NATION

PASSWORD

[Q] Dispatch Notifications

Who needs it, who got it, who hands it out and why.
User avatar
The Unified Missourtama States
Diplomat
 
Posts: 515
Founded: Jul 30, 2019
Democratic Socialists

[Q] Dispatch Notifications

Postby The Unified Missourtama States » Wed Mar 17, 2021 6:32 pm

Often dispatches are used to get the attention of random nations, I've seen it used by regions to get the attentions of new nations, and by people within the cards community as a last attempt to get the attention of hard-to-catch sellers, essentially they are being used as alternatives to telegrams or message boards. Is there a line-of-legality on this or can it be used non-restrictively to ping anyone and everyone I want?

If there is no line-of-legality, could I then create world-wide or WA-wide message through a single or series of dispatches to bypass the telegram rate-limits? I already have the tools through the API data-dumps and the API telegram interface to get a list of all nations and quickly publish dispatches.

User avatar
Merni
Ambassador
 
Posts: 1473
Founded: May 03, 2016
Democratic Socialists

Postby Merni » Thu Mar 18, 2021 3:41 am

Would you not hit the dispatch character limit if you tried to mention all nations (and maybe also for all WA nations)? Edit: Oh, sorry, I didn't see "series of dispatches".

Anyway, if this is a question about the rules, I believe it should go in Moderation.
Last edited by Merni on Thu Mar 18, 2021 3:44 am, edited 1 time in total.
COVID19 still exists! | Donate your free time
The Labyrinth | TGW Warden | GA Committee List

OOC by default | Admins: Please allow blocking WA TGs!
E -8.0 S -3.18
Wrote 532 GA
meth
I've noticed that everybody that is for abortion has already been born. — Ronald Reagan
When the people are being beaten with a stick, they are not much happier if it is called 'the People’s Stick.' — Mikhail Bakunin (to Karl Marx)
You're supposed to be employing the arts of diplomacy, not the ruddy great thumping sledgehammers of diplomacy. — Ardchoille
The West won the world not by the superiority of its ideas or values or religion [...] but rather by its superiority in applying organised violence. — Samuel P. Huntington (even he said that!)

User avatar
The Unified Missourtama States
Diplomat
 
Posts: 515
Founded: Jul 30, 2019
Democratic Socialists

Postby The Unified Missourtama States » Thu Mar 18, 2021 6:24 am

Merni wrote:Would you not hit the dispatch character limit if you tried to mention all nations (and maybe also for all WA nations)? Edit: Oh, sorry, I didn't see "series of dispatches".

The dispatch limit is just over 100000 characters, and the current WA member list is just under 300000 characters, but of course tags have to be added, so about maybe 6 dispatches for a WA-wide? definitely quicker than the API telegram queue.
Anyway, if this is a question about the rules, I believe it should go in Moderation.

I thought this might be more appropriate for an admin given its novelty, but I've requested a move to the moderation forum.

User avatar
Comfed
Diplomat
 
Posts: 930
Founded: Apr 09, 2020
Psychotic Dictatorship

Postby Comfed » Thu Mar 18, 2021 6:30 am

As long as you’re not doing it repeatedly, and posting actual substance in the dispatches I see no reason to ban it. I can easily block you or turn off dispatch notifications.
Mall:
Best part about being a mod was engaging in normal player behavior and getting accused of abuse
"You think this is abuse? I'll SHOW you abuse."
Ever-Wandering Souls wrote:In the liberal justice system, raiding-based offenses are considered especially heinous. In The South Pacific, the dedicated defenders who investigate these vicious felonies are members of an elite squad known as the Council on Regional Security. These are their proscriptions. DUN DUN.

Numero Capitan wrote:I haven't bothered reading back but I can unequivocally say that I agree with everything HEM has said and Unibot is wrong

Put this in your sig if you passed biology and know that gender and sex are not the same thing.

User avatar
Frisbeeteria
Senior Game Moderator
 
Posts: 25300
Founded: Dec 16, 2003
Anarchy

Postby Frisbeeteria » Thu Mar 18, 2021 6:49 am

The Unified Missourtama States wrote: Is there a line-of-legality on this or can it be used non-restrictively to ping anyone and everyone I want?

Spamming via notification is still spamming. While it is technically possible to bypass everyone's telegram filters, it would be extremely rude to do so.

The Unified Missourtama States wrote:definitely quicker than the API telegram queue.

Those filters and rate limits were put in place to prevent unwanted communication. You're proposing a method to bypass admin-imposed limits. No. *** I'm calling it a rules violation. ***

Comfed wrote: I can easily block you or turn off dispatch notifications.

Tens of thousands of players would need to block them. Hell no.

Comfed wrote:I see no reason to ban it.

Last I checked, you're not someone who can make those kinds of calls.

User avatar
The Unified Missourtama States
Diplomat
 
Posts: 515
Founded: Jul 30, 2019
Democratic Socialists

Postby The Unified Missourtama States » Thu Mar 18, 2021 7:10 am

Frisbeeteria wrote:Those filters and rate limits were put in place to prevent unwanted communication. You're proposing a method to bypass admin-imposed limits. No. *** I'm calling it a rules violation. ***

Thanks for the ruling.

Also that [warn] text is scary, so to clarify, I have not used dispatches to bypass the rate-limits for messages.

*does a thank-you dance and gallops away*


User avatar
The Atlae Isles
Ambassador
 
Posts: 1025
Founded: Feb 07, 2016
Left-wing Utopia

Postby The Atlae Isles » Sun May 02, 2021 11:22 pm

When TUMS posted his initial question on March 17, I believe it was in reaction to my cards dispatch posted on March 16. It looks a bit different now than what it was on March 16, but I have been updating it somewhat regularly.

When this ruling was brought to my attention today, I was unsure of my project's legal status. I'm not alone in this sentiment, others in the cards Discord server are confused by what exactly it entails. When I interpret Fris's post, I'm under the impression that it would fall under the first category (rude, but legal). However, I'm not very sure about that. While I'm not personally bypassing any API rate-limits (I hope) in creating a dispatch, dispatches can still ping many people to send messages.

My dispatches were not the first to do this, however. Many regions have used these sorts of (mostly) auto-generated dispatches for years, primarily to encourage residents to endorse each other. Are they cheats for gaming the WA Endorsements stat through spam? Going back to cards, The North Pacific pings new nations who get cards in an effort to have them read their dispatch, a guide to trading.

I understand if this is to prevent "unwanted communication." Wouldn't the simplest solution, then, to disable notifications from dispatches (and RMB posts, which are another strategy that card traders use) altogether, since communication should take place between telegrams, which are subject to filters and rate limits? Personally, I think that would be a massive drop in quality of life, and possibly lead to an increase in spam considering that dispatches are a ping that a nation gets once per dispatch whereas telegrams for most nations push out the others in their inbox. In the end, some clarification as to what is legal and what is not legal would be great.
Author of Issues #752, #816, and #967
Field Marshal of the Eastern Pacific Sovereign Army
WA Ambassador: George Williamsen
"Gloria in Terra" | "The pronunciation of "Atlae" is /ætleɪ/. Don't you forget it."
Collecting TEP Cards! - Deputy Steward of TEAPOT

User avatar
Qvait
Envoy
 
Posts: 226
Founded: Mar 08, 2012
Left-wing Utopia

Postby Qvait » Sun May 02, 2021 11:50 pm

Yeah, are endotarting dispatches illegal now?
Hey, I'm Jay and I am a legislator and roleplayer in the South Pacific.

Former Minister of Foreign Affairs /// Member of the Council on Regional Security /// Former Minister of Regional Affairs

My History

User avatar
The Unified Missourtama States
Diplomat
 
Posts: 515
Founded: Jul 30, 2019
Democratic Socialists

Postby The Unified Missourtama States » Mon May 03, 2021 5:29 am

The Atlae Isles wrote:When TUMS posted his initial question on March 17, I believe it was in reaction to my cards dispatch posted on March 16.

No, I didn't know about your project and it had nothing to do with this post, as you are aware dispatch-pinging people is a long-standing practice, this is mostly of my own imagination for the practice of being a worldwide nuisance.
Qvait wrote:Yeah, are endotarting dispatches illegal now?

As a player I am okay with this, although, even then, it doesn't really mean they're illegal, just use [url] instead of [nation] and same effect as a link but with no ping.

I spent some time in The North Pacific, it was incredibly unpleasant to get dispatch notifications everyday, as well as telegrams, players definitely need to have more restrictions placed on the use of such mechanics.

User avatar
Merni
Ambassador
 
Posts: 1473
Founded: May 03, 2016
Democratic Socialists

Postby Merni » Mon May 03, 2021 5:39 am

The Unified Missourtama States wrote:just use [url] instead of [nation] and same effect as a link but with no ping.

The whole point of such dispatches is to notify nations who aren't endorsing the delegate (or whoever), especially new nations who may not know to do so. Of course it could be done with telegrams too, but as Atlae says
The Atlae Isles wrote:[using telegrams would] possibly lead to an increase in spam considering that dispatches are a ping that a nation gets once per dispatch whereas telegrams for most nations push out the others in their inbox. In the end, some clarification as to what is legal and what is not legal would be great.

(Hence also the long-standing request to have WA telegrams made into notices so they don't take up players' valuable inbox space)
Last edited by Merni on Mon May 03, 2021 5:42 am, edited 1 time in total.
COVID19 still exists! | Donate your free time
The Labyrinth | TGW Warden | GA Committee List

OOC by default | Admins: Please allow blocking WA TGs!
E -8.0 S -3.18
Wrote 532 GA
meth
I've noticed that everybody that is for abortion has already been born. — Ronald Reagan
When the people are being beaten with a stick, they are not much happier if it is called 'the People’s Stick.' — Mikhail Bakunin (to Karl Marx)
You're supposed to be employing the arts of diplomacy, not the ruddy great thumping sledgehammers of diplomacy. — Ardchoille
The West won the world not by the superiority of its ideas or values or religion [...] but rather by its superiority in applying organised violence. — Samuel P. Huntington (even he said that!)

User avatar
The Unified Missourtama States
Diplomat
 
Posts: 515
Founded: Jul 30, 2019
Democratic Socialists

Postby The Unified Missourtama States » Mon May 03, 2021 8:55 am

Merni wrote:
The Unified Missourtama States wrote:just use [url] instead of [nation] and same effect as a link but with no ping.

The whole point of such dispatches is to notify nations who aren't endorsing the delegate (or whoever), especially new nations who may not know to do so. Of course it could be done with telegrams too, but as Atlae says
The Atlae Isles wrote:[using telegrams would] possibly lead to an increase in spam considering that dispatches are a ping that a nation gets once per dispatch whereas telegrams for most nations push out the others in their inbox.

That is what "Welcome" telegrams are for.

User avatar
Merni
Ambassador
 
Posts: 1473
Founded: May 03, 2016
Democratic Socialists

Postby Merni » Mon May 03, 2021 10:37 am

The Unified Missourtama States wrote:
Merni wrote:The whole point of such dispatches is to notify nations who aren't endorsing the delegate (or whoever), especially new nations who may not know to do so. Of course it could be done with telegrams too, but as Atlae says

That is what "Welcome" telegrams are for.

Especially for feeders, the welcome telegrams usually get buried under many recruitment telegrams.
COVID19 still exists! | Donate your free time
The Labyrinth | TGW Warden | GA Committee List

OOC by default | Admins: Please allow blocking WA TGs!
E -8.0 S -3.18
Wrote 532 GA
meth
I've noticed that everybody that is for abortion has already been born. — Ronald Reagan
When the people are being beaten with a stick, they are not much happier if it is called 'the People’s Stick.' — Mikhail Bakunin (to Karl Marx)
You're supposed to be employing the arts of diplomacy, not the ruddy great thumping sledgehammers of diplomacy. — Ardchoille
The West won the world not by the superiority of its ideas or values or religion [...] but rather by its superiority in applying organised violence. — Samuel P. Huntington (even he said that!)

User avatar
Alfonzo
Spokesperson
 
Posts: 151
Founded: Dec 27, 2020
Left-Leaning College State

Postby Alfonzo » Tue May 04, 2021 1:47 pm

Merni wrote:
The Unified Missourtama States wrote:That is what "Welcome" telegrams are for.

Especially for feeders, the welcome telegrams usually get buried under many recruitment telegrams.

good. more numbers for UCRs >:)
✯ ✯ ✯ In War, Victory. In Peace, Vigilance. In Death, Sacrifice: TGW✯ ✯ ✯
Tlatoani/Founder of Lake Obsidian | Native of The Embassy | Member of the Kyosson Family in The Rejected Realms
Made ya look! I only follow currently trending political opinions #sheeplife #ridebandwagon B)

User avatar
East Malaysia
Bureaucrat
 
Posts: 41
Founded: May 26, 2004
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby East Malaysia » Sat May 08, 2021 8:26 pm

Qvait wrote:Yeah, are endotarting dispatches illegal now?


That's what I was wondering also since it has been such a well known common practice for years at this point. I hope some clarification can be provided on it.
The East Pacific
Current: Vizier, FA & Cabinet Advisor
Former: Everything but the Kitchen Sink

Em: Father Hobbes will be a good corrup...mentor
Hobbes: win^


Advertisement

Remove ads

Return to Moderation

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Agalaesia, Alfonzo, Artevenia, Crowheim, Deacarsia, Fartsniffage, Goraria, Impaled Nazarene, Narwhals Are Unicorns, Sanjurika, The Blaatschapen, The Reformed American Republic, Tretrid, Valentine Z

Advertisement

Remove ads