Non-binary genders

[Grenartia]

What Grenartia said:

They're already saying it anyways. Its like worrying about a house catching on fire after its already burned to the ground.



Sex. Its not the same thing as gender.



1. And the difference between the two is? Absolutely nothing. Gender is a state of mind. If you think you're X gender, you ARE X gender.

2. Where are you getting that load of bullshit from? How much did it cost you to buy it? I need some to fertilize my front lawn.

My response:
1A.If a person thinks they are a dragon, they do not become a dragon.
But I know you guys here that same argument all the time so here's a better answer:
1B. It is possible for a person's gender to be different to what they think their gender is. For example, in their teens many people go through a phase of liking the same gender, but it is only a phase and before long they go straight again.
Some people feel like they are trapped in the wrong body. For many of these people they will genuinely be trans, however a small minority will just going through a phase.
There have been examples where somebody thinks they are trans, start hrt, maybe even had srs but then realise they made a mistake and that their gender and sex had actually matched the whole time. They thought their gender was the opposite to their sex, but just because they thought it was their gender for that phase doesn't mean it genuinely was.
2.I got that A* quality bullshit straight from your source, maybe you should try reading all of it.

1A. Do you not realize that there's a major fucking difference between identifying as an entirely different species (to say nothing of the fact that its a mythological species at that), and identifying as a different gender? If you knew that we'd heard this same old song and fucking dance before, why did it not cross your mind that we've refuted it before as well? Or do you have a thing for posting arguments you already know have been repeatedly refuted, beaten like the dead horse it is, resurrected, and beaten again?

1B. I can assure you that such cases are fairly rare, and most of the time, people are the gender they think they are.

2. I did, actually. I've quoted it in a paper for school. And quite frankly, you're reading shit into it that isn't there.

[Dyakovo]

DNA. XX. XY. Even if there's a genetic defect, a Y means male and no Y means female.

That's biological sex not gender.

[Bottle]

DNA. XX. XY. Even if there's a genetic defect, a Y means male and no Y means female.

Look. I know a lot of people have stupid notions about sex and gender. I know a lot of people have very strongly held stupid notions about sex and gender. And you know what? Fine. Whatever.

BUT STOP FUCKING USING SCIENCE WORDS WHEN YOU DON'T EVEN FUCKING KNOW WHAT THEY MEAN.

Seriously, I am sick to death of this bullshit where people who clearly don't know the first thing about genetics try to invoke "genes" or "chromosomes" to back up their own personal bigotries.

If you're too lazy to learn science then quit fucking appropriating it for your lazy-ass bigotry.

[Bottle]

DNA. XX. XY. Even if there's a genetic defect, a Y means male and no Y means female.

That's biological sex not gender.

And it's wrong anyhow.

I guarantee you that 99% of the people who try this bullshit "chromosomes" line couldn't even tell you how many chromosomes a human has without resorting to Google. They just figured out that science words make them sound marginally less stupid than they otherwise might sound, and they bank on having an audience that is as ignorant of science as they are.

[Grenartia]

They just figured out that science words make them sound marginally less stupid than they otherwise might sound, and they bank on having an audience that is as ignorant of science as they are.

Not unlike the people who wrote 50s sci-fi B movies.

[Liriena]

Has our LGBT hivemind assimilated all the naysayers yet? Or do I need to drag Andrej Pejic into this?

[Souseiseki]

Has our LGBT hivemind assimilated all the naysayers yet? Or do I need to drag Andrej Pejic into this?

not yet. after prolonged battle alaje was turned into a girl but otherwise assimilation has been slow.

[Zweite Alaje]

Has our LGBT hivemind assimilated all the naysayers yet? Or do I need to drag Andrej Pejic into this?

not yet. after prolonged battle alaje was turned into a girl but otherwise assimilation has been slow.

[Liriena]

not yet. after prolonged battle alaje was turned into a girl but otherwise assimilation has been slow.

Well, it's something, I suppose.

[United Meritocratic Athiest Democracy]

That's biological sex not gender.

And it's wrong anyhow.

I guarantee you that 99% of the people who try this bullshit "chromosomes" line couldn't even tell you how many chromosomes a human has without resorting to Google. They just figured out that science words make them sound marginally less stupid than they otherwise might sound, and they bank on having an audience that is as ignorant of science as they are.

...It's a better bet than many I've made.

[The Steel Magnolia]

My response
I don't remember saying that I know more about other people than they do themselves, but it may well of sounded like I was saying, which I am sorry for.

You did the second you rejected nonbinary people.

However if you are saying that I don't know about trans people or people who differ from what is considered normal in terms of gender and sexual preferences you are wrong.
I am myself bisexual and I currently shitting myself thinking about booking an appointment with my gp to discuss my gender identity issues, (im not saying any medical guy has said i'm definitely trans or that i've had any of the abuse or problems you might of faced) which is even harder seeing as I'm about to start a bunch of exams which will decide what career i'll get, and i'm as far in the closet you can get due to heavily religious conservative parents, lack of people who will support me and a bad national health care service but i know i've got to come out soon if I want to be young enough to pass eventually. In fact the only real advice I've had was from 4chan's /lgbt/ board who are mainly just obsessed with penises.

Anyway what i'm trying to say is not everybody with gender or sexual issues is a liberal or believes in non-binary genders.

Aaaaand, okay? I'm not a liberal, by the way, not even close. But you can be transgender and still be transphobic, just like you can be a woman and be misogynistic. It's quite easy.

Okay steel magnolia I've already done a response to you but I will add that i'm surprised you are okay with anyone who has gender issues being called trans, and that i'm suprised you are a feminist seeing how many of them hate trans people.

I'm absolutely not okay with calling everyone who has gender issues trans*. Drag queens aren't trans*. Crossdressers aren't trans*.

People who have a gender identity that differs from their birth sex (which is in and of itself a faulty definition) are trans*. Simple as that.

Trans is generally not considered the same as anyone with gender issues from what I've gathered talking to a lot of lgbt people online. I'm not insulted by it myself but I can see why many trans people would be. A lot of them don't want every autogynophile fetishist hopping onto their movement.

Okay I've got to do some work now so I probably won't reply for a few hours, or maybe a day or two.

Actually, I think "Gender Dysphoria" is the direct successor to GID. "Autogynephilia" and its counterpart "autoandrophilia" refer to being aroused by imagining oneself as the opposite gender, regardless of whether one actually identifies as that gender.

Ah, no, that's not quite how it works. The real problem regarding autogynephilia isn't its scientificness (which it isn't: Blanchard's studies contradict the hypothesis despite a non-random non-controlled involved unreliable sample), it's the political edge to it. Blanchard and his cronies are well known to be pushing this stuff in the DSM above the objections of WPATH because of his supposed expertise (when he was pushed out of WPATH over TMWWBQ controversy), and AGP is also used by ultraconservatives to deny trans rights.

Think about it. Cis women probably imagine themselves as women in their sexual fantasies. Doesn't that make them autogynephilies? Isn't it perfectly normal that a woman imagines herself as a woman in her sexual fantasies? Seems to me every single trans woman on the planet that isn't asexual would meet the criteria for autogynephilia. It's just an absurd concept no matter how you look at it. It's not worth thinking about because it doesn't exist.

It doesn't exist because you have to be transitioning in order to be classified as autogynephilic. It is a bullshit diagnosis based on the internal biases of one particular psychologist, and practically any other expert on gender identity issues would dismiss it as invalid. And it's important to remember that according to the description of autogynephilia and how it relates to transsexualism, trans men don't exist. It is a shitty bogus diagnosis that is used to deny womanhood to trans women.


http://www.tsroadmap.com/info/autogynephilia.html

read that. And fuck Ray Blanchard.

[Frisbeeteria]

There are only two sexes; male and female.

If you are female (as in you possess a vagina), but have male characteristics, you are female.

If you are male (as in you possess a penis), but have female characteristics, you are male.