MRA's: Fighting for Men or Fighting Against Women?

[Murkwood]

What's wrong with what I wrote?

>blames a whole group for the actions of some individuals
>says you can't blame a whole group for the actions of some individuals

I didn't blame all or even most feminists for the radicalization of the feminist movement. A small group of people radicalized it, and others tagged along.

[Degenerate Heart of HetRio]

Feminism is fighting for "all genders"? Oh, come on.

Well, kinda, most trans men and non-binary people I know from my own country happen to be very feminist, too.

It doesn't tend to be about cis men, though, because they aren't systemically/structurally oppressed and once we abolish gender essentialism we can solve men's issues as a question of human rights in general.

[SektorE]

Men have right for their own organizations too. If feminists want equality then they should approve this.

The Men's Rights Movement doesn't really care about equality. So, nope.

And feminists do?

[Nervium]

The Men's Rights Movement doesn't really care about equality. So, nope.

Then ban the radfems too. That'll make it right!

No?

[Murkwood]

The common reaction you will receive if you're an MRA is people thinking you hate women. It's not as bad was what trans people face, but it's still bad.

There's a reason for that.

MRA's don't hate women. They don't.

[Allentyr]

Then ban the radfems too. That'll make it right!

No?

Why not? Why won't you ban the radical feminists?

[SektorE]

Feminism is fighting for "all genders"? Oh, come on.

Well, kinda, most trans men and non-binary people I know from my own country happen to be very feminist, too.

It doesn't tend to be about cis men, though, because they aren't systemically/structurally oppressed and once we abolish gender essentialism we can solve men's issues as a question of human rights in general.

Because feminism is forced upon men who want overall equality. Why is feminism became the only way to fight for equality for men? Something is totally wrong.

[The Shrailleeni Empire]

Men have right for their own organizations too. If feminists want equality then they should approve this.

I wholeheartedly agree with the idea behind this, but MRA is not the organization that men need. I have seen a lot of them, and none of them strike me as particularly progressive or helpful. They focus almost entirely on tearing down feminism, which they define as "all feminism regardless of its radicalism." There is no effort to actually help men with male issues, even on subjects where they seem to agree such as "unjust rape accusations" and child custody (the only things that they actually seem to care about changing).

[Dyakovo]

The Men's Rights Movement doesn't really care about equality. So, nope.

And feminists do?

Yes.

[Degenerate Heart of HetRio]

And feminists do?

Do you think men need help?

It's funny, for centuries you said that you were the strong, valorous ones and men without that quality were "womanly", and now you need women to fight for your rights.

[Aurora Novus]

I've never been one to support gendered movements, and the MRM is no different. But I've yet to see any compelling evidence that they are a hate group. Most of the times I see this claim made it's just propaganda and slander from Feminists looking to demonize the movement. But then again, the MRM puts out it's own fair share of propaganda against Feminists. Both of you sound like petulant children to me.

In my mind, both MRAs and Feminists are just as bad. So if you want to call the MRM a hate group...well, I disagree, but alright. Let's call them a hate group. Gives me cause to call Feminism a hate group as well, which would aid in driving my point home of abandoning these movements.

[Space Murica]

Like feminists it depends on the person. They do have some valid points, usually when it comes to things like child custody favoring women. To me the majority seem to be the kind of type that want to repeal some feminist reforms, but some of them do point to some legitimate flaws in the system that need to see some adjustment.

[Dyakovo]

There's a reason for that.

MRA's don't hate women. They don't.

[Blasveck]

This thread is full of stupid.

MRAs hate women. Simple as that.

[SektorE]

And feminists do?

Do you think men need help?

It's funny, for centuries you said that you were the strong, valorous ones and men without that quality were "womanly", and now you need women to fight for your rights.

40% of domestic violence sufferers are men. Men simply can't fight back because of "you can't hit women thing"

[Sdaeriji]

>blames a whole group for the actions of some individuals
>says you can't blame a whole group for the actions of some individuals

I didn't blame all or even most feminists for the radicalization of the feminist movement. A small group of people radicalized it, and others tagged along.

You just did again. You're remarkably bad at this.

[Aquillus]

Well, kinda, most trans men and non-binary people I know from my own country happen to be very feminist, too.

It doesn't tend to be about cis men, though, because they aren't systemically/structurally oppressed and once we abolish gender essentialism we can solve men's issues as a question of human rights in general.

Because feminism is forced upon men who want overall equality. Why is feminism became the only way to fight for equality for men? Something is totally wrong.

I think you confusing actual feminism and what it is often misrepresented as, particularly on the internet.

[Grenartia]

Exactly. Though I'd replace the custody inequalities with rape justice inequalities, as the reason more men don't get custody of their kids is because they don't seek custody.

But I digress.

They had their chance, failed, and started going after the group that, for the most part, is actually fighting for equality for all genders (and doing so successfully, and, not actually alienating any supporters).

We should not allow the MRAs to claim that they speak for men, especially when there are alternatives. Namely, MRAs represent a splinter from the men's movement, which was started in the 60s with direct inspiration from the second-wave feminist movement. They were the political allies of feminists from the very beginning, and were not in anyway opposed to feminism.

So, they're basically the men's version of the "KILL ALL MEN" feminazis? Yeah, I can get behind that.

[Murkwood]

Men have right for their own organizations too. If feminists want equality then they should approve this.

I wholeheartedly agree with the idea behind this, but MRA is not the organization that men need. I have seen a lot of them, and none of them strike me as particularly progressive or helpful. They focus almost entirely on tearing down feminism, which they define as "all feminism regardless of its radicalism." There is no effort to actually help men with male issues, even on subjects where they seem to agree such as "unjust rape accusations" and child custody (the only things that they actually seem to care about changing).

Where do you get off saying there is no effort to change those things? Have you even seen some MRA communities? There is a lot of whining sure, but there is also people trying to change things for the better.

[Nervium]

The Men's Rights Movement doesn't really care about equality. So, nope.

And feminists do?

From Wikipedia, and I'll give the sauce with it too:

The men's rights movement (MRM) is a part of the larger men's movement. It branched off from the men's liberation movement in the early 1970s. The men's rights movement contests claims that men have greater power, privilege or advantage than women and focuses on what it considers to be issues of male disadvantage, discrimination and oppression.[1][2] The MRM is considered to be a backlash or countermovement to feminism, often as a result of a perceived threat to traditional gender roles.[3]

Emphasis mine.
Traditional gender roles are inherently opposed to the idea of gender equality.

[Murkwood]

This thread is full of stupid.

MRAs hate women. Simple as that.

*sigh* Do you have to generalize a whole group?

[Degenerate Heart of HetRio]

Both sides are morons focused on making one better than the other. They should both be abolished.

Yes, thank you. Both groups should just stop and get along.

You should try first. I talked to radfems once and they called me by a new slur that translates as something in the lines of "walking/talking dick".

[The Union of the West]

Both sides are morons focused on making one better than the other. They should both be abolished.

This^^^

[Blasveck]

This thread is full of stupid.

MRAs hate women. Simple as that.

*sigh* Do you have to generalize a whole group?

I didn't say all, did I?

In any case, I haven't met one MRA group that doesn't hate women in some form or another.

[Nanatsu no Tsuki]

Threads like this only serve to cement the fact that many MRAs are insane.