Is It Correct To Be Politically Correct?

[Zottistan]

If you think before you speak, but none the less say what is on your mind regardless, then you may as well not have thought at all. And if you cannot think of a situation in which it would be to your benefit to not offend someone, then I don't believe that thinking is your strong suit.

---

Yes, this kind of opposition to personal responsibility is pretty typical of member of Ayn Rand's Sex Cult.

1 thinking =/= coming to the same conclusion as someone else. If I dont care how people view me then naturally I will come to a much different conclusion of what is proper and improper to say in my opinion. For instance I dont swear or at least only do so while in physical pain. I do this because I find swearing to be crass and useless. I am not impolite I am just A-polite (not an actual word but it means I dont care either way)
2 what sex cult? and how do I join?
In all seriousness if you read Ayn Rand you will see that she advocates responsible self interest, responsibility =/= being a submissive sheep to afraid to speak its mind

Rand advocated action. The movement towards results. If you insult everybody, they'll ignore you and you won't get anywhere. If you put your views politely, they'll be much more likely to listen and you'll be much more likely to make an objective difference.

[Kaesar the invincible]

1 thinking =/= coming to the same conclusion as someone else. If I dont care how people view me then naturally I will come to a much different conclusion of what is proper and improper to say in my opinion. For instance I dont swear or at least only do so while in physical pain. I do this because I find swearing to be crass and useless. I am not impolite I am just A-polite (not an actual word but it means I dont care either way)
2 what sex cult? and how do I join?
In all seriousness if you read Ayn Rand you will see that she advocates responsible self interest, responsibility =/= being a submissive sheep to afraid to speak its mind

Rand advocated action. The movement towards results. If you insult everybody, they'll ignore you and you won't get anywhere. If you put your views politely, they'll be much more likely to listen and you'll be much more likely to make an objective difference.

I dont go out of my way to insult people though. I just say what I think, I have actually been called polite on many occasions IRL dsespite not actually trying at all to be polite. Most people tend to either love or hate me.
EDIT: Also you can be polite and honest, what I meant was if I had to choose between being polite OR being honest I would choose honest every time. I say what is on my mind, but HOW I say it is up to me and I generally tend to do so without insulting people too much

[Zottistan]

Rand advocated action. The movement towards results. If you insult everybody, they'll ignore you and you won't get anywhere. If you put your views politely, they'll be much more likely to listen and you'll be much more likely to make an objective difference.

I dont go out of my way to insult people though. I just say what I think, I have actually been called polite on many occasions IRL dsespite not actually trying at all to be polite. Most people tend to either love or hate me.

I don't think you understand what political correctness is, so. It's not culling your opinions because other people disagree with them. It's putting them politely so as to offend as few people as possible.

[Kaesar the invincible]

I dont go out of my way to insult people though. I just say what I think, I have actually been called polite on many occasions IRL dsespite not actually trying at all to be polite. Most people tend to either love or hate me.

I don't think you understand what political correctness is, so. It's not culling your opinions because other people disagree with them. It's putting them politely so as to offend as few people as possible.

That is Ok then, I thought that political correctness was lying about your views to appease people

[Ifreann]

Which, I believe, no one has ever done.

I never said in there anyone has. I answering your question and giving my opinion.
And it has been been done.
You, of course, wouldn't believe me. So here are your sources:
http://www.truthdig.com/eartotheground/ ... ns_n_word/
http://www.newyorkoggi.com/Ban_the_N_Word.php
http://www.nationalpost.com/story.html? ... c2c35bb40c
http://www.scotsman.com/news/world/new- ... d-1-684107
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2007/m ... pilkington
http://www.shortnews.com/start.cfm?id=60611
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/6406625.stm
http://metro.co.uk/2007/03/01/new-york- ... rd-133815/

An unenforceable, symbolic ban. Nothing more substantive?

I have heard it is illegal to say it in certain places in the UK, though I don't know whether this is true or not.

It's not. The Public Order Act prohibits various sorts of verbal abuse in public.

Nonsense. Everyone who has to deal with the public as part of their job should make an effort to not offend the public they're dealing with. Otherwise they're not doing their job properly, are they?

Those words would be within his normal vocabulary, since he deals with the public.

And if the public doesn't like the words in one's normal vocabulary then one should use other words or find a new line of work that doesn't involve speaking to the public.

And I meant more about him getting in official trouble for saying "gay" or "Oriental."

It doesn't matter what the words are, if one is meant to be dealing with the public and one is pissing people off because of the words one uses, then one should find new words to use.

If it serves an advantageous point other than to not get into official trouble, then use it.

Sometimes getting in trouble is advantageous, obviously.

PC POLICE!

I wouldn't call not using obscenities being politically correct exclusively. It's more about not being vulgar.

You've decided that certain words are bad and shouldn't be used because they offend your sensibilities.But when other people do the exact same thing with different words, that's terrible somehow. It's like people don't have the same opinion as you or something.

Unless they're stupid, they'll use the terms that generate the least controversy, so when their speech makes the news it'll be for what it was about, not how they offended some section of the populace.

That word would then serve an advantageous point. And you might say it's to the same effect, but they're both being done for different causes. One is out of fear that he would get in trouble officially for using it. The other would be so that he may cause no problems with the public. The difference is probably insignificant to you since, you know, if fear mongering accomplished the same thing then why would it matter which one is used, right?

So if I follow, it's okay to choose to avoid some certain word to avoid the controversy the use of that word would cause, but it's bad to choose to avoid some certain word to avoid the controversy the use of that word would cause.

Obscenities are specific words...

"Obscenities" refers to a group of specific words. The group itself is general.

And "politically incorrect" refers to a group of specific terms and phrases, the group itself is general.

[Ifreann]

If you think before you speak, but none the less say what is on your mind regardless, then you may as well not have thought at all. And if you cannot think of a situation in which it would be to your benefit to not offend someone, then I don't believe that thinking is your strong suit.

---

Yes, this kind of opposition to personal responsibility is pretty typical of member of Ayn Rand's Sex Cult.

1 thinking =/= coming to the same conclusion as someone else. If I dont care how people view me then naturally I will come to a much different conclusion of what is proper and improper to say in my opinion. For instance I dont swear or at least only do so while in physical pain. I do this because I find swearing to be crass and useless. I am not impolite I am just A-polite (not an actual word but it means I dont care either way)

Only a teenager could think that they could function in the real world without caring what people think of them. It matters what people think of you. What people think of you determines whether they'll give you a job, whether they'll do business with you, whether they'll rent you an apartment, whether they'll let you ride their bus, whether they'll let you into their store, et cetera, et cetera, ad infinitum.

2 what sex cult? and how do I join?

Familiarise yourself with the writings of eminent 20th Century Russian-American philosopher and sex kitten Ayn Rand. If you're worthy, you'll figure it out.

In all seriousness if you read Ayn Rand you will see that she advocates responsible self interest, responsibility =/= being a submissive sheep to afraid to speak its mind

Nor is responsibility spraying your verbal diarrhoea all over someone without considering how badly it could go for you if they were to take offence.

EDIT: that being said if you want to be politically correct you are welcome to do so, just dont get all annoyed when someone gives you their unfiltered undefiled opinions

You'll find that I'm every bit as free to get annoyed as I am to be politically correct. You're not the boss of me.

---

I don't think you understand what political correctness is, so. It's not culling your opinions because other people disagree with them. It's putting them politely so as to offend as few people as possible.

That is Ok then, I thought that political correctness was lying about your views to appease people

And if you had thought before you had expressed your opinions about political correctness, maybe you would have realised that you don't know very much about it, and that you should research it a bit first. But you didn't think, or you may as well not have, and now you look very silly, and the record of that will exist more or less forever.

[Ohrigstad]

These days one must be careful of what comes out of their mouths, and make an effort to be politically correct. Is it bad not to be politically correct, and vice versa? (when I say politically correct, I mean, for example, the public backlash a politician would recieved if he or she "offended someone through dialogue"). What is your opinion of political correctness? (regarding a statement by a none-bigoted individual)

I think speech codes and thought terminating cliches can be dangerous.

[Kaesar the invincible]

1 thinking =/= coming to the same conclusion as someone else. If I dont care how people view me then naturally I will come to a much different conclusion of what is proper and improper to say in my opinion. For instance I dont swear or at least only do so while in physical pain. I do this because I find swearing to be crass and useless. I am not impolite I am just A-polite (not an actual word but it means I dont care either way)

Only a teenager could think that they could function in the real world without caring what people think of them. It matters what people think of you. What people think of you determines whether they'll give you a job, whether they'll do business with you, whether they'll let you ride their bus, whether they'll let you into your store, et cetera, et cetera, ad infinitum.

2 what sex cult? and how do I join?

Familiarise yourself with the writings of eminent 20th Century Russian-American philosopher and sex kitten Ayn Rand. If you're worthy, you'll figure it out.

In all seriousness if you read Ayn Rand you will see that she advocates responsible self interest, responsibility =/= being a submissive sheep to afraid to speak its mind

Nor is responsibility spraying your verbal diarrhoea all over someone without considering how badly it could go for you if they were to take offence.

EDIT: that being said if you want to be politically correct you are welcome to do so, just dont get all annoyed when someone gives you their unfiltered undefiled opinions

You'll find that I'm every bit as free to get annoyed as I am to be politically correct. You're not the boss of me.

---

That is Ok then, I thought that political correctness was lying about your views to appease people

And if you had thought before you had expressed your opinions about political correctness, maybe you would have realised that you don't know very much about it, and that you should research it a bit first. But you didn't think, or you may as well not have, and now you look very silly, and the record of that will exist more or less forever.

1 Yes but as I have said before most people either love me or hate me, but there are as a whole more people who love me than those who hate me. So obviously Im doing SOMETHING right! At least in your opinion for me it doesnt matter as long as Im happy.
2 I am aware of Ayn Rands affair with one of her circle members. I dont see how that is a problem or why that somehow makes objectivism a sex cult. And if it was it wouldnt matter because sex is a private thing and what I do privately is my business.
3 in what way have I said anything really offensive? in fact you have probbably been more offensive with that "verbal diarhea" comment than I have been, except I dont really care what you think of me so I wasnt actually offended.
4 sure sure get annoyed but remember the less things in life that offend you the happier you will be
5 I admit I made a mistake and corrected myself. Everyone makes mistakes, The fact that I was willing to modify my views based on new information is called being rational. I understand I was wrong and moving forward I now know more than I did before. I learned something from this whole debate which far far outweighs any ridicule I may recieve for being wrong about something.

[Ifreann]

Only a teenager could think that they could function in the real world without caring what people think of them. It matters what people think of you. What people think of you determines whether they'll give you a job, whether they'll do business with you, whether they'll let you ride their bus, whether they'll let you into your store, et cetera, et cetera, ad infinitum.

Familiarise yourself with the writings of eminent 20th Century Russian-American philosopher and sex kitten Ayn Rand. If you're worthy, you'll figure it out.

Nor is responsibility spraying your verbal diarrhoea all over someone without considering how badly it could go for you if they were to take offence.


You'll find that I'm every bit as free to get annoyed as I am to be politically correct. You're not the boss of me.

---

And if you had thought before you had expressed your opinions about political correctness, maybe you would have realised that you don't know very much about it, and that you should research it a bit first. But you didn't think, or you may as well not have, and now you look very silly, and the record of that will exist more or less forever.

1 Yes but as I have said before most people either love me or hate me, but there are as a whole more people who love me than those who hate me. So obviously Im doing SOMETHING right!...

Among the handful of people you know now. That could very easily change.

...3 in what way have I said anything really offensive? in fact you have probbably been more offensive with that "verbal diarhea" comment than I have been, except I dont really care what you think of me so I wasnt actually offended....

See? You've posted without thinking again. I wasn't saying that you've offended me, nor anyone else here. I was saying that offending someone might not be in your "rational self interest". So if you say you don't care about what others think of you, you do not, in fact, pursue your "rational self interest".

...5 I admit I made a mistake and corrected myself. Everyone makes mistakes, The fact that I was willing to modify my views based on new information is called being rational. I understand I was wrong and moving forward I now know more than I did before. I learned something from this whole debate which far far outweighs any ridicule I may recieve for being wrong about something.

I'm not ridiculing you. I'm offering more information for you to rationally consider. And ridiculing you a little, because it's fun.

[Dread Lady Nathicana]

I'm just puzzled why some people think it makes a difference if I say "homosexual" when I mean "gay". It's all the same thing. Call them what you want. Abominations, freaks of nature, poofs, gay, homosexual, rainbow ponies, humpers, sodomites, they boil down to the same basic concept. It's just for some reason, if I decide to gall a gay person "freak of nature", everybody goes crazy, but "homosexual" and suddenly everyone's on my side.

Even more irritating are the race and gender PCs. We all know what you mean when you say mailman. No need for mailperson. Now, the reason why calling someone nigger is banned is understandable. But why African American Person? Why not just black man?

Perhaps your puzzlement at why people do not like being called offensive things is why you keep getting yourself into trouble. You are, as always, free to believe whatever you like - everyone here is. However on these forums, HOW you express those beliefs is what you will be called on, and held accountable for. It's the idea of having a place that, while not perfect, and not free of all offense, one can have a reasonable expectation of not being subjected to namecalling, trolling, flaming, etc.

Choose how you express your beliefs in a less inflammatory manner, or we're forced to barge in and start swinging warnings, bans, and deletions around. Which isn't really our end goal here.

Just a friendly reminder to you, Helltank, and anyone else who feels they may be struggling with this concept - don't act like a jerk, especially to your fellow posters. If you feel your next post may be somewhat jerkish in tone, think for a moment, and edit prior to posting. If you're posting with the deliberate intent of irritating another poster, stop, and go do something else until you can manage to avoid that little temptation. If you aren't sure - err on the side of caution. Most people using this site manage to pull this off on a regular basis, day in, and day out. It can be managed.

[Dyakovo]

I'm just puzzled why some people think it makes a difference if I say "homosexual" when I mean "gay". It's all the same thing. Call them what you want. Abominations, freaks of nature, poofs, gay, homosexual, rainbow ponies, humpers, sodomites, they boil down to the same basic concept. It's just for some reason, if I decide to gall a gay person "freak of nature", everybody goes crazy, but "homosexual" and suddenly everyone's on my side.

Even more irritating are the race and gender PCs. We all know what you mean when you say mailman. No need for mailperson. Now, the reason why calling someone nigger is banned is understandable. But why African American Person? Why not just black man?

Perhaps your puzzlement at why people do not like being called offensive things is why you keep getting yourself into trouble. You are, as always, free to believe whatever you like - everyone here is. However on these forums, HOW you express those beliefs is what you will be called on, and held accountable for. It's the idea of having a place that, while not perfect, and not free of all offense, one can have a reasonable expectation of not being subjected to namecalling, trolling, flaming, etc.

Choose how you express your beliefs in a less inflammatory manner, or we're forced to barge in and start swinging warnings, bans, and deletions around. Which isn't really our end goal here.

Just a friendly reminder to you, Helltank, and anyone else who feels they may be struggling with this concept - don't act like a jerk, especially to your fellow posters. If you feel your next post may be somewhat jerkish in tone, think for a moment, and edit prior to posting. If you're posting with the deliberate intent of irritating another poster, stop, and go do something else until you can manage to avoid that little temptation. If you aren't sure - err on the side of caution. Most people using this site manage to pull this off on a regular basis, day in, and day out. It can be managed.

Oh no! The PC Police have struck!!!!

[Kaesar the invincible]

1 Yes but as I have said before most people either love me or hate me, but there are as a whole more people who love me than those who hate me. So obviously Im doing SOMETHING right!...

Among the handful of people you know now. That could very easily change.

...3 in what way have I said anything really offensive? in fact you have probbably been more offensive with that "verbal diarhea" comment than I have been, except I dont really care what you think of me so I wasnt actually offended....

See? You've posted without thinking again. I wasn't saying that you've offended me, nor anyone else here. I was saying that offending someone might not be in your "rational self interest". So if you say you don't care about what others think of you, you do not, in fact, pursue your "rational self interest".

...5 I admit I made a mistake and corrected myself. Everyone makes mistakes, The fact that I was willing to modify my views based on new information is called being rational. I understand I was wrong and moving forward I now know more than I did before. I learned something from this whole debate which far far outweighs any ridicule I may recieve for being wrong about something.

I'm not ridiculing you. I'm offering more information for you to rationally consider. And ridiculing you a little, because it's fun.

1 I know quite a few people but I can see what you mean by that.
2 Agreed, however there is a difference between valuing how people see you indirectly (reputation) and valuing it directly (validtion seeking) I indirectly assume that by being polite I will probbably get people to take me more seriously but I dont actually seek their validation or care about what they think of me as long as it doesnt affect how they act towards me n a negative way.
3 I like your style

[Coccygia]

I detest political correctness. I detest it all the more because I often agree with its stated aims, which IMFAO it only undermines.

Oddly enough, I lived near a neighborhood with a large ethnic Jamaican population.

Me and the young black kids would get all awkward and offended when the old black people would laugh their asses off about who was working the cotton fields.

14 years later, me and Malc got the joke and nobody else did.

I don't get it either, nor what this has to do with my post.

[Galborg]

Fair enough, banning "nigger" makes sense.

But what is so offensive about "$10"? PC police insist we must say "$9.99".

What is so offensive about "literally"? PC police insist it must mean "metaphorically"

[Meryuma]

"Political correctness" in the sense of being pseudo-progressive and moralistic is annoying. "Political correctness" in the sense of not being a dick to minorities is pretty much an imperative.

One can support homosexuality, but will be protested if their against it, etc...

How is that in any way a double standard?

If for about a century and a half in the US, whites would be natural slaves to African Americans, and would find themselves lynched in trees with crowds cheering. 'Goodbye White trash' Then sure, I would see them as equally offensive. Now, white trash certainly has a racist undertone, but mostly related to the trailer trash culture, whereas the word nigger, is one that has so much historical weight behind it and implications that the two words will never be the same as far as the weight of it goes. However, that being said, a significant part of modern African American culture sure has debased it's original implications and that has not done them any favors

"White trash" is at least as much about class as race.

[SaintB]

Politically Correct is a term made up by people who want to be rude so that they can claim they are being oppressed because they can't be rude.

[Grave_n_idle]

Fair enough, banning "nigger" makes sense.

But what is so offensive about "$10"? PC police insist we must say "$9.99".

What is so offensive about "literally"? PC police insist it must mean "metaphorically"

Saying $9.99 isn't a PC thing, it's a business thing. It's perceived value - people are simply more likely to buy something that costs $9.99 than something that costs $10, even.

As for people using 'literally' when they mean 'metaphorically' (or 'implied' when they mean 'inferred', etc)... I'm not convinced that's a 'pc' thing, at all.

Indeed, I'm beginning to doubt the 'PC police' are even a real, recognised law-enforcement organisation.

[The Silence of Night]

Fair enough, banning "nigger" makes sense.

But what is so offensive about "$10"? PC police insist we must say "$9.99".

What is so offensive about "literally"? PC police insist it must mean "metaphorically"

Saying $9.99 isn't a PC thing, it's a business thing. It's perceived value - people are simply more likely to buy something that costs $9.99 than something that costs $10, even.

As for people using 'literally' when they mean 'metaphorically' (or 'implied' when they mean 'inferred', etc)... I'm not convinced that's a 'pc' thing, at all.

Indeed, I'm beginning to doubt the 'PC police' are even a real, recognised law-enforcement organisation.

I wouldn't say that. They're always watching.

[Dyakovo]

Fair enough, banning "nigger" makes sense.

But what is so offensive about "$10"? PC police insist we must say "$9.99".¹

What is so offensive about "literally"? PC police insist it must mean "metaphorically"²

1: Ummm... Things being priced at $9.99 instead of $10 has absolutely nothing at all to do with political correctness. It is a marketing ploy.
2: Once again, has nothing to do with political correctness... This time, however, it is a matter of linguistic accuracy... Do you even know what "literally" means?

literally
Pronunciation: /ˈlɪt(ə)rəli/
Translate literally | into French | into German | into Italian | into Spanish
adverb
in a literal manner or sense; exactly

[Grave_n_idle]

Fair enough, banning "nigger" makes sense.

But what is so offensive about "$10"? PC police insist we must say "$9.99".¹

What is so offensive about "literally"? PC police insist it must mean "metaphorically"²

1: Ummm... Things being priced at $9.99 instead of $10 has absolutely nothing at all to do with political correctness. It is a marketing ploy.
2: Once again, has nothing to do with political correctness... This time, however, it is a matter of linguistic accuracy... Do you even know what "literally" means?

literally
Pronunciation: /ˈlɪt(ə)rəli/
Translate literally | into French | into German | into Italian | into Spanish
adverb
in a literal manner or sense; exactly

I literally explode with rage, every time I have to explain that.

*nods*

[Cashewbutter]

The "PC" label gets misused both ways to shut down conversations. Some people argue against real objections to blatantly offensive wording by claiming the other person is just trying to force political correctness down their throat. And some people do resort to "OMG, that's offensive" when faced with an argument they're losing as a way to derail the discussion and move it towards something less logic-based and easier to win just by shouting louder. I've seen both situations occur many times, offline and online.

[The Rich Port]

The "PC" label gets misused both ways to shut down conversations. Some people argue against real objections to blatantly offensive wording by claiming the other person is just trying to force political correctness down their throat. And some people do resort to "OMG, that's offensive" when faced with an argument they're losing as a way to derail the discussion and move it towards something less logic-based and easier to win just by shouting louder. I've seen both situations occur many times, offline and online.

... Has that happened on NSG?

That would be a short way to not be liked on this forum.

[Bottle]

Perhaps your puzzlement at why people do not like being called offensive things is why you keep getting yourself into trouble. You are, as always, free to believe whatever you like - everyone here is. However on these forums, HOW you express those beliefs is what you will be called on, and held accountable for. It's the idea of having a place that, while not perfect, and not free of all offense, one can have a reasonable expectation of not being subjected to namecalling, trolling, flaming, etc.

Choose how you express your beliefs in a less inflammatory manner, or we're forced to barge in and start swinging warnings, bans, and deletions around. Which isn't really our end goal here.

Just a friendly reminder to you, Helltank, and anyone else who feels they may be struggling with this concept - don't act like a jerk, especially to your fellow posters. If you feel your next post may be somewhat jerkish in tone, think for a moment, and edit prior to posting. If you're posting with the deliberate intent of irritating another poster, stop, and go do something else until you can manage to avoid that little temptation. If you aren't sure - err on the side of caution. Most people using this site manage to pull this off on a regular basis, day in, and day out. It can be managed.

Oh no! The PC Police have struck!!!!

But...but...but...we totally don't need PC Police, y'all!

[Galborg]

Fair enough, banning "nigger" makes sense.

But what is so offensive about "$10"? PC police insist we must say "$9.99".

What is so offensive about "literally"? PC police insist it must mean "metaphorically"

Saying $9.99 isn't a PC thing, it's a business thing. It's perceived value - people are simply more likely to buy something that costs $9.99 than something that costs $10, even.

As for people using 'literally' when they mean 'metaphorically' (or 'implied' when they mean 'inferred', etc)... I'm not convinced that's a 'pc' thing, at all.

Indeed, I'm beginning to doubt the 'PC police' are even a real, recognised law-enforcement organisation.

No true Scotsman.

I assert that all PC police are literally in the same organization.

You assert that the Political correctness Police are fucking splitters.
Smoking Ban Police hate $9.99 Police who hate Literally Police who hate Winterval Police who hate Seatbelt Police.

Let's get them to fight each other.