Which God?

[Muravyets]

*sigh*

Did anyone here actually go to school for religion and theology? Thought not.

<snip presentation based on apparent odd assumption that Christianity = religion>

Yeah, that's nice and all for ONE religion. But Christianity is not the sum total of "religion" or "theology" and when the OP asks what god he/she should worship, your religion is not the only available answer.

But I do agree that there are no missing books of the Bible. There are books that the compilers of the Bible decided not to include, but then that makes them not-Bible, not missing parts of the Bible. So people who disagree with the decision not to include them should refer to them as books that should be in the Bible, not missing Bible books.

[Muravyets]

I can answer a simple question, critically - perhaps. My post of prose was not intended to answer your question in the post that preceded mine, as I had not read it.

My answer is simple, as well: you cannot convince somebody to do or believe anything if they do not want to. If it really meant all that much to you, you would do study on your own to develop your views. This thread was started in complete and utter sarcasm, and I responded with my own personal beliefs. You don't agree? That is fine. It is not, however, and never has been my duty to convince you of my beliefs. Your beliefs and their basis are your own issue.

Besides, let's be honest, you don't really care anyways.

The enlarged part is entirely true, and that's why evangelism is so annoying.

[Muravyets]

There is only one God, His names are many - but His character is singular. He is a just God, an honest God, and an almighty God. His power knows no bounds. He shows His strength by letting mortal man choose his own path. He is a God of love, for He wishes that all men be brought to a knowledge of His own clear salvation.

Claiming everyone else's gods to be your own is extremely insulting to other beliefs, and that is never going to end well.

Indeed. It's that kind of self-serving revisionism which seeks to retroactively redefine everyone's beliefs so that they fit what the speaker desires -- a kind of instant global conversion, bingo! -- that really pisses me off because it's...well... god-moding, in a way, isn't it? If we can pardon the expression.

[Hydesland]

Thirded, and I am a Christian.

Some Christians have it a lot easier than others, some have it a lot harder. I don't know what it is with Americans on NSG constantly projecting their society onto everyone else's, it fucking pisses me off. Christians can have very difficult lives in Britain, their sex lives can be destroyed, they can be constantly subject to ridicule in school, they can have very restricted and sheltered lives that makes it difficult for them to interact with others in the future. Not all communities are friendly to Christians, even in a country where the majority are Christians. NSG is a community which can be very disproportionately vitriolic to Christians, I'd find it hard if I really was a devout Christian to engage with this community for instance.

[Muravyets]

Claiming everyone else's gods to be your own is extremely insulting to other beliefs, and that is never going to end well.

Ah, yes, but others would make the same claim; if they are insulted, that would truly be hypocritical. I, however, am not offended when they make the same claim. Wonder why...

Perhaps because when you hear them making such claims, you are dreaming and when you wake up it all goes away.

I mean, no, not all others are going to make the same arrogant and presumptuous claim. Just as I will thank you not to convert my gods into your god because you can't convert me into a follower of your god, I will also thank you not to project your faults onto me and others as well.

[Abdju]

it's...well... god-moding, in a way, isn't it? If we can pardon the expression.

That was good

[Our Lady GaGa]

Works are evidence of Faith, but it's work that saves. Just like it's not fingerprints that kill.

There haven't been any miracles for 2000 years.

The every day so called 'miracles' are just works of man.

Your god died, gods may be mortal, but gods not impervious to death.

Teehee! Silly doggy! I know living miracles, I go to a church so I hear miracles every Sunday, I read about them in the paper, MY LIFE is a living miracle and I intend to let the world know that! God has saved my life more than once and I am proud to say that without him I would be dead or be one of the left-wing atheists right in this forum. So whether you believe in God or not doesn't matter, the truth is that miracles DO happen and if people followed the ways of the Bible more would happen.

Also, generally speaking, God's can't die, that's just common logic. USE IT!

And you call yourself a Soviet. *spits*

[Tagmatium]

And you call yourself a Soviet. *spits*

A nation's name does not necessarily reflect the player's views, especially if created for RP purposes.

[Muravyets]

[We can safely say, with a certain amount of confidence, that god does not seem to care if atrocities are committed in his or her name.

This can be surmised by the fact that atrocities are committted in god's name with no apparent punishment from supernatural deities.

Except for the continual decay of society, new diseases, and rampant discord - I'd agree with you. What do you expect? God to come down and spank the person? Maybe zap him with some lightning?

I'd say being trapped in human form and having to deal with the ravages of time and society is pretty painful, not to mention the reward or lack thereof in the afterlife.

Punishment may not always come when we think it should, either. To a God Who has no beginning and ending, time is irrelevant, therefore He may act whenever He so chooses.

Thought experiment: Let's assume for one moment that really is no such thing as a god of any kind, including the Abrahamic God. Just does not exist. At all. Ever. Got that? Okay.

Now, tell me this: In a universe with no god, do you believe that atrocities would not cause life to suck, or that life would not get better if people stopped committing atrocities?

Here's the reason I ask: The statement was that atrocities are committed in God's name and God does not punish the wrongdoers. You answer that the suckiness of life caused by atrocities IS God's punishment for said atrocities.

This implies that you think that atrocities only suck because God doesn't like them. So, if that's the case, then if there were no god, would atrocities be fun for everyone?

Alternatively, it suggests that you think life can only get better or worse if your God does something about it. If so, then if there is no god, but people stop committing atrocities, do you think that will make no difference to the number of people dying and otherwise suffering?

[Muravyets]

you are right. there is also Tengri

I haven't caught up with the whole thread yet, but up to this point, you have obviously been itching for a response, so here's the question that first popped into my head when I saw your first post, recommending both Yehova and Tengri:

As they are both sky gods, and Yehova is, by the claims of his worshippers and prophets, a particularly jealous one who does not play well with other gods, wouldn't it be difficult to worship BOTH of them simultaneously?

I don't know how Tengri would feel about it, but I would think Yehova would take exception. Sky gods typically being quite active and involved deities, I would think annoying one would be an unwise thing to do. Better, surely to pick just one?

[EVIL BEYOND COMPARE]

well it doesn't really matter because all religions will lead you to become moralistic and a good person, even if you have the wrong God the rite God will see that you have done well and reward you.

[Kobrania]

well it doesn't really matter because all religions will lead you to become moralistic and a good person, even if you have the wrong God the rite God will see that you have done well and reward you.

And if you are a moral person without need for a god to guide you during your life?

[Turanbirligi]

a gay cant be moral

[Abdju]

Some Christians have it a lot easier than others, some have it a lot harder. I don't know what it is with Americans on NSG constantly projecting their society onto everyone else's, it fucking pisses me off.

Seconded. Though I would factor in this the fact that Christianity pretty much requires it's followers to do this, and you get a lot of it here (London) too, so I think it's more due to the Christianity than the American-ness (not a word, but should be).

Christians can have very difficult lives in Britain,

Not really. They are the only religion to have an official representation in the upper house, they run a sizeable chunk of our schools, get guaranteed time for their religion in all schools they don't run, and have a historical legacy that leaves them with huge wealth and real estate holdings across the entire country. No other religion in this country has the money, power and influence they do.

their sex lives can be destroyed,

Mostly by their own beliefs. Christians are far more screwed up about sex because of Biblical teachings about it rather than people not wanting to have sex with Christians.

they can be constantly subject to ridicule in school,

People with any religion get ridiculed in school. That's school. At uni level, Christians invariably have the largest and most organised of the faith-based students organisations.

they can have very restricted and sheltered lives that makes it difficult for them to interact with others in the future.

This is only applicable to those who follow an extremist/isolationist/cult church, such as MJA, where the cultish aspect, not the Christian religion are the issue. Mainstream Christians are WAY less likely to suffer this than mainstream followers of any other religion.

Not all communities are friendly to Christians, even in a country where the majority are Christians. NSG is a community which can be very disproportionately vitriolic to Christians, I'd find it hard if I really was a devout Christian to engage with this community for instance.

No, but you can't make people be your friend. If they are actively hostile against you then you have remit to the courts, and within the UK there is no real judicial bias against Christian groups. If people don't want to befriend you, then leave them alone. A lot of Muslim and Hindu anger against Christian groups is the interference in these communities by Christians (unwanted missionary work, targeted preaching etc.), and in the case of Muslims, by recent aggression against their culture and homelands, perpetuated by an overtly Christian aggressor.

[Muravyets]

well it doesn't really matter because all religions will lead you to become moralistic and a good person, even if you have the wrong God the rite God will see that you have done well and reward you.

Okay, that's a good try, but... well... it only works if you are citing it as the reason you are going to reject the evangelism that some religions require and instead take up a regimen of keeping your nose out of other people's business altogether, letting god(s), the universe, and everything sort it all out in the fullness of time.

Also, I think you just opened yourself up to days and days of certain of our more atheistic fellow posters jumping all over you for that "moralistic and good person" remark. Good luck weathering that storm.

[Abdju]

a gay cant be moral

Silence. Adults are talking.

[Muravyets]

a gay cant be moral

Do you have a list of random remarks that you pull these things from?




(edited because, yeah, I really don't want to encourage that shit.)

[Turanbirligi]

a gay cant be moral

Do you have a list of random remarks that you pull these things from?




(edited because, yeah, I really don't want to encourage that shit.)

from my brain

[Dyakovo]

a gay cant be moral

Why not?

[Kobrania]

a gay cant be moral

I don't support people who carry waepons, I give almost all my earnings to charity and live in borderline poverty.

Is that moral enough for you?

[Muravyets]

a gay cant be moral

Do you have a list of random remarks that you pull these things from?




(edited because, yeah, I really don't want to encourage that shit.)

from my brain

Well, why don't you lay the coughing out of random flamebait aside for the moment and apply your brain to the question I posed about the conflict of interest issues in worshipping both Yehova and Tengri?

[Turanbirligi]

because its against the natural laws.

[Muravyets]

because its against the natural laws.

Sigh. I think I'll just let you lie until you figure out how to use this forum.

[Tagmatium]

because its against the natural laws.

Really?

Where did you get that nice big book of "natural laws" from?

[Kobrania]

because its against the natural laws.

What natural laws, are wolves, dolphins and essentially most higher animal lifeforms inherently immoral then?