Which God?

[Callisdrun]

I have posed this very question several times over the years, and been quite sincere about it. I've sat down with believers and told them that if they can honestly explain to me why I should worship their God then I'll give it all the fair consideration I can.

I've yet to be given any convincing reason to believe in any God. The best most people can come up with is something about the afterlife, but I don't particularly want an afterlife so that's not really a good bargaining chip with me. They sometimes try to threaten me with Hell or something, but that tends to backfire because I'm not willing to worship a being who would torture otherwise-innocent people for all eternity simply because they didn't worship correctly.

I've never liked religions that beat people over the head with threats of a bad afterlife. It was actually what drove me away from Christianity, not the implausibility of that particular god existing. I didn't find him worthy of worship. To me, a being that would punish us for not guessing correctly on something with so little to go on, is an asshole, not somebody to idolize.

However, I became a pagan, not an atheist. I'm a spiritual person, and it's a lot more fun and meaningful to me. I can't blame others for not believing the same as I do, though. What people actually DO is more important, to me, than what they believe. Besides, it would be boring if everyone thought the same thing as I do.

[Soviet Commu-Facism]

I'm not talking in terms of WW2 my friend. And besides, I have heard many people refer to America as a Fascist nation! Besides, how am I not following it right? I have the economics of Communism, and the belief in a race of perfect people ruling above all from the Fascist side. What did I do wrong? I invented this kind of Commu-Fascism! It should be called; Sithian Commu-Fascism. There! I have named my politics!

Since communism is based on the equality of all people, but fascism is based on a structure, where some (theoretically the best) are leading, there´s a contradiction in commu-fascism, means, it´s a impossibility...while favoring some "superior" race is simply racism, not fascism.
Communism is meant to be the ruling of the masses (of everyone), but fascism bundles the power for a few (rulers)...
In history both systems invented some governmental planned and controled economics, quite similar to each other (in the outcome, not in the meaning).
You´ve been bragging about some political classes in school, you might debate your cause there, but I assure you, they will tell you the same. While it´s no problem to name a nation however you want to here in NS, in real life there´s no such thing as commu-fascism, because it´s a contradiction in itself.

Ah. It is called COMMU-FACISM for a reason! It is bits and pieces thrown together, NOT HALF AND HALF! That's why I say I created it! There is also an element of anarchy involved in which if someone is not strong enough to keep something like a material item, a rank in society, their life, etc. then they do not deserve it. However, if someone is strong enough to get something, than they do! Now, This society is not totally like that because there are no rules as to how you keep power, control, etc. If you can control legions of soldiers by sheer speech and they can defend you, you deserve that. However, this society dictates that all people are equal, unless they are in government, then they are superior. This can be attributed to Fascism and Stalinist Communism which was derived from Communism. However, realistically, there must always be someone in control or else everything falls apart. This society only allows one supreme leader to control EVERYTHING, which is an aspect of Fascism or Monarchy even. Also, racism is against specific groups of humans, but this society is against only one group and that is those who are imperfect. The "perfect" people are very few, that is why the people in the middle are turned into perfect people. That is my roleplay society, but there is MUCH more. Just to add as well, some of the ideals placed in this society are derived from the Sith in Star Wars.

[Soviet Commu-Facism]

I have posed this very question several times over the years, and been quite sincere about it. I've sat down with believers and told them that if they can honestly explain to me why I should worship their God then I'll give it all the fair consideration I can.

I've yet to be given any convincing reason to believe in any God. The best most people can come up with is something about the afterlife, but I don't particularly want an afterlife so that's not really a good bargaining chip with me. They sometimes try to threaten me with Hell or something, but that tends to backfire because I'm not willing to worship a being who would torture otherwise-innocent people for all eternity simply because they didn't worship correctly.

I've never liked religions that beat people over the head with threats of a bad afterlife. It was actually what drove me away from Christianity, not the implausibility of that particular god existing. I didn't find him worthy of worship. To me, a being that would punish us for not guessing correctly on something with so little to go on, is an *******, not somebody to idolize.

However, I became a pagan, not an atheist. I'm a spiritual person, and it's a lot more fun and meaningful to me. I can't blame others for not believing the same as I do, though. What people actually DO is more important, to me, than what they believe. Besides, it would be boring if everyone thought the same thing as I do.

Just to clarify, God warned us that those things are wrong, so if someone goes to Hell for it, it's their own fault for not listening! It's like a parent telling a child not to play in traffic. Would you stop respecting your parents for telling you not to play in traffic? Besides, parents punish us for doing bad things too, would you hate them for that? And "not worthy of your worship"? Not trying to be mean, but who do you think you are? What are, the creator of God? Only a self-centered jerk that's world revolves around them would say that. Sorry to say, but you have no humility whatsoever. Even if God was "worthy" of your praise, I don't think he would want it coming from such a vain person. You are talking about the God that created the universe, and your saying that becasue he punishes people he isn't worthy of praise? Okay, I guess all those murderers and rapists should go to heavan! Oh, and lets send Hitler there too, and while we're at it, lets send that guy from Cambodia there too! Yeah, really brilliant ideas. If anyone thinks I was trying to be an offensive jerk, don't even bother replying to this. Come on people, lets think for a minute that there is beyond all doubt a God, scientifically proven and all, do you see how narcistic what what he said is? I don't care what God he could have said that about, that's just plain egotistic.

[Dyakovo]

It's like a parent telling a child not to play in traffic.

I'll buy that comparison when you prove to me that your god exists.

[The Alma Mater]

Just to clarify, God warned us that those things are wrong, so if someone goes to Hell for it, it's their own fault for not listening! It's like a parent telling a child not to play in traffic.

Unless the parents created the traffic and deliberately made sure it runs right past their house and adamantly refuse to explain to the kids WHY they should not play in the traffic, that comparison fails.

Besides, many of us are now "teenagers". Rebelling and such. If God is anything like human parents he is probably far prouder of the rebel nonbelievers than of the docile followers that merely do as he says.

[Bottle]

Just to clarify, God warned us that those things are wrong, so if someone goes to Hell for it, it's their own fault for not listening! It's like a parent telling a child not to play in traffic.

Sure, if the parents 1) created the traffic, 2) directed the traffic directly through the child's favorite playground, 3) spoke so softly that you wouldn't be able to hear unless you listened very, very closely, and 4) only spoke to one of their children and expected the others to get the message somehow anyway.

Would you stop respecting your parents for telling you not to play in traffic? Besides, parents punish us for doing bad things too, would you hate them for that?

If my parents grounded me FOR ALL ETERNITY for something? Hell yes I'd hate them, because that would be completely out of proportion with anything I could possibly do in this mortal lifetime.

And "not worthy of your worship"? Not trying to be mean, but who do you think you are? What are, the creator of God?

I have as much reason to believe that I created God as I have to believe anything else.

Only a self-centered jerk that's world revolves around them would say that. Sorry to say, but you have no humility whatsoever.

Says the guy who is presuming to lecture all of us on the nature of God.

I love this perspective.

"A person who says that they do not know whether or not God exists and therefore will refrain from claiming to have knowledge of God is CLEARLY less humble than somebody who claims to know the nature of God despite having no evidence whatsoever and who expects everyone to believe them while simultaneously offering absolutely nothing whatsoever to support their claims."

Even if God was "worthy" of your praise, I don't think he would want it coming from such a vain person. You are talking about the God that created the universe, and your saying that becasue he punishes people he isn't worthy of praise? Okay, I guess all those murderers and rapists should go to heavan!

According to Christian theology, rapists and murderers have a better shot at heaven than I do. A rapist or murderer can repent and "find God" on their deathbed and hey-presto, they get eternal bliss. Me, I can live my whole life as a moral person, helping to cure disease and make the world a safer place, being kind or generous or helpful to my fellow humans, and none of it will matter because I don't bow before the correct idol...I'm sorry, IMAGE...of the Christian God.

Oh, and lets send Hitler there too, and while we're at it, lets send that guy from Cambodia there too! Yeah, really brilliant ideas. If anyone thinks I was trying to be an offensive jerk, don't even bother replying to this.

I don't think you were trying to be an offensive jerk, I think it's just a byproduct of your self-centered, ignorant, and yes, extremely arrogant world-view.

Come on people, lets think for a minute that there is beyond all doubt a God, scientifically proven and all, do you see how narcistic what what he said is? I don't care what God he could have said that about, that's just plain egotistic.

If your God were proven, beyond any doubt, to exist, I still wouldn't worship it. I would regard it as a dangerous and evil force, and I would spend my life trying to find a way to escape it and help others escape it. I would do so knowing that I would fail, and that I would be punished for it, but burning in a lake of fire is still less of a torment than being trapped for eternity with your celestial dead-beat dad.

[Bottle]

Besides, many of us are now "teenagers". Rebelling and such. If God is anything like human parents he is probably far prouder of the rebel nonbelievers than of the docile followers that merely do as he says.

Also a good point.

I think we've all probably encountered one of those parents who keeps acting like their child is a toddler, even after that child is in their teens or twenties. Parents who keep trying to use authoritarian parenting even after the kid has moved out. Parents who refuse to interact with their child as if he/she were a full person, but instead act like the child owes them the sort of obedience that we normally reserve for pets.

Where I come from, we call those "shitty parents."

[Coffin-Breathe]

Ha! I admit, I had a good chuckle on this one.

Now. Ask Him for real.

Well, he asked me; while I´ve never heard or being asked by you, I appreciate his effort for clearance, and thus I answered to him :"Hear my word, child - you´re right, that this one who calls himself Cross-R(h)oad(e)s is wrong. Now go and deny my existence as you did before, `cause, child, you should know I´ve got enough bigot and crazy theists over there, and they somehow really become annoying; imagine, some of them even dare to claim to know - well, so I go for the Atheists now, `cause although they´re denying my shere existence they are more honest in doing this than all of my followers in worshipping me. Well, my child, and because I know about their human arrogance and ignorance, which would make them doubting me stating here, you should point out, that they simply have to believe (while not waving the eternal damnation whip here, humans don´t even have any imagination of eternity - in fact, this is only a slightly varied copy of the basic statement, as given in many so-called miracles before)."
And now, please let me alone in my beloved eternity and don´t always pray and demand, as meanwhile you should have learned that I don´t give a damn (haha, funny joke) for you or your devotion or not - oh, yeah, and don´t always insult me for claiming me to have made some sort of "intelligent design". Do you call me an idiot ?

[Coffin-Breathe]

My answer is simple, as well: you cannot convince somebody to do or believe anything if they do not want to.

...but you can stone him/her to death, burn him/her at the stake or drown him/her in water or bomb them to wherever...just a few examples backed up by former and nowadays acts of "believers"...

[Cirona]

Stewie. Stewart Gilligan Griffin. He's amazing.

[Bottle]

My answer is simple, as well: you cannot convince somebody to do or believe anything if they do not want to. If it really meant all that much to you, you would do study on your own to develop your views.

Again with the arrogance of assuming you know my mind better than I do.

I've actually thought a lot on this subject, and done more research on theology and religion than 99% of the religious people in the world.

Also, just because somebody's views are different from your own doesn't necessarily mean they are "undeveloped" views.

It is not, however, and never has been my duty to convince you of my beliefs.

Of course it's not. But why bother posting in a topic where people ASK YOU TO CONVINCE THEM, if you're not willing to do that? If you aren't willing to participate in a conversation, then it's polite to simply not join in. It's rude to enter the conversation and then ignore the subject or try to change the subject that everyone else is talking about.

Besides, let's be honest, you don't really care anyways.

Wrong again. Maybe if you stopped trying to tell other people what they believe/feel/think, you'd have more time to consider your own beliefs and come up with more productive supports for your assertions.

[Ashmoria]

Which God should you worship? There really is no choice. There is only one God. One day, regardless of your philosophical beliefs, this is the God you will worship. You will do it in fear or in love, but it will be done. The mightiest man on earth will bow his knee and worship this God Most High.

But don't take my word for it - ask Him.

can i worship this god through islam?

[The Alma Mater]

Which God should you worship? There really is no choice. There is only one God. One day, regardless of your philosophical beliefs, this is the God you will worship. You will do it in fear or in love, but it will be done. The mightiest man on earth will bow his knee and worship this God Most High.

But don't take my word for it - ask Him.

I did. Atum-Ra, creator of all life, and vastly older than the demiurge Jahweh, fully agreed with you.
Then he asked me to masturbate with Him.

[Bottle]

Which God should you worship? There really is no choice. There is only one God. One day, regardless of your philosophical beliefs, this is the God you will worship. You will do it in fear or in love, but it will be done. The mightiest man on earth will bow his knee and worship this God Most High.

But don't take my word for it - ask Him.

can i worship this god through islam?

How about Athena? Or Satan? Or Voldemort?

[Ashmoria]

Which God should you worship? There really is no choice. There is only one God. One day, regardless of your philosophical beliefs, this is the God you will worship. You will do it in fear or in love, but it will be done. The mightiest man on earth will bow his knee and worship this God Most High.

But don't take my word for it - ask Him.

can i worship this god through islam?

How about Athena? Or Satan? Or Voldemort?

aye

but i was starting with an easy question.

[Cross-Rhodes]

Which God should you worship? There really is no choice. There is only one God. One day, regardless of your philosophical beliefs, this is the God you will worship. You will do it in fear or in love, but it will be done. The mightiest man on earth will bow his knee and worship this God Most High.

But don't take my word for it - ask Him.

can i worship this god through islam?

How about Athena? Or Satan? Or Voldemort?

aye

but i was starting with an easy question.

Don't confuse religion with God. If the god that Islam worships is the same God in truth and character as the Everlasting One of which I speak, then sure. You can worship Him nude, dancing, or wrapped in a turban. God cannot be contained in a box called religion. Man is too small to understand an infinite God...so we created religion.

Just because a thing/individual is credited with deity, however, does not mean that it is actually there.

[The Alma Mater]

Don't confuse religion with God. If the god that Islam worships is the same God in truth and character as the Everlasting One of which I speak, then sure. You can worship Him nude, dancing, or wrapped in a turban. God cannot be contained in a box called religion. Man is too small to understand an infinite God...so we created religion.

Just because a thing/individual is credited with deity, however, does not mean that it is actually there.

If not for religious reasons - why do you assume there is only ONE God ?

[Ashmoria]

Which God should you worship? There really is no choice. There is only one God. One day, regardless of your philosophical beliefs, this is the God you will worship. You will do it in fear or in love, but it will be done. The mightiest man on earth will bow his knee and worship this God Most High.

But don't take my word for it - ask Him.

can i worship this god through islam?

How about Athena? Or Satan? Or Voldemort?

aye

but i was starting with an easy question.

Don't confuse religion with God. If the god that Islam worships is the same God in truth and character as the Everlasting One of which I speak, then sure. You can worship Him nude, dancing, or wrapped in a turban. God cannot be contained in a box called religion. Man is too small to understand an infinite God...so we created religion.

Just because a thing/individual is credited with deity, however, does not mean that it is actually there.

does that mean that your answer is "yes"?

[Cross-Rhodes]

Which God should you worship? There really is no choice. There is only one God. One day, regardless of your philosophical beliefs, this is the God you will worship. You will do it in fear or in love, but it will be done. The mightiest man on earth will bow his knee and worship this God Most High.

But don't take my word for it - ask Him.

can i worship this god through islam?

How about Athena? Or Satan? Or Voldemort?

aye

but i was starting with an easy question.

Don't confuse religion with God. If the god that Islam worships is the same God in truth and character as the Everlasting One of which I speak, then sure. You can worship Him nude, dancing, or wrapped in a turban. God cannot be contained in a box called religion. Man is too small to understand an infinite God...so we created religion.

Just because a thing/individual is credited with deity, however, does not mean that it is actually there.

does that mean that your answer is "yes"?

Two clarifying statements, given weight for the necessary reading and comprehensions skills involved:

1. If the god that Islam worships is the same God in truth and character as the Everlasting One of which I speak, then sure.
2. Just because a thing/individual is credited with deity, however, does not mean that it is actually there.

Knowing of the deeds of many Islamic factions, and the denial of Jesus Christ as anything more than a prophet. Then I would have to say "no". In my post consisting of several paragraphs, you'll note that I said this God is Jesus Christ. Ergo, if a group or religion denies this - they cannot, indeed, worship the same god.

That being said, a person can be whatever religion, creed, or race and worship this God - we are not to put Him in a box. Understand now?

[Lelouche]

Besides, many of us are now "teenagers". Rebelling and such. If God is anything like human parents he is probably far prouder of the rebel nonbelievers than of the docile followers that merely do as he says.

Also a good point.

I think we've all probably encountered one of those parents who keeps acting like their child is a toddler, even after that child is in their teens or twenties. Parents who keep trying to use authoritarian parenting even after the kid has moved out. Parents who refuse to interact with their child as if he/she were a full person, but instead act like the child owes them the sort of obedience that we normally reserve for pets.

Where I come from, we call those "shitty parents."

We call those "Involved parents"

we might not always appreciate the heavy hand, but it's still infinitely better than not having parents at all, or parents who can't be bothered to talk to you, or parents who spit on the ground you walk on.

I would trade my Crack-Head mother, for the parent you described.

[Tmutarakhan]

As a math professor, naturally I worship Math

[Bottle]

Besides, many of us are now "teenagers". Rebelling and such. If God is anything like human parents he is probably far prouder of the rebel nonbelievers than of the docile followers that merely do as he says.

Also a good point.

I think we've all probably encountered one of those parents who keeps acting like their child is a toddler, even after that child is in their teens or twenties. Parents who keep trying to use authoritarian parenting even after the kid has moved out. Parents who refuse to interact with their child as if he/she were a full person, but instead act like the child owes them the sort of obedience that we normally reserve for pets.

Where I come from, we call those "shitty parents."

We call those "Involved parents"

we might not always appreciate the heavy hand, but it's still infinitely better than not having parents at all, or parents who can't be bothered to talk to you, or parents who spit on the ground you walk on.

That is literally like arguing that it's healthy for parents to force their children to eat until they get sick, because it's unhealthy for parents to never let their children eat.

The fact that one extreme is shitty does not remotely prove that the other extreme is good. When it comes to parenting, going to extremes is usually the fastest way to fuck your child up for life.

[Bottle]

Which God should you worship? There really is no choice. There is only one God. One day, regardless of your philosophical beliefs, this is the God you will worship. You will do it in fear or in love, but it will be done. The mightiest man on earth will bow his knee and worship this God Most High.

But don't take my word for it - ask Him.

can i worship this god through islam?

How about Athena? Or Satan? Or Voldemort?

aye

but i was starting with an easy question.

Don't confuse religion with God. If the god that Islam worships is the same God in truth and character as the Everlasting One of which I speak, then sure. You can worship Him nude, dancing, or wrapped in a turban. God cannot be contained in a box called religion. Man is too small to understand an infinite God...so we created religion.

Just because a thing/individual is credited with deity, however, does not mean that it is actually there.

does that mean that your answer is "yes"?

Of course not. It means that as long as people worship a God which fits into the (narrow) God-image he has been taught, then they can name that God whatever they like and he'll be content.

But if their God-image is not the same as his, well, clearly they're just wrong. He doesn't have any evidence or anything, and he can't provide you with any reason whatsoever that you should embrace his version of God (under any name), but he's comfortable telling hundreds of millions of people that he knows God better than they do simply because their vision of God isn't consistent enough with his own.

And remember: ATHEISTS are the arrogant ones.

[Cross-Rhodes]

Which God should you worship? There really is no choice. There is only one God. One day, regardless of your philosophical beliefs, this is the God you will worship. You will do it in fear or in love, but it will be done. The mightiest man on earth will bow his knee and worship this God Most High.

But don't take my word for it - ask Him.

can i worship this god through islam?

How about Athena? Or Satan? Or Voldemort?

aye

but i was starting with an easy question.

Don't confuse religion with God. If the god that Islam worships is the same God in truth and character as the Everlasting One of which I speak, then sure. You can worship Him nude, dancing, or wrapped in a turban. God cannot be contained in a box called religion. Man is too small to understand an infinite God...so we created religion.

Just because a thing/individual is credited with deity, however, does not mean that it is actually there.

does that mean that your answer is "yes"?

Of course not. It means that as long as people worship a God which fits into the (narrow) God-image he has been taught, then they can name that God whatever they like and he'll be content.

But if their God-image is not the same as his, well, clearly they're just wrong. He doesn't have any evidence or anything, and he can't provide you with any reason whatsoever that you should embrace his version of God (under any name), but he's comfortable telling hundreds of millions of people that he knows God better than they do simply because their vision of God isn't consistent enough with his own.

And remember: ATHEISTS are the arrogant ones.

I'm sure you know me well enough to know my thoughts. I never have called anyone arrogant...so please try to keep the conversation in context. In truth I find Christians to be some of the most arrogant people I have met. Then again, they only claim to be Christians - claiming something doesn't make it so.

It is not my view of God that is important, for I am sure that I am mistaken more than I am not. If God were limited by only my scope of what I think He is, then He would be a small God indeed and One that I could completely comprehend. I apologize if I seemed to put God in a box, since that is what I abhor most.

As far as evidence, there is a reason they call it faith. To quote from the basis of faith (the Bible): "Now faith is the assurance of things hoped for, the conviction of things not seen." My faith is my evidence.

This may or may not be enough for you: that, I cannot affect.

[The Alma Mater]

This may or may not be enough for you: that, I cannot affect.

One assumes that the people worshipping other gods than yours can have at least as much faith as you. Possibly even far more.
So I fear it won't cut it