[Q] Dispatch Notifications

[The Unified Missourtama States]

Often dispatches are used to get the attention of random nations, I've seen it used by regions to get the attentions of new nations, and by people within the cards community as a last attempt to get the attention of hard-to-catch sellers, essentially they are being used as alternatives to telegrams or message boards. Is there a line-of-legality on this or can it be used non-restrictively to ping anyone and everyone I want?

If there is no line-of-legality, could I then create world-wide or WA-wide message through a single or series of dispatches to bypass the telegram rate-limits? I already have the tools through the API data-dumps and the API telegram interface to get a list of all nations and quickly publish dispatches.

[Merni]

Would you not hit the dispatch character limit if you tried to mention all nations (and maybe also for all WA nations)? Edit: Oh, sorry, I didn't see "series of dispatches".

Anyway, if this is a question about the rules, I believe it should go in Moderation.

[The Unified Missourtama States]

Would you not hit the dispatch character limit if you tried to mention all nations (and maybe also for all WA nations)? Edit: Oh, sorry, I didn't see "series of dispatches".

The dispatch limit is just over 100000 characters, and the current WA member list is just under 300000 characters, but of course tags have to be added, so about maybe 6 dispatches for a WA-wide? definitely quicker than the API telegram queue.

Anyway, if this is a question about the rules, I believe it should go in Moderation.

I thought this might be more appropriate for an admin given its novelty, but I've requested a move to the moderation forum.

[Comfed]

As long as you’re not doing it repeatedly, and posting actual substance in the dispatches I see no reason to ban it. I can easily block you or turn off dispatch notifications.

[Frisbeeteria]

Is there a line-of-legality on this or can it be used non-restrictively to ping anyone and everyone I want?

Spamming via notification is still spamming. While it is technically possible to bypass everyone's telegram filters, it would be extremely rude to do so.

definitely quicker than the API telegram queue.

Those filters and rate limits were put in place to prevent unwanted communication. You're proposing a method to bypass admin-imposed limits. No. *** I'm calling it a rules violation. ***

I can easily block you or turn off dispatch notifications.

Tens of thousands of players would need to block them. Hell no.

I see no reason to ban it.

Last I checked, you're not someone who can make those kinds of calls.

[The Unified Missourtama States]

Those filters and rate limits were put in place to prevent unwanted communication. You're proposing a method to bypass admin-imposed limits. No. *** I'm calling it a rules violation. ***

Thanks for the ruling.

Also that [warn] text is scary, so to clarify, I have not used dispatches to bypass the rate-limits for messages.

*does a thank-you dance and gallops away*

[Frisbeeteria]

Also that [warn] text is scary,

You weren't warned. I just wanted the ruling to stand out.

[The Atlae Isles]

When TUMS posted his initial question on March 17, I believe it was in reaction to my cards dispatch posted on March 16. It looks a bit different now than what it was on March 16, but I have been updating it somewhat regularly.

When this ruling was brought to my attention today, I was unsure of my project's legal status. I'm not alone in this sentiment, others in the cards Discord server are confused by what exactly it entails. When I interpret Fris's post, I'm under the impression that it would fall under the first category (rude, but legal). However, I'm not very sure about that. While I'm not personally bypassing any API rate-limits (I hope) in creating a dispatch, dispatches can still ping many people to send messages.

My dispatches were not the first to do this, however. Many regions have used these sorts of (mostly) auto-generated dispatches for years, primarily to encourage residents to endorse each other. Are they cheats for gaming the WA Endorsements stat through spam? Going back to cards, The North Pacific pings new nations who get cards in an effort to have them read their dispatch, a guide to trading.

I understand if this is to prevent "unwanted communication." Wouldn't the simplest solution, then, to disable notifications from dispatches (and RMB posts, which are another strategy that card traders use) altogether, since communication should take place between telegrams, which are subject to filters and rate limits? Personally, I think that would be a massive drop in quality of life, and possibly lead to an increase in spam considering that dispatches are a ping that a nation gets once per dispatch whereas telegrams for most nations push out the others in their inbox. In the end, some clarification as to what is legal and what is not legal would be great.

[Qvait]

Yeah, are endotarting dispatches illegal now?

[The Unified Missourtama States]

When TUMS posted his initial question on March 17, I believe it was in reaction to my cards dispatch posted on March 16.

No, I didn't know about your project and it had nothing to do with this post, as you are aware dispatch-pinging people is a long-standing practice, this is mostly of my own imagination for the practice of being a worldwide nuisance.

Yeah, are endotarting dispatches illegal now?

As a player I am okay with this, although, even then, it doesn't really mean they're illegal, just use [url] instead of [nation] and same effect as a link but with no ping.

I spent some time in The North Pacific, it was incredibly unpleasant to get dispatch notifications everyday, as well as telegrams, players definitely need to have more restrictions placed on the use of such mechanics.

[Merni]

just use [url] instead of [nation] and same effect as a link but with no ping.

The whole point of such dispatches is to notify nations who aren't endorsing the delegate (or whoever), especially new nations who may not know to do so. Of course it could be done with telegrams too, but as Atlae says

[using telegrams would] possibly lead to an increase in spam considering that dispatches are a ping that a nation gets once per dispatch whereas telegrams for most nations push out the others in their inbox. In the end, some clarification as to what is legal and what is not legal would be great.

(Hence also the long-standing request to have WA telegrams made into notices so they don't take up players' valuable inbox space)

[The Unified Missourtama States]

just use [url] instead of [nation] and same effect as a link but with no ping.

The whole point of such dispatches is to notify nations who aren't endorsing the delegate (or whoever), especially new nations who may not know to do so. Of course it could be done with telegrams too, but as Atlae says

[using telegrams would] possibly lead to an increase in spam considering that dispatches are a ping that a nation gets once per dispatch whereas telegrams for most nations push out the others in their inbox.

That is what "Welcome" telegrams are for.

[Merni]

The whole point of such dispatches is to notify nations who aren't endorsing the delegate (or whoever), especially new nations who may not know to do so. Of course it could be done with telegrams too, but as Atlae says

That is what "Welcome" telegrams are for.

Especially for feeders, the welcome telegrams usually get buried under many recruitment telegrams.

[Alfonzo]

That is what "Welcome" telegrams are for.

Especially for feeders, the welcome telegrams usually get buried under many recruitment telegrams.

good. more numbers for UCRs >:)

[East Malaysia]

Yeah, are endotarting dispatches illegal now?

That's what I was wondering also since it has been such a well known common practice for years at this point. I hope some clarification can be provided on it.

[Bormiar]

Yeah, are endotarting dispatches illegal now?

That's what I was wondering also since it has been such a well known common practice for years at this point. I hope some clarification can be provided on it.

Any word on this?

My interpretation of Fris' ruling is that it's illegal if it's a) in order to bypass the rate limits of telegrams, such as in campaigning or regional recruitment; or b) otherwise obvious spam (e.g. "Look at my dispatch!"). However, in the last month, players have been questioning in this thread whether programs which have been mainstream and untouched by moderation for years are still legal. I'm bumping this thread in hopes of a response.

I believe OP phrased his question in a harsh way because he doesn't like being mentioned, but in my experience on this site all large-scale mentions I've ever seen have been for constructive, non-spam purposes. GCR (and certain UCR) outreach— which requires large-scale communication— is built on dispatch pinging. Atlae already listed several examples:

• The long-standing WADP of TNP which is vital to maintaining their high endorsement count and in many ways the foundation of TNP's revolutionary (in my opinion) contributions to cards— which guided the fledging community.
• The WADP of The East Pacific
• The Southern World Assembly Initiative (TSP)
• The Europeian Endotarting Awards
• The Unicorn Awards
• TWP's "The Masses"

Similarly, there's Balder's WA Expedition, 10KI's WASP Awards, and The North Pacific Handbook. Outside of soliciting endorsements, players create like the Greenness index or the Literary Awards in order to provide valuable information to players. TRR government members are concerned that our and others' programs — which have become pedestrian and necessary to the standard flow of NS — are no longer allowed.

I've never seen anyone except TUMS complain about these dispatch notifications. Players who do care have many options which don't collapse GCR outreach:

• Simply asking the government or player if they could opt-out of their program. Not honoring such a request would undoubtably by spam.
• Blocking the nation in telegram settings, thereby preventing any mentions from them.
• Turning off mentions.

Given it's been a month without response, I'm bumping in hopes of obtaining clarification. Does Fris' ruling apply solely to dispatches which seem spammy or are created to avoid telegram rate limits (i.e. recruitment and WA campaigning)?

[Sedgistan]

Does Fris' ruling apply solely to dispatches which seem spammy or are created to avoid telegram rate limits (i.e. recruitment and WA campaigning)?

That's how I'd say it should be interpreted. Endotarting dispatches as a concept* are not prohibited.

*Careful wording, because if you posted 20 of them tagging the same nations, obviously that would be considered spam.

[Bormiar]

Does Fris' ruling apply solely to dispatches which seem spammy or are created to avoid telegram rate limits (i.e. recruitment and WA campaigning)?

That's how I'd say it should be interpreted. Endotarting dispatches as a concept* are not prohibited.

*Careful wording, because if you posted 20 of them tagging the same nations, obviously that would be considered spam.

Thanks!

[Valentine Z]

Will it become a little too much of a problem if there are too many nations / players who started using the "I see you are the owner of the cards I wanted, I am going to tag you" dispatches? Granted, maybe I will get a notice 1-5 times per player/region, that is fine, but if there are going to be way too many players doing this in an attempt to get some attention (instead of either looking at the list and TG those who potentially might sell it to you), it is going to get out of control, in my personal opinion.

EDIT: Of course, I am aware that I can just turn off the notifications that I got tagged in someone's dispatch, but I didn't turn it off to get notices on the dispatches that actually warranted my attention.

[Sedgistan]

Will it become a little too much of a problem if there are too many nations / players who started using the "I see you are the owner of the cards I wanted, I am going to tag you" dispatches?

Potentially, and if things reach that stage then we may have to considered restricting it.

[Flanderlion]

When I first started using them there was no way of blocking them. Then others saw and spammed it in other regions hence the ability to block was added. TGs are far more effective so I'd expect cards players to eventually mostly use TGs in time.