NATION

PASSWORD

Stop expecting others to take care of you.

For discussion and debate about anything. (Not a roleplay related forum; out-of-character commentary only.)
User avatar
Hiddenrun
Ambassador
 
Posts: 1145
Founded: Jul 29, 2009
Ex-Nation

Stop expecting others to take care of you.

Postby Hiddenrun » Fri Sep 04, 2009 7:28 am

It's not just the whining about needing socialized medicine, it's the entire sense of entitlement that people seem to have. It should be very simple. If you can't afford it, you shouldn't have it. Period. If someone wants to get it for you, great. I don't happen to care about you at all, and I resent greatly the belief that I should somehow pay for you to access anything you can't get on your own.

Where do you think this notion came from? This lack of self-sufficiency? Are children being too coddled by their parents? Is it wider social conditioning, top down? For those of you living on the public teat, what makes you think you should be doing so?
Holder of unpopular opinions.

User avatar
Virtud Tierra
Diplomat
 
Posts: 861
Founded: Aug 11, 2009
Ex-Nation

Re: Stop expecting others to take care of you.

Postby Virtud Tierra » Fri Sep 04, 2009 7:31 am

I live off the government teat. They call it the MGIB.

User avatar
Fartsniffage
Post Czar
 
Posts: 33344
Founded: Dec 19, 2005
Liberal Democratic Socialists

Re: Stop expecting others to take care of you.

Postby Fartsniffage » Fri Sep 04, 2009 7:33 am

But I care about you Hidderun and I happily pay for people like you to have access to healthcare.

User avatar
Free Soviets
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 11254
Founded: Antiquity
Ex-Nation

Re: Stop expecting others to take care of you.

Postby Free Soviets » Fri Sep 04, 2009 7:35 am

Hiddenrun wrote:If you can't afford it, you shouldn't have it.

prove this claim

User avatar
Post-Unity Terra
Minister
 
Posts: 2309
Founded: Oct 20, 2008
Ex-Nation

Re: Stop expecting others to take care of you.

Postby Post-Unity Terra » Fri Sep 04, 2009 7:36 am

Hiddenrun wrote:Where do you think this notion came from? This lack of self-sufficiency? Are children being too coddled by their parents? Is it wider social conditioning, top down? For those of you living on the public teat, what makes you think you should be doing so?

A belief that government should work for the good of those it governs, rather than purely for wealth itself.

User avatar
Hiddenrun
Ambassador
 
Posts: 1145
Founded: Jul 29, 2009
Ex-Nation

Re: Stop expecting others to take care of you.

Postby Hiddenrun » Fri Sep 04, 2009 7:38 am

Fartsniffage wrote:But I care about you Hidderun and I happily pay for people like you to have access to healthcare.

That's your problem. I don't need your money, but if you're foolish enough to give it to me, there you go. Requiring me to do the same doesn't make sense.


Free Soviets wrote:
Hiddenrun wrote:If you can't afford it, you shouldn't have it.

prove this claim

Excuse me?

If you want something, then find the means to acquire it yourself. It's fairly simple. Even the worst paying job in America will allow you to eat, clothe yourself in the most basic of ways and access some sort of shelter. If you desire goods or services beyond that, then work harder.
Holder of unpopular opinions.

User avatar
Hiddenrun
Ambassador
 
Posts: 1145
Founded: Jul 29, 2009
Ex-Nation

Re: Stop expecting others to take care of you.

Postby Hiddenrun » Fri Sep 04, 2009 7:39 am

Post-Unity Terra wrote:A belief that government should work for the good of those it governs, rather than purely for wealth itself.

The good of who? The government takes from those who have, and gives to those too lazy to get it themselves. That works for the lazy, but not so well for those of us who actually earn our money.
Holder of unpopular opinions.

User avatar
Post-Unity Terra
Minister
 
Posts: 2309
Founded: Oct 20, 2008
Ex-Nation

Re: Stop expecting others to take care of you.

Postby Post-Unity Terra » Fri Sep 04, 2009 7:41 am

Hiddenrun wrote:
Post-Unity Terra wrote:A belief that government should work for the good of those it governs, rather than purely for wealth itself.

The good of who? The government takes from those who have, and gives to those too lazy to get it themselves. That works for the lazy, but not so well for those of us who actually earn our money.

Assuming all those who are poor are lazy, which is utter nonsense, though I'm sure you have a number of anecdotes to prove what you no doubt think is a killer point.

Even if it was true, welfare doesn't just go to those damned lazy shiftless oxygen-thieves. Here in the UK even a number of people who are working can claim some benefits to make life a little easier.
Last edited by Post-Unity Terra on Fri Sep 04, 2009 7:42 am, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
Fartsniffage
Post Czar
 
Posts: 33344
Founded: Dec 19, 2005
Liberal Democratic Socialists

Re: Stop expecting others to take care of you.

Postby Fartsniffage » Fri Sep 04, 2009 7:43 am

Hiddenrun wrote:That's your problem. I don't need your money, but if you're foolish enough to give it to me, there you go. Requiring me to do the same doesn't make sense..


And you would have it if you needed it.

Is it not arrogant, and stupid, to assume that your personal circumstances will never change to the point where you need help from the government? And if this did happen would you really stick to your principles and refuse it?

User avatar
Ravea
Senator
 
Posts: 3622
Founded: Antiquity
Ex-Nation

Re: Stop expecting others to take care of you.

Postby Ravea » Fri Sep 04, 2009 7:43 am

Hiddenrun wrote:
Fartsniffage wrote:But I care about you Hidderun and I happily pay for people like you to have access to healthcare.

That's your problem. I don't need your money, but if you're foolish enough to give it to me, there you go. Requiring me to do the same doesn't make sense.


Free Soviets wrote:
Hiddenrun wrote:If you can't afford it, you shouldn't have it.

prove this claim

Excuse me?

If you want something, then find the means to acquire it yourself. It's fairly simple. Even the worst paying job in America will allow you to eat, clothe yourself in the most basic of ways and access some sort of shelter. If you desire goods or services beyond that, then work harder.


What if you physically can't?
~Omnia mutantur, nihil interit~

User avatar
Virtud Tierra
Diplomat
 
Posts: 861
Founded: Aug 11, 2009
Ex-Nation

Re: Stop expecting others to take care of you.

Postby Virtud Tierra » Fri Sep 04, 2009 7:44 am

If you are working class and you get an unexpected and costly illness, there is simply no way you are not going to be fianically ruined by it.

Say a guy and his wife with highschool eduation work 40 hours a week, make 800$ a week between the two of them, and their goddamn 4 year old has leukemia. The treatments run into the hundreds of thousands and the kid dies anyways.

Thats some serious hardship that they could never have predicted or have been prepared for. Their insurance companies refuse to pay for it and they spend the rest of their lives working off interest on their debt.

Seems like their could be a more elegant arrangement then that.

User avatar
Megaloria
Chargé d'Affaires
 
Posts: 452
Founded: Jul 07, 2005
Ex-Nation

Re: Stop expecting others to take care of you.

Postby Megaloria » Fri Sep 04, 2009 7:45 am

Ravea wrote:
Hiddenrun wrote:
Fartsniffage wrote:But I care about you Hidderun and I happily pay for people like you to have access to healthcare.

That's your problem. I don't need your money, but if you're foolish enough to give it to me, there you go. Requiring me to do the same doesn't make sense.


Free Soviets wrote:
Hiddenrun wrote:If you can't afford it, you shouldn't have it.

prove this claim

Excuse me?

If you want something, then find the means to acquire it yourself. It's fairly simple. Even the worst paying job in America will allow you to eat, clothe yourself in the most basic of ways and access some sort of shelter. If you desire goods or services beyond that, then work harder.


What if you physically can't?


Then you get mushed up into Hiddenrun's soylent caviar, I guess.
Last edited by Megaloria on Fri Sep 04, 2009 7:45 am, edited 1 time in total.
Here's to the losers, bless them all.

User avatar
Post-Unity Terra
Minister
 
Posts: 2309
Founded: Oct 20, 2008
Ex-Nation

Re: Stop expecting others to take care of you.

Postby Post-Unity Terra » Fri Sep 04, 2009 7:45 am

Ravea wrote:
Hiddenrun wrote:
Fartsniffage wrote:But I care about you Hidderun and I happily pay for people like you to have access to healthcare.

That's your problem. I don't need your money, but if you're foolish enough to give it to me, there you go. Requiring me to do the same doesn't make sense.


Free Soviets wrote:
Hiddenrun wrote:If you can't afford it, you shouldn't have it.

prove this claim

Excuse me?

If you want something, then find the means to acquire it yourself. It's fairly simple. Even the worst paying job in America will allow you to eat, clothe yourself in the most basic of ways and access some sort of shelter. If you desire goods or services beyond that, then work harder.


What if you physically can't?


Then fuck you and fuck the third world.

User avatar
SD_Film Artists
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 10389
Founded: Jun 10, 2009
Father Knows Best State

Re: Stop expecting others to take care of you.

Postby SD_Film Artists » Fri Sep 04, 2009 7:46 am

Can't afford it, so you shouldn't have it? The National Health Service (or your "socialized medicine') is not a boob job, it's saving our citizen's lives- just as the Police and Fire Brigade does. That's why it has had cross-party support for decades. I still don't understand why it's seen as far-left extremism in the US. :blink:
Last edited by SD_Film Artists on Fri Sep 04, 2009 7:47 am, edited 1 time in total.
Lurking NSG since 2005
Economic Left/Right: -2.62, Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: 0.67
Science Under Attack
Autism/Aspergers
History of Games
When anybody preaches disunity, tries to pit one of us against each other through class warfare, race hatred, or religious intolerance, you know that person seeks to rob us of our freedom and destroy our very lives.


Charlie Brooker wrote:It's spider season. Every year, right about now, thousands of the godless eight-legged bastards emerge from the bowels of hell (or the garden, whichever's nearest) with the sole intention of tormenting humankind. Spider season is like a live-action version of the videogame Doom.

User avatar
Free Soviets
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 11254
Founded: Antiquity
Ex-Nation

Re: Stop expecting others to take care of you.

Postby Free Soviets » Fri Sep 04, 2009 7:46 am

Hiddenrun wrote:
Free Soviets wrote:
Hiddenrun wrote:If you can't afford it, you shouldn't have it.

prove this claim

Excuse me?

If you want something, then find the means to acquire it yourself. It's fairly simple. Even the worst paying job in America will allow you to eat, clothe yourself in the most basic of ways and access some sort of shelter. If you desire goods or services beyond that, then work harder.

that does not demonstrate the truth of your claim. prove to me that one should not have access to things they can't afford, because i don't believe you.

User avatar
Hiddenrun
Ambassador
 
Posts: 1145
Founded: Jul 29, 2009
Ex-Nation

Re: Stop expecting others to take care of you.

Postby Hiddenrun » Fri Sep 04, 2009 7:46 am

Post-Unity Terra wrote:Assuming all those who are poor are lazy, which is utter nonsense, though I'm sure you have a number of anecdotes to prove what you no doubt think is a killer point.

I can see providing a basic amount of financial help for people who are between jobs. Making it financially viable to not work, however, is unacceptable and all too common in the US. Of course, Britain is beginning to understand the problem now as well.

" Known as the “Shameless” family among horrified neighbours, the McFaddens “boast” three generations of adults who are not working.

All ten members of the clan share a council house and live off benefits amounting to around £32,000 a year. And very happy they are, too.

“The only problem is,” she [Sue Mcfadden] says without a hint of irony, “that we’re living in a three-bedroom council house, which is ridiculous.

“I’m asking the council for a ten-bedroom home for all of us. We need more space. It’s awful sometimes when all the children are squabbling. Still, we do have a big TV with Sky, but we need some relaxation.”

But the really disturbing aspect of the McFaddens’ lifestyle is that they are far from alone. Six million Britons are living in homes where no one has a job and “benefits are a way of life”, according to a report by MPs. Shock figures also revealed that 20,000 households in Britain are pocketing more than £30,000 a year in state benefits.

With thousands of children growing up in families where their parents and grandparents have never worked, a senior government adviser warned this week of a “terrible legacy” of youngsters who had no expectation of ever getting a job.


This cycle of dependency needs to be stopped, because re-educating children brought up to expect handouts is going to be a lot harder than just forcing able-bodied adults to get off their asses.
Holder of unpopular opinions.

User avatar
Fartsniffage
Post Czar
 
Posts: 33344
Founded: Dec 19, 2005
Liberal Democratic Socialists

Re: Stop expecting others to take care of you.

Postby Fartsniffage » Fri Sep 04, 2009 7:47 am

SD_Film Artists wrote:The National Health Service (or your "socialized medicine') is not a boob job, it's saving our citizen's lives- just as the Police and Fire Brigade does. That's why it has had cross-party support for decades. I still don't understand why it's seen as far-left extremism in the US. :blink:


It saved my life 2 weeks ago last Sunday. ;)

User avatar
Hiddenrun
Ambassador
 
Posts: 1145
Founded: Jul 29, 2009
Ex-Nation

Re: Stop expecting others to take care of you.

Postby Hiddenrun » Fri Sep 04, 2009 7:47 am

Free Soviets wrote:that does not demonstrate the truth of your claim. prove to me that one should not have access to things they can't afford, because i don't believe you.

How about, if you believe you are entitled to something you can't afford, you explain why the fuck we should buy it for you?

"I don't believe you, I think I should get things I can't afford" is a pretty stupid statement.
Holder of unpopular opinions.

User avatar
Post-Unity Terra
Minister
 
Posts: 2309
Founded: Oct 20, 2008
Ex-Nation

Re: Stop expecting others to take care of you.

Postby Post-Unity Terra » Fri Sep 04, 2009 7:47 am

SD_Film Artists wrote:The National Health Service (or your "socialized medicine') is not a boob job, it's saving our citizen's lives- just as the Police and Fire Brigade does. That's why it has had cross-party support for decades. I still don't understand why it's seen as far-left extremism in the US. :blink:

But it's enslaving heroic capitalists with taxes!

User avatar
Classical Liberal
Spokesperson
 
Posts: 193
Founded: Aug 22, 2009
Ex-Nation

Re: Stop expecting others to take care of you.

Postby Classical Liberal » Fri Sep 04, 2009 7:48 am

Virtud Tierra wrote:If you are working class and you get an unexpected and costly illness, there is simply no way you are not going to be fianically ruined by it.

Say a guy and his wife with highschool eduation work 40 hours a week, make 800$ a week between the two of them, and their goddamn 4 year old has leukemia. The treatments run into the hundreds of thousands and the kid dies anyways.

Thats some serious hardship that they could never have predicted or have been prepared for. Their insurance companies refuse to pay for it and they spend the rest of their lives working off interest on their debt.

Seems like their could be a more elegant arrangement then that.


Unfortunate; yes, deserving of sympathy; yes, deserving of having that footed by the taxpayers; no.
"New" liberal: Freedom Hating, Gun Despising, Capitalism Regulating, Baby Killing, Atheist, Pansie

I'm Perfect, I Thought I Wasn't Once But I Was Mistaken

Quotes:
"The Strongest Reason For The People To Retain The Right To Keep And Bear Arms Is As A Last Resort, To Protect Themselves Against the Tyranny In Government" ~ Thomas Jefferson

"All, Too, Will Bear In Mind This Sacred Principle, That Though The Will Of The Majority Is In All Cases To Prevail, That Will To Be Rightful Must Be Reasonable; That The Minority Possess Their Equal Rights, Which Equal Law Must Protect, And To Violate Would Be Oppression" ~ Thomas Jefferson

Chetssaland wrote:*points at fat, stupid, arrogant guy and democrat senator "Its your fault everyone hates us."

User avatar
Post-Unity Terra
Minister
 
Posts: 2309
Founded: Oct 20, 2008
Ex-Nation

Re: Stop expecting others to take care of you.

Postby Post-Unity Terra » Fri Sep 04, 2009 7:49 am

Classical Liberal wrote:
Virtud Tierra wrote:If you are working class and you get an unexpected and costly illness, there is simply no way you are not going to be fianically ruined by it.

Say a guy and his wife with highschool eduation work 40 hours a week, make 800$ a week between the two of them, and their goddamn 4 year old has leukemia. The treatments run into the hundreds of thousands and the kid dies anyways.

Thats some serious hardship that they could never have predicted or have been prepared for. Their insurance companies refuse to pay for it and they spend the rest of their lives working off interest on their debt.

Seems like their could be a more elegant arrangement then that.


Unfortunate; yes, deserving of sympathy; yes, deserving of having that footed by the taxpayers; no.

So it boils down to "How sad. Fuck you all the same."

User avatar
Fartsniffage
Post Czar
 
Posts: 33344
Founded: Dec 19, 2005
Liberal Democratic Socialists

Re: Stop expecting others to take care of you.

Postby Fartsniffage » Fri Sep 04, 2009 7:49 am

Classical Liberal wrote:Unfortunate; yes, deserving of sympathy; yes, deserving of having that footed by the taxpayers; no.


So who digs the ditches in this Republican paradise?
Last edited by Fartsniffage on Fri Sep 04, 2009 7:50 am, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
Classical Liberal
Spokesperson
 
Posts: 193
Founded: Aug 22, 2009
Ex-Nation

Re: Stop expecting others to take care of you.

Postby Classical Liberal » Fri Sep 04, 2009 7:50 am

Post-Unity Terra wrote:So it boils down to "How sad. Fuck you all the same."


If you want to look at it that way, which is not really my point, yes.
"New" liberal: Freedom Hating, Gun Despising, Capitalism Regulating, Baby Killing, Atheist, Pansie

I'm Perfect, I Thought I Wasn't Once But I Was Mistaken

Quotes:
"The Strongest Reason For The People To Retain The Right To Keep And Bear Arms Is As A Last Resort, To Protect Themselves Against the Tyranny In Government" ~ Thomas Jefferson

"All, Too, Will Bear In Mind This Sacred Principle, That Though The Will Of The Majority Is In All Cases To Prevail, That Will To Be Rightful Must Be Reasonable; That The Minority Possess Their Equal Rights, Which Equal Law Must Protect, And To Violate Would Be Oppression" ~ Thomas Jefferson

Chetssaland wrote:*points at fat, stupid, arrogant guy and democrat senator "Its your fault everyone hates us."

User avatar
Post-Unity Terra
Minister
 
Posts: 2309
Founded: Oct 20, 2008
Ex-Nation

Re: Stop expecting others to take care of you.

Postby Post-Unity Terra » Fri Sep 04, 2009 7:50 am

Fartsniffage wrote:
Classical Liberal wrote:Unfortunate; yes, deserving of sympathy; yes, deserving of having that footed by the taxpayers; no.


So who digs the ditches in this Republican paradise?

Orphans and the not-too-crippled.

User avatar
Classical Liberal
Spokesperson
 
Posts: 193
Founded: Aug 22, 2009
Ex-Nation

Re: Stop expecting others to take care of you.

Postby Classical Liberal » Fri Sep 04, 2009 7:50 am

Fartsniffage wrote:
Classical Liberal wrote:Unfortunate; yes, deserving of sympathy; yes, deserving of having that footed by the taxpayers; no.


So who digs the ditches in this Republican paradise?


What?
"New" liberal: Freedom Hating, Gun Despising, Capitalism Regulating, Baby Killing, Atheist, Pansie

I'm Perfect, I Thought I Wasn't Once But I Was Mistaken

Quotes:
"The Strongest Reason For The People To Retain The Right To Keep And Bear Arms Is As A Last Resort, To Protect Themselves Against the Tyranny In Government" ~ Thomas Jefferson

"All, Too, Will Bear In Mind This Sacred Principle, That Though The Will Of The Majority Is In All Cases To Prevail, That Will To Be Rightful Must Be Reasonable; That The Minority Possess Their Equal Rights, Which Equal Law Must Protect, And To Violate Would Be Oppression" ~ Thomas Jefferson

Chetssaland wrote:*points at fat, stupid, arrogant guy and democrat senator "Its your fault everyone hates us."

Next

Advertisement

Remove ads

Return to General

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Aclion, Black Moon Archmagocracy, Dumb Ideologies, Greater Miami Shores and La Habana Cuba, Greater vakolicci haven, Hirota, Infected Mushroom, Kowani, Nakena, Nathanstein, Neanderthaland, The East Marches II, Uiiop, Xuloqoia

Advertisement

Remove ads