times that of the Soviet Union, clearly indicates that the Western World was more developed than the Eastern Bloc.

Umm, usually when you call something the First World, and something else the Second World, you are implying that the First World is better. Would you rather be first or second at the Olympics? BTW, I didn't say it had anything to do with development measured in GDP.

Well, the point is that according to most measures, the First World was better. Also, the United Nations has always thought that First World has something to do with GDP/GNP.

My point was that it was a brilliant propaganda piece. You are arguing about GDP. Congratulations, you destroyed my argument that cats are white, by arguing that dogs are black....

I'm not denying that. I'm arguing your cynicism that it was just propaganda. It has quite a solid basis in fact.

[Burchadinger]

Its good to see that all of them have at least 1 vote!

[Olmedreca]

And Lenin totally invented the Red Terror, the World declaring "Open Season" on Russia had nothing to do with that.

Nobody forced bolsheviks to make a coup, well except that their Imperial German financers would had probably been displeased if no progress had been made.

Umm, read up on history. The Revolution was in full swing before Lenin arrived.

Revolution was, but civil war, foreign intervention, and proper scale terror wasn't.

And Stalin is clearly evil, he stopped Hitler, should've just let Hitler carry out his swell genocidal plans.

With all the mistakes and miscalculations that Stalin made, Hitler did almost succeed. And thats not even counting deaths he caused to his own people at peacetime.

Yes, because Stalin was the one who imposed draconian terms on Germany, (Versailles Treaty,) who let Hitler out of jail early, who personally gassed Hitler, and clearly he was the one who brainwashed Chamberlain to give Hitler Czechoslovakia. Stalin is also guilty of the Black Plaugue, the Native American Genocide, why not, if you have an imagination, let's keep on going....

I guess you consider all Stalin's decisions good beyond any dispute, or you simply don't know anything about Soviet Union before and during WW II. Either way there is nothing to discuss.

[Shofercia]

Stalin for turning a shit hole into a first world power in 25 years.

Gorbachev was a pansy and an idiot.

Actually...for its duration the Soviet Union was "Second World".

A superb propaganda piece by the West. Call yourself the first World and your opponents the Second World. Then ask others which country they want to follow. Brilliant.

The theory was the following: The Western World was the First World, the Soviet Union and the Eastern Bloc, and the Third World was all the neutral countries. The term originally had nothing to do with development.

However the fact that the Western World had GDPs averaging twice to three times that of the Soviet Union, clearly indicates that the Western World was more developed than the Eastern Bloc.

Umm, usually when you call something the First World, and something else the Second World, you are implying that the First World is better. Would you rather be first or second at the Olympics? BTW, I didn't say it had anything to do with development measured in GDP.

Well, the point is that according to most measures, the First World was better. Also, the United Nations has always thought that First World has something to do with GDP/GNP.

My point was that it was a brilliant propaganda piece. You are arguing about GDP. Congratulations, you destroyed my argument that cats are white, by arguing that dogs are black....

I'm not denying that. I'm arguing your cynicism that it was just propaganda. It has quite a solid basis in fact.

I wouldn't say that. Arguing that your country is First World just because of GDP sounds pretty damn cynical and money-hungry. On the other hand it's perfect if you want to work for AIG.

And Lenin totally invented the Red Terror, the World declaring "Open Season" on Russia had nothing to do with that.

Nobody forced bolsheviks to make a coup, well except that their Imperial German financers would had probably been displeased if no progress had been made.

Umm, read up on history. The Revolution was in full swing before Lenin arrived.

Revolution was, but civil war, foreign intervention, and proper scale terror wasn't.

Proper scale terror wasn't? Oh boy. Civil War wasn't? Riiight. Foreign Intervention wasn't? Who intervened to bring Lenin in? Wasn't it a foreign country bringing Lenin into Russia, before Lenin was in the country? Thank you once again for showing us your superb knowledge of the facts.

And Stalin is clearly evil, he stopped Hitler, should've just let Hitler carry out his swell genocidal plans.

With all the mistakes and miscalculations that Stalin made, Hitler did almost succeed. And thats not even counting deaths he caused to his own people at peacetime.

Yes, because Stalin was the one who imposed draconian terms on Germany, (Versailles Treaty,) who let Hitler out of jail early, who personally gassed Hitler, and clearly he was the one who brainwashed Chamberlain to give Hitler Czechoslovakia. Stalin is also guilty of the Black Plaugue, the Native American Genocide, why not, if you have an imagination, let's keep on going....

I guess you consider all Stalin's decisions good beyond any dispute, or you simply don't know anything about Soviet Union before and during WW II. Either way there is nothing to discuss.

I'm just pointing out that Stalin wasn't the only one who fucked up. I apologize for using facts to intervene with your Stalin bashing, please continue.

I don't consider all of Stalin's decisions "beyond dispute". He purged the army and he built fortifications too close to the front, he didn't follow through on the Partisan integration. However you are going on a bashing spree, without mentioning any facts. I just thought that facts might interest you, once again, I apologize for the inconvenience.

[Aligned Planets]

Mrs Thatcher, obviously ;-)

[Conserative Morality]

I wouldn't say that. Arguing that your country is First World just because of GDP sounds pretty damn cynical and money-hungry. On the other hand it's perfect if you want to work for AIG.

Eh, what? GDP is often associated with the standard of living.

[Allbeama]

Um, none? The Soviet Union abandoned real Marxist principles the moment Lenin came on the scene.

I vote with Krop. The Soviet Union had no good leaders, only leaders that may not have been as evil as Stalin. And not as evil as Stalin still seems not so good.

[Burchadinger]

Mrs Thatcher, obviously ;-)