Stop expecting others to take care of you.

[Hiddenrun]

It's not just the whining about needing socialized medicine, it's the entire sense of entitlement that people seem to have. It should be very simple. If you can't afford it, you shouldn't have it. Period. If someone wants to get it for you, great. I don't happen to care about you at all, and I resent greatly the belief that I should somehow pay for you to access anything you can't get on your own.

Where do you think this notion came from? This lack of self-sufficiency? Are children being too coddled by their parents? Is it wider social conditioning, top down? For those of you living on the public teat, what makes you think you should be doing so?

[Virtud Tierra]

I live off the government teat. They call it the MGIB.

[Fartsniffage]

But I care about you Hidderun and I happily pay for people like you to have access to healthcare.

[Free Soviets]

If you can't afford it, you shouldn't have it.

prove this claim

[Post-Unity Terra]

Where do you think this notion came from? This lack of self-sufficiency? Are children being too coddled by their parents? Is it wider social conditioning, top down? For those of you living on the public teat, what makes you think you should be doing so?

A belief that government should work for the good of those it governs, rather than purely for wealth itself.

[Hiddenrun]

But I care about you Hidderun and I happily pay for people like you to have access to healthcare.

That's your problem. I don't need your money, but if you're foolish enough to give it to me, there you go. Requiring me to do the same doesn't make sense.

If you can't afford it, you shouldn't have it.

prove this claim

Excuse me?

If you want something, then find the means to acquire it yourself. It's fairly simple. Even the worst paying job in America will allow you to eat, clothe yourself in the most basic of ways and access some sort of shelter. If you desire goods or services beyond that, then work harder.

[Hiddenrun]

A belief that government should work for the good of those it governs, rather than purely for wealth itself.

The good of who? The government takes from those who have, and gives to those too lazy to get it themselves. That works for the lazy, but not so well for those of us who actually earn our money.

[Post-Unity Terra]

A belief that government should work for the good of those it governs, rather than purely for wealth itself.

The good of who? The government takes from those who have, and gives to those too lazy to get it themselves. That works for the lazy, but not so well for those of us who actually earn our money.

Assuming all those who are poor are lazy, which is utter nonsense, though I'm sure you have a number of anecdotes to prove what you no doubt think is a killer point.

Even if it was true, welfare doesn't just go to those damned lazy shiftless oxygen-thieves. Here in the UK even a number of people who are working can claim some benefits to make life a little easier.

[Fartsniffage]

That's your problem. I don't need your money, but if you're foolish enough to give it to me, there you go. Requiring me to do the same doesn't make sense..

And you would have it if you needed it.

Is it not arrogant, and stupid, to assume that your personal circumstances will never change to the point where you need help from the government? And if this did happen would you really stick to your principles and refuse it?

[Ravea]

But I care about you Hidderun and I happily pay for people like you to have access to healthcare.

That's your problem. I don't need your money, but if you're foolish enough to give it to me, there you go. Requiring me to do the same doesn't make sense.

If you can't afford it, you shouldn't have it.

prove this claim

Excuse me?

If you want something, then find the means to acquire it yourself. It's fairly simple. Even the worst paying job in America will allow you to eat, clothe yourself in the most basic of ways and access some sort of shelter. If you desire goods or services beyond that, then work harder.

What if you physically can't?

[Virtud Tierra]

If you are working class and you get an unexpected and costly illness, there is simply no way you are not going to be fianically ruined by it.

Say a guy and his wife with highschool eduation work 40 hours a week, make 800$ a week between the two of them, and their goddamn 4 year old has leukemia. The treatments run into the hundreds of thousands and the kid dies anyways.

Thats some serious hardship that they could never have predicted or have been prepared for. Their insurance companies refuse to pay for it and they spend the rest of their lives working off interest on their debt.

Seems like their could be a more elegant arrangement then that.

[Megaloria]

But I care about you Hidderun and I happily pay for people like you to have access to healthcare.

That's your problem. I don't need your money, but if you're foolish enough to give it to me, there you go. Requiring me to do the same doesn't make sense.

If you can't afford it, you shouldn't have it.

prove this claim

Excuse me?

If you want something, then find the means to acquire it yourself. It's fairly simple. Even the worst paying job in America will allow you to eat, clothe yourself in the most basic of ways and access some sort of shelter. If you desire goods or services beyond that, then work harder.

What if you physically can't?

Then you get mushed up into Hiddenrun's soylent caviar, I guess.

[Post-Unity Terra]

But I care about you Hidderun and I happily pay for people like you to have access to healthcare.

That's your problem. I don't need your money, but if you're foolish enough to give it to me, there you go. Requiring me to do the same doesn't make sense.

If you can't afford it, you shouldn't have it.

prove this claim

Excuse me?

If you want something, then find the means to acquire it yourself. It's fairly simple. Even the worst paying job in America will allow you to eat, clothe yourself in the most basic of ways and access some sort of shelter. If you desire goods or services beyond that, then work harder.

What if you physically can't?

Then fuck you and fuck the third world.

[SD_Film Artists]

Can't afford it, so you shouldn't have it? The National Health Service (or your "socialized medicine') is not a boob job, it's saving our citizen's lives- just as the Police and Fire Brigade does. That's why it has had cross-party support for decades. I still don't understand why it's seen as far-left extremism in the US.

[Free Soviets]

If you can't afford it, you shouldn't have it.

prove this claim

Excuse me?

If you want something, then find the means to acquire it yourself. It's fairly simple. Even the worst paying job in America will allow you to eat, clothe yourself in the most basic of ways and access some sort of shelter. If you desire goods or services beyond that, then work harder.

that does not demonstrate the truth of your claim. prove to me that one should not have access to things they can't afford, because i don't believe you.

[Hiddenrun]

Assuming all those who are poor are lazy, which is utter nonsense, though I'm sure you have a number of anecdotes to prove what you no doubt think is a killer point.

I can see providing a basic amount of financial help for people who are between jobs. Making it financially viable to not work, however, is unacceptable and all too common in the US. Of course, Britain is beginning to understand the problem now as well.

" Known as the “Shameless” family among horrified neighbours, the McFaddens “boast” three generations of adults who are not working.

All ten members of the clan share a council house and live off benefits amounting to around £32,000 a year. And very happy they are, too.

“The only problem is,” she [Sue Mcfadden] says without a hint of irony, “that we’re living in a three-bedroom council house, which is ridiculous.

“I’m asking the council for a ten-bedroom home for all of us. We need more space. It’s awful sometimes when all the children are squabbling. Still, we do have a big TV with Sky, but we need some relaxation.”

But the really disturbing aspect of the McFaddens’ lifestyle is that they are far from alone. Six million Britons are living in homes where no one has a job and “benefits are a way of life”, according to a report by MPs. Shock figures also revealed that 20,000 households in Britain are pocketing more than £30,000 a year in state benefits.

With thousands of children growing up in families where their parents and grandparents have never worked, a senior government adviser warned this week of a “terrible legacy” of youngsters who had no expectation of ever getting a job.

This cycle of dependency needs to be stopped, because re-educating children brought up to expect handouts is going to be a lot harder than just forcing able-bodied adults to get off their asses.

[Fartsniffage]

The National Health Service (or your "socialized medicine') is not a boob job, it's saving our citizen's lives- just as the Police and Fire Brigade does. That's why it has had cross-party support for decades. I still don't understand why it's seen as far-left extremism in the US.

It saved my life 2 weeks ago last Sunday.

[Hiddenrun]

that does not demonstrate the truth of your claim. prove to me that one should not have access to things they can't afford, because i don't believe you.

How about, if you believe you are entitled to something you can't afford, you explain why the fuck we should buy it for you?

"I don't believe you, I think I should get things I can't afford" is a pretty stupid statement.

[Post-Unity Terra]

The National Health Service (or your "socialized medicine') is not a boob job, it's saving our citizen's lives- just as the Police and Fire Brigade does. That's why it has had cross-party support for decades. I still don't understand why it's seen as far-left extremism in the US.

But it's enslaving heroic capitalists with taxes!

[Classical Liberal]

If you are working class and you get an unexpected and costly illness, there is simply no way you are not going to be fianically ruined by it.

Say a guy and his wife with highschool eduation work 40 hours a week, make 800$ a week between the two of them, and their goddamn 4 year old has leukemia. The treatments run into the hundreds of thousands and the kid dies anyways.

Thats some serious hardship that they could never have predicted or have been prepared for. Their insurance companies refuse to pay for it and they spend the rest of their lives working off interest on their debt.

Seems like their could be a more elegant arrangement then that.

Unfortunate; yes, deserving of sympathy; yes, deserving of having that footed by the taxpayers; no.

[Post-Unity Terra]

If you are working class and you get an unexpected and costly illness, there is simply no way you are not going to be fianically ruined by it.

Say a guy and his wife with highschool eduation work 40 hours a week, make 800$ a week between the two of them, and their goddamn 4 year old has leukemia. The treatments run into the hundreds of thousands and the kid dies anyways.

Thats some serious hardship that they could never have predicted or have been prepared for. Their insurance companies refuse to pay for it and they spend the rest of their lives working off interest on their debt.

Seems like their could be a more elegant arrangement then that.

Unfortunate; yes, deserving of sympathy; yes, deserving of having that footed by the taxpayers; no.

So it boils down to "How sad. Fuck you all the same."

[Fartsniffage]

Unfortunate; yes, deserving of sympathy; yes, deserving of having that footed by the taxpayers; no.

So who digs the ditches in this Republican paradise?

[Classical Liberal]

So it boils down to "How sad. Fuck you all the same."

If you want to look at it that way, which is not really my point, yes.

[Post-Unity Terra]

Unfortunate; yes, deserving of sympathy; yes, deserving of having that footed by the taxpayers; no.

So who digs the ditches in this Republican paradise?

Orphans and the not-too-crippled.

[Classical Liberal]

Unfortunate; yes, deserving of sympathy; yes, deserving of having that footed by the taxpayers; no.

So who digs the ditches in this Republican paradise?

What?