"Under God" in the Pledge of Allegiance

[Warda]

It dosn't. The minority is just vocal about it.

I don't think just a minority wants it removed.

*cough*

[Dyakovo]

It seems trivial to me, but if it upsets the majority of the population....

Constitutional violations are trivial?

[Genivaria]

"I pledge allegiance to the Flag of the United States of America, and to the republic for which it stands, one nation, under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all."

These words were added to the Pledge in 1954 due to Cold War-era political pressure to differentiate America from the "godless commies" of the Soviet Union. However, this addition is growing more and more controversial due to its conflict with the principle of separation of church and state as outlined in the Constitution. Supporters of the phrase's inclusion claim that because most Americans are Christian, the phrase is a simple reflection of the will of the people. However, opponents of the phrase's presence in the Pledge argue that it is violates the constitutional principles of church-state separation and freedom of religion, as well as that the US is not a Christian nation.

My opinion:
The addition of "Under God" to the Pledge was unacceptable even considering the circumstances of the Cold War, and now that the Cold War has long been over, it is especially egregious. America is not meant to be a Christian nation, and this is especially true nowadays considering that more and more Americans are not following the Christian religion. Based on Pew Research data from 2012, 27 percent of Americans are not followers of Christianity. When the many non-Christians of America have to recite the Pledge, they are being forced to acknowledge a religious deity that they do not believe to exist. Also, the phrase's presence in the Pledge contradicts freedom of religion and separation of church and state as outlined in the Constitution.

So, what is your opinion? Should the phrase "under God" in the Pledge of Allegiance stay, or should it go?

mod permission to repost this thread granted here

You don't "have" to recite the pledge by the way.

Irrelevant. Having it in the pledge means that the government is endorsing it, which the 1st amendment forbids.

[Pandeeria]

"I pledge allegiance to the Flag of the United States of America, and to the republic for which it stands, one nation, under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all."

These words were added to the Pledge in 1954 due to Cold War-era political pressure to differentiate America from the "godless commies" of the Soviet Union. However, this addition is growing more and more controversial due to its conflict with the principle of separation of church and state as outlined in the Constitution. Supporters of the phrase's inclusion claim that because most Americans are Christian, the phrase is a simple reflection of the will of the people. However, opponents of the phrase's presence in the Pledge argue that it is violates the constitutional principles of church-state separation and freedom of religion, as well as that the US is not a Christian nation.

My opinion:
The addition of "Under God" to the Pledge was unacceptable even considering the circumstances of the Cold War, and now that the Cold War has long been over, it is especially egregious. America is not meant to be a Christian nation, and this is especially true nowadays considering that more and more Americans are not following the Christian religion. Based on Pew Research data from 2012, 27 percent of Americans are not followers of Christianity. When the many non-Christians of America have to recite the Pledge, they are being forced to acknowledge a religious deity that they do not believe to exist. Also, the phrase's presence in the Pledge contradicts freedom of religion and separation of church and state as outlined in the Constitution.

So, what is your opinion? Should the phrase "under God" in the Pledge of Allegiance stay, or should it go?

mod permission to repost this thread granted here

You don't "have" to recite the pledge by the way.

You don't have to, but the US is a secular nation. It should have a secular pledge and motto.

[Menassa]

It seems trivial to me, but if it upsets the majority of the population....

Constitutional violations are trivial?

To me.

[NERVUN]

*googles*.........
.. Goddamnit Bush....and Obama!? GODDAMNIT!!! *facedesk*
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_Hous ... rtnerships

I had never heard of this before...

One more reason why Separation of Church and State hardly exists here.

Meh, honestly not seeing the problem with it, as long as monies don't go to actual faith events/evangelizing.

[Geilinor]

"I pledge allegiance to the Flag of the United States of America, and to the republic for which it stands, one nation, under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all."

These words were added to the Pledge in 1954 due to Cold War-era political pressure to differentiate America from the "godless commies" of the Soviet Union. However, this addition is growing more and more controversial due to its conflict with the principle of separation of church and state as outlined in the Constitution. Supporters of the phrase's inclusion claim that because most Americans are Christian, the phrase is a simple reflection of the will of the people. However, opponents of the phrase's presence in the Pledge argue that it is violates the constitutional principles of church-state separation and freedom of religion, as well as that the US is not a Christian nation.

My opinion:
The addition of "Under God" to the Pledge was unacceptable even considering the circumstances of the Cold War, and now that the Cold War has long been over, it is especially egregious. America is not meant to be a Christian nation, and this is especially true nowadays considering that more and more Americans are not following the Christian religion. Based on Pew Research data from 2012, 27 percent of Americans are not followers of Christianity. When the many non-Christians of America have to recite the Pledge, they are being forced to acknowledge a religious deity that they do not believe to exist. Also, the phrase's presence in the Pledge contradicts freedom of religion and separation of church and state as outlined in the Constitution.

So, what is your opinion? Should the phrase "under God" in the Pledge of Allegiance stay, or should it go?

mod permission to repost this thread granted here

You don't "have" to recite the pledge by the way.

It's still government sponsorship of belief in a God. America isn't an inherently Christian country, it is a secular one and doesn't live under the rules of God.

[The Union of the West]

"I pledge allegiance to the Flag of the United States of America, and to the republic for which it stands, one nation, under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all."

These words were added to the Pledge in 1954 due to Cold War-era political pressure to differentiate America from the "godless commies" of the Soviet Union. However, this addition is growing more and more controversial due to its conflict with the principle of separation of church and state as outlined in the Constitution. Supporters of the phrase's inclusion claim that because most Americans are Christian, the phrase is a simple reflection of the will of the people. However, opponents of the phrase's presence in the Pledge argue that it is violates the constitutional principles of church-state separation and freedom of religion, as well as that the US is not a Christian nation.

My opinion:
The addition of "Under God" to the Pledge was unacceptable even considering the circumstances of the Cold War, and now that the Cold War has long been over, it is especially egregious. America is not meant to be a Christian nation, and this is especially true nowadays considering that more and more Americans are not following the Christian religion. Based on Pew Research data from 2012, 27 percent of Americans are not followers of Christianity. When the many non-Christians of America have to recite the Pledge, they are being forced to acknowledge a religious deity that they do not believe to exist. Also, the phrase's presence in the Pledge contradicts freedom of religion and separation of church and state as outlined in the Constitution.

So, what is your opinion? Should the phrase "under God" in the Pledge of Allegiance stay, or should it go?

mod permission to repost this thread granted here

How about we just don't say the Pledge. It means nothing to a lot of young people, and some people don't even know what they're saying. However, if we do continue to say it, a person should have the choice to say "Under God" or not to say "Under God".

[Menassa]

It seems trivial to me, but if it upsets the majority of the population....

Why does it have to upset a majority? It has the potential to upset 20-27% of the population, isn't that bad enough?

Doesn't seem fair, I mean in a society where the majority makes a decision... but that's nitty-gritty business.

[Wisconsin9]

I don't think just a minority wants it removed.

*cough*

I'd like a link to that study, please.

[The Scientific States]

I don't think just a minority wants it removed.

*cough*

Well, that's a lot more people than I expected who would mind if it was removed.

Regardless it's unconstitutional.

[Mike the Progressive]

Heh. I recall in HS writing a letter to President Bush referring to it as a "de facto Department of Faith" (it was a school assignment) and receiving a letter saying thanks for the support and explained to me what it did. ^.^

Not sure I understand. Were you supporting it?

No I criticized it. Which is the comical thing. I'm not even sure they really read my letter. lol

[Vazdania]

You don't "have" to recite the pledge by the way.

That doesn't make it any less of a violation of the Constitution.

And, for that matter, a lot of kids don't know that. My district says that the pledge is voluntary, but that's the exception rather than the rule. And even if it was the rule, there are places you can get bullied for not saying it—for instance, religious and conservative areas like the one I grew up in.

On March 11, 2010, the United States Court of Appeals for the Ninth Circuit upheld the words "under God" in the Pledge of Allegiance in the case of Newdow v. Rio Linda Union School District. In a 2–1 decision, the appellate court ruled that the words were of a "ceremonial and patriotic nature" and did not constitute an establishment of religion.

And yes, I was both verbally and physically attacked for not reciting the pledge.

[Genivaria]

"I pledge allegiance to the Flag of the United States of America, and to the republic for which it stands, one nation, under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all."

These words were added to the Pledge in 1954 due to Cold War-era political pressure to differentiate America from the "godless commies" of the Soviet Union. However, this addition is growing more and more controversial due to its conflict with the principle of separation of church and state as outlined in the Constitution. Supporters of the phrase's inclusion claim that because most Americans are Christian, the phrase is a simple reflection of the will of the people. However, opponents of the phrase's presence in the Pledge argue that it is violates the constitutional principles of church-state separation and freedom of religion, as well as that the US is not a Christian nation.

My opinion:
The addition of "Under God" to the Pledge was unacceptable even considering the circumstances of the Cold War, and now that the Cold War has long been over, it is especially egregious. America is not meant to be a Christian nation, and this is especially true nowadays considering that more and more Americans are not following the Christian religion. Based on Pew Research data from 2012, 27 percent of Americans are not followers of Christianity. When the many non-Christians of America have to recite the Pledge, they are being forced to acknowledge a religious deity that they do not believe to exist. Also, the phrase's presence in the Pledge contradicts freedom of religion and separation of church and state as outlined in the Constitution.

So, what is your opinion? Should the phrase "under God" in the Pledge of Allegiance stay, or should it go?

mod permission to repost this thread granted here

How about we just don't say the Pledge. It means nothing to a lot of young people, and some people don't even know what they're saying. However, if we do continue to say it, a person should have the choice to say "Under God" or not to say "Under God".

Sure lets get rid of the pledge in general I agree with that.
Pledges of Allegiance should not be made so trivial as to have minors compelled to make it.

[Wisconsin9]

Not sure I understand. Were you supporting it?

No I criticized it. Which is the comical thing. I'm not even sure they really read my letter. lol

Of course they didn't. They probably only had a secretary scan the first few lines to figure out what you were talking about, then sent a form reply.

[Mike the Progressive]

I don't think just a minority wants it removed.

*cough*

Look polls are irrelevant when it's topics like this, but war, healthcare, gun control, abortion. We should follow the polls! And now gay rights, but only after that 52% threshold was made.

[Genivaria]

Not sure I understand. Were you supporting it?

No I criticized it. Which is the comical thing. I'm not even sure they really read my letter. lol

Sounds about right.

[Warda]

*cough*

I'd like a link to that study, please.

http://www.gallup.com/poll/11551/americans-indivisible-pledge-allegiance.aspx
*Results are based on telephone interviews with 1,001 national adults, aged 18 and older, conducted March 26-28, 2004. For results based on the total sample of national adults, one can say with 95% confidence that the margin of sampling error is ±3 percentage points.

[Vazdania]

You don't "have" to recite the pledge by the way.

It's still government sponsorship of belief in a God. America isn't an inherently Christian country, it is a secular one and doesn't live under the rules of God.

Not according to the 9th Circuit court of appeals.

[The Serbian Empire]

Yes, it should be removed.

[Geilinor]

"I pledge allegiance to the Flag of the United States of America, and to the republic for which it stands, one nation, under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all."

These words were added to the Pledge in 1954 due to Cold War-era political pressure to differentiate America from the "godless commies" of the Soviet Union. However, this addition is growing more and more controversial due to its conflict with the principle of separation of church and state as outlined in the Constitution. Supporters of the phrase's inclusion claim that because most Americans are Christian, the phrase is a simple reflection of the will of the people. However, opponents of the phrase's presence in the Pledge argue that it is violates the constitutional principles of church-state separation and freedom of religion, as well as that the US is not a Christian nation.

My opinion:
The addition of "Under God" to the Pledge was unacceptable even considering the circumstances of the Cold War, and now that the Cold War has long been over, it is especially egregious. America is not meant to be a Christian nation, and this is especially true nowadays considering that more and more Americans are not following the Christian religion. Based on Pew Research data from 2012, 27 percent of Americans are not followers of Christianity. When the many non-Christians of America have to recite the Pledge, they are being forced to acknowledge a religious deity that they do not believe to exist. Also, the phrase's presence in the Pledge contradicts freedom of religion and separation of church and state as outlined in the Constitution.

So, what is your opinion? Should the phrase "under God" in the Pledge of Allegiance stay, or should it go?

mod permission to repost this thread granted here

However, if we do continue to say it, a person should have the choice to say "Under God" or not to say "Under God".

People can say it if they want, but it doesn't have to be in the official text.

[Vazdania]

Yes, it should be removed.

Not really.

[Geilinor]

It's still government sponsorship of belief in a God. America isn't an inherently Christian country, it is a secular one and doesn't live under the rules of God.

Not according to the 9th Circuit court of appeals.

Even if it isn't ruled unconstitutional, I still think it should be removed out of respect to atheists, secularists, and polytheists.

[Regnum Dominae]

I'd like a link to that study, please.

http://www.gallup.com/poll/11551/americans-indivisible-pledge-allegiance.aspx
*Results are based on telephone interviews with 1,001 national adults, aged 18 and older, conducted March 26-28, 2004. For results based on the total sample of national adults, one can say with 95% confidence that the margin of sampling error is ±3 percentage points.

That poll is almost ten years old.

[Genivaria]

Yes, it should be removed.

Not really.

Yes really. It's unconstitutional and should be removed.