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Turkish Foreign Minister claims Greek islands are Turkish

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Baltenstein
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Turkish Foreign Minister claims Greek islands are Turkish

Postby Baltenstein » Thu Dec 01, 2016 5:15 pm

Unfortunately, the never-ending stream of worrying news from Turkey continues. Stepping in line with president Erdogan's latest remarks that the Lausanne treaty consisted of "unfair conditions that were imposed upon Turkey" that "are not going to last forever" (Seen here), Turkish foreign minister Cavusoglu has decided to up the ante and make territorial demands on the Greek Islands of Imia:

Turkey’s Foreign Minister Mevlut Cavusoglu on Wednesday referred to the eastern Aegean Imia islets as “Turkish soil.”

Cavusoglu was responding in writing to a question tabled by a Turkish MP regarding the status of islands and islets in the Aegean.

“As long as the AKP is in power there will be no change in the legal and de facto status of islands in the Aegean,” noted Cavusoglu in his statement.

Cavusoglu’s comments followed comments made by the leader of the Turkish Republican People's Party (CHP) Kemal Kilicdaroglu in which he accused Greece of occupying 18 islands in the Aegean.

Reacting to Cavusoglu's statement, the Greek foreign ministry issued its own statement on Thursday.

"Greece’s sovereignty over its islands in the Aegean, including Imia, is undisputable and established by international law,” the ministry said, adding that "Irresponsible references to the contrary are provocative," given that the legal status of Aegean islands and islets was determined by a series of international agreements signed last century.

In 1996, Greece and Turkey came close to war over the uninhabited outcrop.


http://www.ekathimerini.com/214212/arti ... k-reaction

State of Emergency, constant sabre-rattling against the West, increasing repression of all internal opposition, establishment of a strong-man cult of personality, glorification of the imperial past, now open territorial demands against smaller neighbor countries: the Erdogan government has started to mimic the antiques of Nazi Germany so closely that I'm really starting to wonder if Erdogan has a copy of "Mein Kampf" somewhere on his bedside table.

Greek PM Alexis Tsipras meanwhile has more important things to do, like worshipping Fidel Castro's corpse in Havana and holding great speeches about the evils of Capitalism or whatever.

It is my personal opinion that - against an increasingly hostile and revanchist Turkey - the EU must cooperate more closely on matters of border security and immigration management and look for ways that reduce the dependency on Erdogan's Turkey on that particular matter in any way possible. The integrity of EU memberstates borders must be guaranteed in the Aegean as much as in the Baltics/Eastern Europe or elsewhere, especially with the possible prospect that a Trump presidency will considerably reduce American hard power presence in Europe.

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Last edited by Baltenstein on Thu Dec 01, 2016 5:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Dwalin
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Postby Dwalin » Thu Dec 01, 2016 5:26 pm

I'm still amazed that even though Sultan Erdogan and his loyal followers continue and even increase making such remarks, the EU is still holding talks with them regarding their entry into the EU.
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Major-Tom
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Postby Major-Tom » Thu Dec 01, 2016 5:26 pm

How is anyone ok with Turkey being in NATO, and soon, maybe the EU?

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Postby Uxupox » Thu Dec 01, 2016 5:27 pm

Ottoman resurgence when?
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Bakery Hill
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Postby Bakery Hill » Thu Dec 01, 2016 5:28 pm

This isn't new stuff though. They've been disputed since after WW1.
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Farnhamia
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Postby Farnhamia » Thu Dec 01, 2016 5:29 pm

Major-Tom wrote:How is anyone ok with Turkey being in NATO, and soon, maybe the EU?

Turkey's been part of NATO since 1952. Erdoğan wasn't born until 1954.
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SUNTHREIT
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Postby SUNTHREIT » Thu Dec 01, 2016 5:29 pm

They seem to like complaining about their territorial claims.
We should give them Smyrna, Kurdistan, Western Armenia and Constantinople to complain about too.
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Dwalin
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Postby Dwalin » Thu Dec 01, 2016 5:30 pm

Major-Tom wrote:How is anyone ok with Turkey being in NATO, and soon, maybe the EU?


I'm wondering the very same thing. luckily the government of my country has voiced that it doesn't want to continue talks with Turkey until its government starts respecting international law, national law and human rights. I hope that the EU will listen and agree to stop talks regarding Turkey entering the EU.
Last edited by Dwalin on Thu Dec 01, 2016 5:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Major-Tom
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Postby Major-Tom » Thu Dec 01, 2016 5:30 pm

Farnhamia wrote:
Major-Tom wrote:How is anyone ok with Turkey being in NATO, and soon, maybe the EU?

Turkey's been part of NATO since 1952. Erdoğan wasn't born until 1954.


Yeah, I know. My question is, why are we still letting them stay in NATO? They are a net detriment to European and American interests. Simple as that, a binding vote to kick Turkey out of NATO would be wise.

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The East Marches
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Postby The East Marches » Thu Dec 01, 2016 5:31 pm

I sincerely hope the Europeans realize that Erdogan like most bullies, respects only force.
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Postby Uxupox » Thu Dec 01, 2016 5:31 pm

The East Marches wrote:I sincerely hope the Europeans realize that Erdogan like most bullies, respects only force.


They will never learn. Like the little child that doesn't fight back they will give their lunch money to the bully.
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The East Marches
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Postby The East Marches » Thu Dec 01, 2016 5:31 pm

Major-Tom wrote:
Farnhamia wrote:Turkey's been part of NATO since 1952. Erdoğan wasn't born until 1954.


Yeah, I know. My question is, why are we still letting them stay in NATO? They are a net detriment to European and American interests. Simple as that, a binding vote to kick Turkey out of NATO would be wise.


2nd largest army in NATO. They got lots of meat for the grinder. It's that simple.
Conserative Morality wrote:Move to a real state bud instead of a third-world country that inexplicably votes in American elections.


Novus America wrote:But yes, I would say the mere existence of Illinois proves this is hell. Chicago the 9th circle.

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The East Marches
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Postby The East Marches » Thu Dec 01, 2016 5:32 pm

Uxupox wrote:
The East Marches wrote:I sincerely hope the Europeans realize that Erdogan like most bullies, respects only force.


They will never learn. Like the little child that doesn't fight back they will give their lunch money to the bully.


I do agree this is the likely outcome.
Conserative Morality wrote:Move to a real state bud instead of a third-world country that inexplicably votes in American elections.


Novus America wrote:But yes, I would say the mere existence of Illinois proves this is hell. Chicago the 9th circle.

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New Werpland
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Postby New Werpland » Thu Dec 01, 2016 5:36 pm

This is totally unprecedented! Also you've completely overlooked the interesting bit, this is coming from the opposition not Erdogan. Indeed Kilicdaroglu started it, as your source states. This is part of his continuing regrettable tactic of trying to woo nationalists.
Major-Tom wrote:How is anyone ok with Turkey being in NATO, and soon, maybe the EU?

Why do you pretend that Turkey still might enter the EU? I feel as if this is some kind of right wing conspiracy to make the EU look worse by pretending that it was cosmopolitan enough to actually consider letting Turkey in.
Last edited by New Werpland on Thu Dec 01, 2016 5:37 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Baltenstein
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Postby Baltenstein » Thu Dec 01, 2016 5:37 pm

Bakery Hill wrote:This isn't new stuff though. They've been disputed since after WW1.


What is new, however, is the Turkish government openly commiting "sacrilege" against the Treaty of Lausanne, which in the past has been considered to be a heroic achievement of Kemal Atatürk, replacing the much worse and harsher Treaty of Sevrés that had been imposed on Turkey after losing WW1.
O'er the hills and o'er the main.
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King George commands and we obey.
Over the hills and far away.


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Herargon
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Postby Herargon » Thu Dec 01, 2016 5:39 pm

Old news since 1974, move on people.
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New Werpland
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Postby New Werpland » Thu Dec 01, 2016 5:39 pm

Major-Tom wrote:
Farnhamia wrote:Turkey's been part of NATO since 1952. Erdoğan wasn't born until 1954.


Yeah, I know. My question is, why are we still letting them stay in NATO? They are a net detriment to European and American interests. Simple as that, a binding vote to kick Turkey out of NATO would be wise.

It wouldn't be wise because kicking them out of NATO means Turkey actually becoming a real threat to Europe.

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Baltenstein
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Postby Baltenstein » Thu Dec 01, 2016 5:40 pm

This is totally unprecedented! Also you've completely overlooked the interesting bit, this is coming from the opposition not Erdogan. Indeed Kilicdaroglu started it, this is part of his continuing regrettable tactic of trying to woo nationalists.


That the Turkish parties are trying to enter a dickwaving contest over who will make the bigger claims on neighbor countries territories is repulsive on itself.

However, what Kilicdaroglu says matters little because it is the AKP that is holding more and more absolute power in Turkey. Even the MHP have become their little toadies lately.
O'er the hills and o'er the main.
Through Flanders, Portugal and Spain.
King George commands and we obey.
Over the hills and far away.


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Herargon
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Postby Herargon » Thu Dec 01, 2016 5:43 pm

Dwalin wrote:I'm still amazed that even though Sultan Erdogan and his loyal followers continue and even increase making such remarks, the EU is still holding talks with them regarding their entry into the EU.


The EU has stopped those talks since three days ago, IIRC. They realised that they could no longer pretend to give Turkey some bait by holding talks for EU membership, and what was even more important: they illegally annexed and ethnically cleansed half of Cyprus, a member state of the EU nowadays.

Uxupox wrote:
The East Marches wrote:I sincerely hope the Europeans realize that Erdogan like most bullies, respects only force.


They will never learn. Like the little child that doesn't fight back they will give their lunch money to the bully.


Mate, this isn't Fox News. We're talking about politics in practicality...
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Against: intolerance, radicalism, strong discrimination, populism, fascism, nazism, communism, totalitarianism, authoritarianism, absolutarianism, fundamentalism, strong religious expression, strong nationalism, police states

If you like philosophy, then here you can see what your own philosophical alignements are.

Ifreann wrote:That would certainly save the local regiment of American troops the trouble of plugging your head in ye olde shittere.
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Postby Socialist Nordia » Thu Dec 01, 2016 5:45 pm

If only that coup wouldn't have been a failure, we wouldn't have to deal with this idiocy. I hate Erdogan and his government.
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Postby Uxupox » Thu Dec 01, 2016 5:47 pm

Herargon wrote:
Dwalin wrote:I'm still amazed that even though Sultan Erdogan and his loyal followers continue and even increase making such remarks, the EU is still holding talks with them regarding their entry into the EU.


The EU has stopped those talks since three days ago, IIRC. They realised that they could no longer pretend to give Turkey some bait by holding talks for EU membership, and what was even more important: they illegally annexed and ethnically cleansed half of Cyprus, a member state of the EU nowadays.

Uxupox wrote:
They will never learn. Like the little child that doesn't fight back they will give their lunch money to the bully.


Mate, this isn't Fox News. We're talking about politics in practicality...


Are you sure?
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Postby Jochizyd Republic » Thu Dec 01, 2016 5:48 pm

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Postby Herargon » Thu Dec 01, 2016 5:49 pm

Major-Tom wrote:How is anyone ok with Turkey being in NATO, and soon, maybe the EU?


They've got one of the world's largest armies, and are extremely strategically located, on the border between Europe and Afrasia. They comtrol the Bosphorus strait, and that places them in a very decent position to block Russia from benefiting from its warm water harbours in Azov and the Crimea.
Plus, the NATO's status makes the alliance able to be mostly military, rather than politically focused.
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Against: intolerance, radicalism, strong discrimination, populism, fascism, nazism, communism, totalitarianism, authoritarianism, absolutarianism, fundamentalism, strong religious expression, strong nationalism, police states

If you like philosophy, then here you can see what your own philosophical alignements are.

Ifreann wrote:That would certainly save the local regiment of American troops the trouble of plugging your head in ye olde shittere.
How scifi alliances actually work.

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Postby Constantinopolis » Thu Dec 01, 2016 5:56 pm

Major-Tom wrote:
Farnhamia wrote:Turkey's been part of NATO since 1952. Erdoğan wasn't born until 1954.

Yeah, I know. My question is, why are we still letting them stay in NATO? They are a net detriment to European and American interests. Simple as that, a binding vote to kick Turkey out of NATO would be wise.

Unfortunately, Turkey can do almost anything it wants and will never be kicked out of NATO. Why, you ask? Two reasons:

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Postby United States of Natan » Thu Dec 01, 2016 5:57 pm

Well, this world is truly going down the drain. It's only a matter of time before WWIII begins.
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