British Empire - Good or Bad?

[KludgeMUSH]

Well, given that the most apparent and noticeable product of the British Empire is America, and that if the British had stayed home, we'd probably be dealing with the Mexican Empire today, you decide whether that would have been good or bad.

[Blazedtown]

All nations based on imperialism are bad, including Britain

Name one country that has never used force to try and expand its borders and influence. I'll even believe you.

[Angleter]

Good- spreading technology just as the Romans did before them.



Yea, because it was only England that sailed overseas..

No, of course the English weren't. But the English Culture was the one culture that did spread. But I was referring to the term British today in my statement. There aren't British Haggises, but there are British teas. Calling it British seems silly to me when they are distinct cultures, that in my opinion shouldn't be "plopped" together.

British Tea culture isn't an exclusively English phenomenon. Indeed, the common or garden tea most Britons drink today is believed by many to have been a Scottish blend popularised by Queen Victoria, who loved Scottish culture- and Victoria (as well as the Scots' disproportionate presence in the Empire's Army) is of course why bagpipes, kilts, etc. are popular throughout the world, particularly in the Commonwealth. Nova Scotia and New Zealand's South Island are particularly Scottish, and the Scots were particularly instrumental in the late 18th century British Empire's economy, funding the Scottish Enlightenment. The Highlanders and Ulster Scots also provide the lion's share of the basis for Upper Southern/Appalachian (WV, TN, KY) culture in the USA- country music, bluegrass, etc.

I needn't go into the massive Irish influence on Commonwealth culture because it's bleedingly obvious, so it's silly to say that only English culture permeated through the Empire.

Also, many things popularised over the last century are universal to all Britain- not least the shared history of the Empire- and so it is proper to consider that while each nation of the Union has its unique cultures (and local differences then- none more so than the Lowlander/Highland Gaelic/Shetland & Orkney divisions in Scotland), there are many things that unify us as well. Chicken Tikka Masala, for example, originates from Glasgow.

[SD_Film Artists]

Scottish culture was spread, just as English was.

And yes there is British Haggis, as it was invented in England and popularised in Scotland- same goes for the kilt skirt (but not the full-body kilt, that's 100% Scottish).

I disagree. I've never heard one person refer it as a British Haggis, only as a Scottish Haggis, nor have I ever heard anyone claim it was invented in England. And the kilt is one minor aspect of Scottish Culture that was spread. I'm talking about Highland Culture, the Gaelic Language and traditions were all oppressed while the English culture spread.

Before Lord Dacre, the "kilt" was the full-body thing that you see in Medieval 2 Total War.

And if Scottish soldiers playing the bagpipe while wearing kilts in the Empire isn't "Scottish culture" then I don't know what is.

As for the gaelic language, oppressed by who? And please, let's not get into Mel Gibson hyperbole.

[Angleter]

I disagree. I've never heard one person refer it as a British Haggis, only as a Scottish Haggis, nor have I ever heard anyone claim it was invented in England. And the kilt is one minor aspect of Scottish Culture that was spread. I'm talking about Highland Culture, the Gaelic Language and traditions were all oppressed while the English culture spread.

Before Lord Dacre, the kilt was the full-body thing that you see in Medieval 2 Total War.

And if Scottish soldiers playing the bagpipe in the Empire isn't "Scottish culture" then I don't know what is.

As for the gaelic language, oppressed by who? And please, let's not get into Mel Gibson hyperbole.

Oppressed not nearly so much by the English as by the Lowlanders, who granted spoke English, but formed from the 15th century on (or even earlier) the nucleus of the state of Scotland, and to this day dislike England more than they do the 'Teuchters'. Curiously enough, however, despite being acutely aware of the Highland-Lowland divide within Scotland, H Alba seems to declare pride in being Scottish as a whole (and that whole has for many centuries been Anglophone Lowland dominated), rather than in being a Highlander.

[Nazis in Space]

Being the largest drug cartel & largest human trafficking organisation in the world's history. Good or bad?

[Rome and arabia]

Care to elaborate?

All the British Empire did was spread English culture around the world. I am glad the world is the way it is today, yes. And I wouldn't want to go back to change it. I think there were more effective ways then building an empire.

As for my second statement I feel the term British is unfair. When people say British then tend to mean English, and the "other Brits' are left out in "British Culture".

Well now I have to explain the origins of that term,

Britannia was a term given to the island by the romans. The word was originally a greek term for island chain, but came to represent the entire British isles, so British means to hail somewhere in the British isles

[SD_Film Artists]

Being the largest drug cartel & largest human trafficking organisation in the world's history. Good or bad?

Revolutionising the world's technology and united- good or bad?

See, I can cherry-pick too!

[Blazedtown]

Being the largest drug cartel & largest human trafficking organisation in the world's history. Good or bad?

Good.

[Muspelheim II]

To sum up hundreds of years of history in either of two words is foolish and utterly naive. The British Empire was responsible for a lot of evil in the world, and its legacy is still felt today. But at the same time it provided a strong government, the basics of democracy, a common language and foundations for prosperity.

You have to question if it wasn't the British then who would it have been? It'd probably be the French or Spanish who dominated much of the world. The British just managed to exploit technology, people and power better. Since its decline many of the countries it once occupied have lacked what the British provided. Look at Zimbabwe, India, Pakistan, Egypt... They've since been controlled by corrupt governments and brutal dictators, leaving the question 'would they have been better under the British?'

[Delmire]

Good- spreading technology just as the Romans did before them.



Yea, because it was only England that sailed overseas..

No, of course the English weren't. But the English Culture was the one culture that did spread. But I was referring to the term British today in my statement. There aren't British Haggises, but there are British teas. Calling it British seems silly to me when they are distinct cultures, that in my opinion shouldn't be "plopped" together.

I agree in part, but I hate it when people say England and mean Britain or UK, Great Britain should be used more often than it is not less. The cultural and historical achievements in every field was done from the moment of union as a whole not as individual nations, after all every nation could be broken down into hundreds based on culture, language, inventions, favourite foods, sports, history...
Each county has that alone! Eccles should have launched a civil war by now so its cakes dont get called 'British' (a geographical location that is technically correct, same for politicly actually when I think about it...

The British empire has been described as the empire of good intentions, most of the time (America, Africa, India etc.) Britain got involved because of other colonial powers, *cough*France*cough* and so it can be said in the beginning at least it didn't go looking for one. As empires go it was one of/the best, but as all other nations/tribes/empires.etc. had some dark moments.

[Nazis in Space]

Being the largest drug cartel & largest human trafficking organisation in the world's history. Good or bad?

Revolutionising the world's technology and united- good or bad?

See, I can cherry-pick too!

Manchester United is another strike against, you know.

[Shikarta]

Good- spreading technology just as the Romans did before them.

And also spread poison gas on Kurds and Arabs, and threw the Boers in concentration camps, amongst literally countless other crimes against humanity with barely any penance.

And if anyone accuses me of cherrypicking, you must therefore be excusing spreading 'technology', which could have equally been achieved through peaceful means, with some of the most brutal crimes witnessed by the world.

[Blazedtown]

Good- spreading technology just as the Romans did before them.

And also spread poison gas on Kurds and Arabs, and threw the Boers in concentration camps, amongst literally countless other crimes against humanity with barely any penance.

Name one country that truly shaped the world without racking up a body count.

[South Norfair]

It was very bad. India used to actually be one of the wealthiest and most developed places in the world until the british colonized it in the 18th century.

I'll take democracy, liberty and other enlightenment era ideals over Hindu and Muslim monarchy and mysticism any day of the week.

You'd take it, but nobody asked those elder civilizations what they would take, it was just imposed on them and in most cases it didn't work as well as the previous system.

The British Empire was built with selfish, evil intent, with good results around certain parts of the world; in other parts, the disruption caused in a civilization split in different colonies has created issues many countries are still struggling to resolve. The same can be said of most colonial powers, but in a smaller scope.

[H-Alba]

I disagree. I've never heard one person refer it as a British Haggis, only as a Scottish Haggis, nor have I ever heard anyone claim it was invented in England. And the kilt is one minor aspect of Scottish Culture that was spread. I'm talking about Highland Culture, the Gaelic Language and traditions were all oppressed while the English culture spread.

Before Lord Dacre, the "kilt" was the full-body thing that you see in Medieval 2 Total War.

And if Scottish soldiers playing the bagpipe while wearing kilts in the Empire isn't "Scottish culture" then I don't know what is.

As for the gaelic language, oppressed by who? And please, let's not get into Mel Gibson hyperbole.

The lowland Scots, who are anglophones. My granddad had the tawse used on him, just for speaking Gaelic in School, and it was common for Gaels to be beat after school for using the language. That's really "being friendly" isn't it?

Oppressed not nearly so much by the English as by the Lowlanders, who granted spoke English, but formed from the 15th century on (or even earlier) the nucleus of the state of Scotland, and to this day dislike England more than they do the 'Teuchters'. Curiously enough, however, despite being acutely aware of the Highland-Lowland divide within Scotland, H Alba seems to declare pride in being Scottish as a whole (and that whole has for many centuries been Anglophone Lowland dominated), rather than in being a Highlander.

I'm more proud of being a Highlander, and an Ethno-Linguistic Gael, but that doesn't make me "not Scottish". I'm proud of the Gaelic Culture, more then I am of just "being Scottish over all". Would you prefer I be more specific in my signature?

[Shikarta]

And also spread poison gas on Kurds and Arabs, and threw the Boers in concentration camps, amongst literally countless other crimes against humanity with barely any penance.

Name one country that truly shaped the world without racking up a body count.

So 'shaping' the world according to your own culture excuses the committing of crimes against humanity, does it?

[Dyakovo]

Before Lord Dacre, the "kilt" was the full-body thing that you see in Medieval 2 Total War.

And if Scottish soldiers playing the bagpipe while wearing kilts in the Empire isn't "Scottish culture" then I don't know what is.

As for the gaelic language, oppressed by who? And please, let's not get into Mel Gibson hyperbole.

The lowland Scots, who are anglophones. My granddad had the tawse used on him, just for speaking Gaelic in School, and it was common for Gaels to be beat after school for using the language. That's really "being friendly" isn't it?

Its more friendly than killing them...

[The Black Forrest]

Care to elaborate?

All the British Empire did was spread English culture around the world.

Yeaah well not a fault. Every empire spreed it's own culture where it went.

I am glad the world is the way it is today, yes. And I wouldn't want to go back to change it. I think there were more effective ways then building an empire.

Oh do tell.

As for my second statement I feel the term British is unfair. When people say British then tend to mean English, and the "other Brits' are left out in "British Culture".

It's called Great Britain.

And what exactly is British Culture?

[Blazedtown]

I'll take democracy, liberty and other enlightenment era ideals over Hindu and Muslim monarchy and mysticism any day of the week.

You'd take it, but nobody asked those elder civilizations what they would take, it was just imposed on them and in most cases it didn't work as well as the previous system.

Who cares? If they were able to be beaten into submission by an island half way around the world, they were past their prime and had grow stagnant. New countries rise and overtake the old powers. Its the progression of history.

[SD_Film Artists]

Good- spreading technology just as the Romans did before them.

And also spread poison gas on Kurds and Arabs, and threw the Boers in concentration camps, amongst literally countless other crimes against humanity with barely any penance.

And if anyone accuses me of cherrypicking, you must therefore be excusing spreading 'technology', which could have equally been achieved through peaceful means, with some of the most brutal crimes witnessed by the world.

Creating railways in Zulu-era Africa without force.....hmmmmmmmmmm

[Muspelheim II]

It was very bad. India used to actually be one of the wealthiest and most developed places in the world until the british colonized it in the 18th century.

Do you mean Mughal Empire? Maratha confederacy? The Mughal Empire came about because of an invasion and ended because of an invader. The British didn't make the Indian sub-continent less developed, they diverted wealth to the British Isles. But they did develop hospitals, bring in medicines, developed transport infrastructure (which is still used today), developed commercial hubs and cities across India.

[Angleter]

Oppressed not nearly so much by the English as by the Lowlanders, who granted spoke English, but formed from the 15th century on (or even earlier) the nucleus of the state of Scotland, and to this day dislike England more than they do the 'Teuchters'. Curiously enough, however, despite being acutely aware of the Highland-Lowland divide within Scotland, H Alba seems to declare pride in being Scottish as a whole (and that whole has for many centuries been Anglophone Lowland dominated), rather than in being a Highlander.

I'm more proud of being a Highlander, and an Ethno-Linguistic Gael, but that doesn't make me "not Scottish". I'm proud of the Gaelic Culture, more then I am of just "being Scottish over all". Would you prefer I be more specific in my signature?

By all means, because I don't remember you ever having much love for the Lowland culture. And if one is able to be a proud Highlander and consider oneself Scottish in general, I see no reason why the buck must stop at Hadrian's Wall and you can't identify as British as well.

[Blazedtown]

And also spread poison gas on Kurds and Arabs, and threw the Boers in concentration camps, amongst literally countless other crimes against humanity with barely any penance.

And if anyone accuses me of cherrypicking, you must therefore be excusing spreading 'technology', which could have equally been achieved through peaceful means, with some of the most brutal crimes witnessed by the world.

Creating railways in Zulu-era Africa without force.....hmmmmmmmmmm

Can you do anything in Africa without force?

[Takaram]

As a citizen of the former 14th British colony in America, I'm rather divided. On the one hand, they spread a lot of ideas around the world that I rather like, but at the same time they could be rather oppressive and racist at times.