Confederate Emblems to be Removed Nationwide.

[Deuxtete]

I'm a fan of Lee, and I respect much of him. Sometimes we respect peoples in spite of some of the things they did.
Next time I talk about lee I won't be lying.

[Alien Space Bats]

While New England factory owners pushed for tariffs to make themselves richer at our own expense, and the government was increasingly seen as a foreign establishment, not representing us?

New England factory owners may have PUSHED for high tariffs, but they sure as Hell didn't GET them.

Tariffs were actually lower in 1860 than they'd been at any point in time since the end of the War of 1812.

Want to try again?

[Yumyumsuppertime]

I'm a fan of Lee, and I respect much of him. Sometimes we respect peoples in spite of some of the things they did.
Next time I talk about lee I won't be lying.

You weren't lying. You were simply mistaken. It happens to all of us. No worries.

[USS Monitor]

Then why are you fucking talking about it since it's completely irrelevant to what I said?



I do have my facts straight. You're just posting stuff that has no relevance.

1 presidents did own slaves while in the white house. Contrary to what you DID say.

That is not what I said at all.

2 I never said Grant owned slaves in the White house, I pointed out Lincoln never owned any at all..to someone else, at which point you thought you were going to comment refuting that fact with your bullshit.

Not what happened.

Someone was talking about slaves being treated better in the South than how free blacks were treated in the North, which is bullshit, but that wasn't the point I got into the conversation to discuss. Someone else -- and I honestly don't remember whether it was you or another poster -- chimed in to say "that was under Grant," which implies that slavery still existed during Grant's presidency. I then pointed out that this was inaccurate since slavery was abolished by then. And you went off on this irrelevant tangent about presidents owning slaves.

[USS Monitor]

I'm a fan of Lee, and I respect much of him. Sometimes we respect peoples in spite of some of the things they did.
Next time I talk about lee I won't be lying.

I'm like that with Sherman. He was really fucking racist, but I still can't help admiring what he accomplished militarily and just generally rooting for him.

[USS Monitor]

While New England factory owners pushed for tariffs to make themselves richer at our own expense, and the government was increasingly seen as a foreign establishment, not representing us?

New England factory owners may have PUSHED for high tariffs, but they sure as Hell didn't GET them.

Tariffs were actually lower in 1860 than they'd been at any point in time since the end of the War of 1812.

Want to try again?

But they TALKED about raising tariffs and who wants to listen to New Englanders TALK? I mean, those accents...

[Deuxtete]

Grant himself had been a slave owner prior to the war.

Someone earlier had made the claim about Lincoln, I believe Grant was the last president to have ever owned slaves. He was however definitely one of the 12 who had.

He didn't own slaves while he was president and neither did anyone else.

1 presidents did own slaves while in the white house. Contrary to what you DID say.

That is not what I said at all.

Well it seems that is what the fuck you said.

2 I never said Grant owned slaves in the White house, I pointed out Lincoln never owned any at all..to someone else, at which point you thought you were going to comment refuting that fact with your bullshit.

Not what happened.

Someone was talking about slaves being treated better in the South than how free blacks were treated in the North, which is bullshit, but that wasn't the point I got into the conversation to discuss. Someone else -- and I honestly don't remember whether it was you or another poster -- chimed in to say "that was under Grant," which implies that slavery still existed during Grant's presidency. I then pointed out that this was inaccurate since slavery was abolished by then. And you went off on this irrelevant tangent about presidents owning slaves.

You corrected another poster who said, grant was a slave owner, which he was...duh.
You then tried the same dumb shit with me but as you can see plainly above, you expanded your bullshit to include the claim that NO ONE owned slaves in the white house, I don't know just because Grant didn't... I suppose.

Finally, ignore this horse shit of pretending you didn't claim no one owned slaves in the white house, you're now going to pretend you imagined I said, suggested, offered inuendo to the idea free blacks in the north were worse off than black slaves in the south.

Since I've established you aren't honest about what you yourself said... I defy you to find where I suggested anything like that, but likely you're even less honest about what you claim other people say.

[The Empire of Pretantia]

He didn't own slaves while he was president and neither did anyone else.

That is not what I said at all.

Well it seems that is what the fuck you said.

He didn't own slaves while he was president and neither did anyone else [while Grant was president].

Better?

[Nationes Pii Redivivi]

The Confederate Flag is a symbol of the Confederate States of America, which is, itself, a racist country, founded to defend a racist institution, and any pride in your "rebel" heritage, is simply pride in "rebelling because you can't accept blacks are equals". I think that no government institution should have it, no state should be proud of that treasonous emblem (while decrying percieved treason where no exist), and should be taken down.


That said, I don't see how this affect the right of many individual Americans to proudly show it off to the world and warn every sane person that they are fucking racist cunts who should be treated with nothing but the utmost contempt.

[Neutraligon]

Funny thing is if you want a rebel flag just use the US one with 13 stars.

[Yumyumsuppertime]

Funny thing is if you want a rebel flag just use the US one with 13 stars.

For all of their faults, the Tea Party at least had a good idea with the "Don't Tread On Me" flag.

[The Cobalt Sky]

Funny thing is if you want a rebel flag just use the US one with 13 stars.

For all of their faults, the Tea Party at least had a good idea with the "Don't Tread On Me" flag.

I always thought there were a lot of very religious Christians in the Tea Party? Weird that they choose a serpent of all things to represent them. I mean, I can see where they take it from but I still find it odd.

[USS Monitor]

He didn't own slaves while he was president and neither did anyone else.

That is not what I said at all.

Well it seems that is what the fuck you said.

No, it's not, but now I see how you arrived at that misunderstanding.

The way I meant it was: Grant didn't own slaves while he was president. Nobody else owned slaves while he was president either.

Not what happened.

Someone was talking about slaves being treated better in the South than how free blacks were treated in the North, which is bullshit, but that wasn't the point I got into the conversation to discuss. Someone else -- and I honestly don't remember whether it was you or another poster -- chimed in to say "that was under Grant," which implies that slavery still existed during Grant's presidency. I then pointed out that this was inaccurate since slavery was abolished by then. And you went off on this irrelevant tangent about presidents owning slaves.

You corrected another poster who said, grant was a slave owner, which he was...duh.
You then tried the same dumb shit with me but as you can see plainly above, you expanded your bullshit to include the claim that NO ONE owned slaves in the white house, I don't know just because Grant didn't... I suppose.

Finally, ignore this horse shit of pretending you didn't claim no one owned slaves in the white house, you're now going to pretend you imagined I said, suggested, offered inuendo to the idea free blacks in the north were worse off than black slaves in the south.

Since I've established you aren't honest about what you yourself said... I defy you to find where I suggested anything like that, but likely you're even less honest about what you claim other people say.

Calm down. It's just a misunderstanding due to a sentence that can be read more than one way, and the way you read it was totally different from how I meant it.

[USS Monitor]

Well it seems that is what the fuck you said.

He didn't own slaves while he was president and neither did anyone else [while Grant was president].

Better?

Yes, that is what I was going for.

I didn't think at all about the interpretation of that sentence that Deuxtete read into it, so it's quite possible they never thought at all about the interpretation that I intended. Hopefully we can both calm down and move on now that we've found the source of the confusion.

[Camicon]

Better?

Yes, that is what I was going for.

I didn't think at all about the interpretation of that sentence that Deuxtete read into it, so it's quite possible they never thought at all about the interpretation that I intended. Hopefully we can both calm down and move on now that we've found the source of the confusion.

Honestly, I don't understand why anyone would get so upset with a warship. I mean, one side is clearly at a disadvantage there.

[USS Monitor]

Yes, that is what I was going for.

I didn't think at all about the interpretation of that sentence that Deuxtete read into it, so it's quite possible they never thought at all about the interpretation that I intended. Hopefully we can both calm down and move on now that we've found the source of the confusion.

Honestly, I don't understand why anyone would get so upset with a warship. I mean, one side is clearly at a disadvantage there.

I'm a bit out of practice fighting, though. That is what happens when you take a 152 year hiatus -- you get rusty.

[Laerod]

Maybe if I was flying the first national flag, or the stainless or blood stained banners, I'd actually by representing the CSA. But that flag in particular, the one everyone mistakenly calls the confederate flag, is just the south.

As a people we are fighting to maintain the Heaven-ordained supremacy of the white man over the inferior or colored race; a white flag would thus be emblematical of our cause.

Thompson, incidentally, the designer of the "Stainless Banner".

If there was another flag to represent my culture region, all of it, that had the same regonizeability, I'd take it.

Literally the only unifying cultural connection between the various parts of the CSA/South was slavery. Why would you celebrate that?

But until then I'll use the flag that was never actually the CSA's.

Historical revisionism. The design you're using was specifically confederate.

Fort Sumpter was also on CSA land.

"Land" is a stupid term in this case. Ft. Sumter was on South Carolina territory and was decidedly federal property, as had been established by South Carolina courts years prior to the war when someone challenged this fact. The United States had more of a right to defend Ft. Sumter than it does to defend Guantanamo Bay. The CSA, as an illegal entity, never had any rights to Ft. Sumter.

[New Grestin]

Even after all this crap, I'm still shockingly ok with this.

Take it down from government buildings, let people fly it on private property.

Not really the nation-breaking issue people are making it out to be.

[USS Monitor]

Even after all this crap, I'm still shockingly ok with this.

Take it down from government buildings, let people fly it on private property.

Not really the nation-breaking issue people are making it out to be.

It was a nation-breaking issue back in the day, but times change.

Sometimes I wonder if I am the only one who grew up in the 19th century, or if there are people older than me who returned from the grave to haunt the internet and spread Confederate propaganda.

[San Eulogio]

Even after all this crap, I'm still shockingly ok with this.

Take it down from government buildings, let people fly it on private property.

Not really the nation-breaking issue people are making it out to be.

It was a nation-breaking issue back in the day, but times change.

Sometimes I wonder if I am the only one who grew up in the 19th century, or if there are people older than me who returned from the grave to haunt the internet and spread Confederate propaganda.

Haha, even if they would, the confederate flag is a secession flag: It's the equivalent to betraying your country. I don't think it should've ever become a symbol of patriotism in the US.

I know a lot of people who compare it to the Prince's Flag in the Netherlands or the flag of (EDIT: White!) South Africa, but the big difference is that those flags weren't used specifically for secession, thus betraying your the country you live in now (although the Prince's Flag was used by the nazis, it was still never used as a specific secession flag unless you consider the 80 years war a secession war in the Netherlands).

[New Grestin]

Even after all this crap, I'm still shockingly ok with this.

Take it down from government buildings, let people fly it on private property.

Not really the nation-breaking issue people are making it out to be.

It was a nation-breaking issue back in the day, but times change.

Sometimes I wonder if I am the only one who grew up in the 19th century, or if there are people older than me who returned from the grave to haunt the internet and spread Confederate propaganda.

No, it's fine. I'm an eternal hell-demon living inside a computer with the sole purpose of being annoyed on the internet.

You know they actually let colored folks into the same bathrooms as white folks nowadays? It's bloody disgraceful.

[Ifreann]

Even after all this crap, I'm still shockingly ok with this.

Take it down from government buildings, let people fly it on private property.

Not really the nation-breaking issue people are making it out to be.

I suspect that the only people making it out to be a nation-breaking issue are the sort who rather want the nation to be broken so that the south can rise again.

[Dyakovo]

Even after all this crap, I'm still shockingly ok with this.

Take it down from government buildings, let people fly it on private property.

Not really the nation-breaking issue people are making it out to be.

I suspect that the only people making it out to be a nation-breaking issue are the sort who rather want the nation to be broken so that the south can rise again.

Which is silly since the south never managed to rise before...

[Ifreann]

I suspect that the only people making it out to be a nation-breaking issue are the sort who rather want the nation to be broken so that the south can rise again.

Which is silly since the south never managed to rise before...

It's still rising if you get knocked right back down in the ensuing war.

[Dyakovo]

Which is silly since the south never managed to rise before...

It's still rising if you get knocked right back down in the ensuing war.

Fine. Be that way. Ruin my joke.