NATION

PASSWORD

How to Teach?

For discussion and debate about anything. (Not a roleplay related forum; out-of-character commentary only.)
User avatar
Forsher
Postmaster of the Fleet
 
Posts: 22041
Founded: Jan 30, 2012
New York Times Democracy

How to Teach?

Postby Forsher » Mon Aug 25, 2014 3:47 am

As some people may have noticed there was briefly a bloggish thread about US high schools recently, which included the line "Less homework/busy work, and more lecture." This got me thinking, how should we actually approach the question of teaching pupils and, to an extent, students (they're not actually the same thing).

To my mind, lectures (in the sense of teachers or lecturers talking at people are not particularly useful). Universities will tell you that it's all about high-speed processing to pick up what's actually worth copying down. I find that this generally means that no-one has time to actually think about what is going until later. This is particularly noticeable for disciplines like history which can often be quite densely packed with information to support the primary concepts or themes that are the real meat of what is happening. This lecture-model, to my mind, can be improved by taking some elements of the flipped classroom approach whereby the learner first encounters the material and then turns up to the class. Naturally this allows the learner to actually process the information. Even so, I don't think that this is a particularly good approach.

I think that the best way of going about teaching (in terms of actual learning rather than getting through a lot of material in a short time frame) is to move through information reasonably quickly but with time to reflect on this (even if this manifests itself as off-topic discussion). In subjects like maths this typically means you go through the concept and then work through an example and then try it out for a few times. For things like history or classics this typically involves writing down quite a lot from slides and then having an irrelevant conversation (well, it worked for me). If you can find room for some sort of discussion that extends on the material that's great too.

Naturally, we can't divorce this too much from assessment. I don't think pupils learn much at all when everything is geared specifically at some sort of assessment process. The impression that I got from things like English is that people would come up with often very detailed plans or essays and then try to regurgitate them in the exams. Additionally, it felt like mindlessly repeating whatever was discussed in the classroom. I feel that assessment should be part of the learning process and reinforce what has been taught by putting the pupil or the student in a position to engage independently with what they've been doing.

So, what say ye NSG? Should we make better use of things I haven't really mentioned here like technology, flipped classrooms, tactile learning, streaming and a whole host of other things? Am I right in thinking that a talk at the learners approach isn't so useful?
That it Could be What it Is, Is What it Is

Stop making shit up, though. Links, or it's a God-damn lie and you know it.

The normie life is heteronormie

We won't know until 2053 when it'll be really obvious what he should've done. [...] We have no option but to guess.

User avatar
The Grim Reaper
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 10526
Founded: Oct 08, 2011
Ex-Nation

Postby The Grim Reaper » Mon Aug 25, 2014 5:41 am

This lecture-model, to my mind, can be improved by taking some elements of the flipped classroom approach whereby the learner first encounters the material and then turns up to the class. Naturally this allows the learner to actually process the information. Even so, I don't think that this is a particularly good approach.


It's late, so I can't really say much - but, being a first year student, I had a couple of subjects where the readings were expected to be completed prior to attending lectures. Obviously, that one's a bit hard to observe, but word on the street was that most of my peers preferred it when the lectures were written with the assumption that students had already completely preliminary reading.
If I can't play bass, I don't want to be part of your revolution.
Melbourne, Australia

A & Ω

Is "not a blood diamond" a high enough bar for a wedding ring? Artificial gemstones are better-looking, more ethical, and made out of PURE SCIENCE™.

User avatar
Arain
Spokesperson
 
Posts: 167
Founded: Mar 06, 2014
Ex-Nation

Postby Arain » Mon Aug 25, 2014 6:03 am

Students don't have a common learning style, some students can learn well from lectures while others don't and prefer other methods like activities and something more exciting. Obviously teachers can't do that they have only one generic teaching style which students must adapt to. For me for example I require one to one, face to face learning if it's something like math and classes which don't pique my interest during class time so I go to my teachers during break or after/before school and also have tutors for certain subjects so I keep up. There's nothing wrong with me I just have a different way of learning in the first Grade the school thought I was Dyslexic for God's sake I had to go to a doctor who said there was nothing wrong with me I just don't focus in class because I have a huge imagination and so my mind is elsewhere.

User avatar
CTALNH
Powerbroker
 
Posts: 9596
Founded: Jul 18, 2010
Ex-Nation

Postby CTALNH » Mon Aug 25, 2014 6:53 am

Stop teaching and start to let the kids learn actual fucking stuff and become real people?
"This guy is a State socialist, which doesn't so much mean mass murder and totalitarianism as it means trying to have a strong state to lead the way out of poverty and towards a bright future. Strict state control of the economy is necessary to make the great leap forward into that brighter future, and all elements of society must be sure to contribute or else."
Economic Left/Right: -9.25
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: 3.64
Lawful Neutral/Lawful Evil half and half.
Authoritarian Extreme Leftist because fuck pre-existing Ideologies.
"Epicus Doomicus Metallicus"
Radical Anti-Radical Feminist Feminist
S.W.I.F: Sex Worker Inclusionary Feminist.
T.I.F: Trans Inclusionary Feminist

User avatar
Katganistan
Senior Game Moderator
 
Posts: 37004
Founded: Antiquity
Scandinavian Liberal Paradise

Postby Katganistan » Mon Aug 25, 2014 7:35 am

CTALNH wrote:Stop teaching and start to let the kids learn actual fucking stuff and become real people?


How?

User avatar
Murkwood
Powerbroker
 
Posts: 7806
Founded: Apr 05, 2014
Ex-Nation

Postby Murkwood » Mon Aug 25, 2014 7:38 am

CTALNH wrote:Stop teaching and start to let the kids learn actual fucking stuff and become real people?

Sounds like someone didn't have a good time at Grade School...
Degenerate Heart of HetRio wrote:Murkwood, I'm surprised you're not an anti-Semite and don't mind most LGBT rights because boy, aren't you a constellation of the worst opinions to have about everything? o_o

Benuty wrote:I suppose Ken Ham, and the league of Republican-Neocolonialist-Zionist Catholics will not be pleased.

Soldati senza confini wrote:Did I just try to rationalize Murkwood's logic? Please shoot me.

Catholicism has the fullness of the splendor of truth: The Bible and the Church Fathers agree!

User avatar
Krjder
Negotiator
 
Posts: 5870
Founded: Aug 15, 2012
Ex-Nation

Postby Krjder » Mon Aug 25, 2014 7:40 am

As a Company Sergeant in the cadets, the way I teach is:
Tell them what you are teaching
Tell them why they are being taught this
Tell them the objective
Demonstrate
Demonstrate in detail
Get the cadets it carry it out
Individual assessment, get them to do it on their own
Carry it out as a group
Conclude.
Be polite, write diplomatically; even in a declaration of war one observes the rules of politeness.
-Otto Von Bismarck
Embassy App


Nation Type: Direct Democratic Federal Monarchy
Capital: Aastejk
Population: 480,670,500
Current Leadership:
-Emperor Anton IV
-Realm Chancellor Atsūjiri Gyēzashiri
Military:
-1,560,000 Active
-4,750,000 Reserves
Dutch teen, Roman Catholic, socially conservative, economically libertarian. Enjoys; hunting, classical & march music, history and debating.

User avatar
CTALNH
Powerbroker
 
Posts: 9596
Founded: Jul 18, 2010
Ex-Nation

Postby CTALNH » Mon Aug 25, 2014 7:43 am

Katganistan wrote:
CTALNH wrote:Stop teaching and start to let the kids learn actual fucking stuff and become real people?


How?

Ancient greek way of education.

Though we are gonna need a butt load of philosophers willing to teach each and everyone personally.
"This guy is a State socialist, which doesn't so much mean mass murder and totalitarianism as it means trying to have a strong state to lead the way out of poverty and towards a bright future. Strict state control of the economy is necessary to make the great leap forward into that brighter future, and all elements of society must be sure to contribute or else."
Economic Left/Right: -9.25
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: 3.64
Lawful Neutral/Lawful Evil half and half.
Authoritarian Extreme Leftist because fuck pre-existing Ideologies.
"Epicus Doomicus Metallicus"
Radical Anti-Radical Feminist Feminist
S.W.I.F: Sex Worker Inclusionary Feminist.
T.I.F: Trans Inclusionary Feminist

User avatar
Proskoya
Diplomat
 
Posts: 518
Founded: Jul 16, 2014
Ex-Nation

Postby Proskoya » Mon Aug 25, 2014 7:52 am

Krjder wrote:As a Company Sergeant in the cadets, the way I teach is:
Tell them what you are teaching
Tell them why they are being taught this
Tell them the objective
Demonstrate
Demonstrate in detail
Get the cadets it carry it out
Individual assessment, get them to do it on their own
Carry it out as a group
Conclude.

^This.

A lot of people can learn from doing more so than they can listening. For example, in a classroom setting, if you're learning the history of a certain war and you want to inform your students about a battle, would you rather sit back and lecture to them all of what happened or formulate a scenario with little army men where the students had to think about the decisions that the men were faced with that day?
For: Capitalism, Libertarianism, Neutrality, Nuclear Deterrents, Logic, Military, Equality of Opportunity
Against: Interventionism, Socialism, Gun Control, Arguments based on "Feelings"

"The problem in defense is how far you can go without destroying from within what you are trying to defend from without." - Dwight D. Eisenhower

User avatar
Alexanda
Ambassador
 
Posts: 1640
Founded: May 10, 2014
Ex-Nation

Postby Alexanda » Mon Aug 25, 2014 7:56 am

1. Introduce the topic
2. Explain why the topic is important
3. Have the students explain why the topic is important
4. Explain the topic
5. Have the students explain the topic
I do not use N.S Tracker.
PRO: Conservative Party, Christianity, Thatcherism, Margaret Thatcher, Privatisation, Capitalism, Monarchy, Democracy, British Commonwealth
ANTI: Socialism, Communism, Homosexual Marriage, Homophobia, E.U dominance of the U.K, State-owned industries, Terrorism
My condolences to those who were killed in the recent terror attacks, and may God help us defeat the twisted ideology which prompted such evil!

User avatar
Jean Valjean
Attaché
 
Posts: 77
Founded: Dec 17, 2011
Ex-Nation

Postby Jean Valjean » Mon Aug 25, 2014 7:58 am

CTALNH wrote:
Katganistan wrote:
How?

Ancient greek way of education.

Though we are gonna need a butt load of philosophers willing to teach each and everyone personally.


The Socratic method? Which all teachers utilize anyway?

User avatar
Esternial
Retired Moderator
 
Posts: 54394
Founded: May 09, 2009
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Esternial » Mon Aug 25, 2014 7:59 am

I sometimes wish my professors used good examples and didn't stick to theoretical explanation only.

Even a simple metaphor sometimes does wonders.

User avatar
Cyrisnia
Senator
 
Posts: 3982
Founded: Jun 09, 2014
Ex-Nation

Postby Cyrisnia » Mon Aug 25, 2014 8:02 am

Krjder wrote:As a Company Sergeant in the cadets, the way I teach is:
Tell them what you are teaching
Tell them why they are being taught this
Tell them the objective
Demonstrate
Demonstrate in detail
Get the cadets it carry it out
Individual assessment, get them to do it on their own
Carry it out as a group
Conclude.

this is actually pretty effective
R E D L E G S


【BORN TO ABOLISH】
SOUTH IS A F**K
鬼神 Kill Em All 1859
I am free man
410,757,864,530 DEAD REBS

User avatar
CTALNH
Powerbroker
 
Posts: 9596
Founded: Jul 18, 2010
Ex-Nation

Postby CTALNH » Mon Aug 25, 2014 8:02 am

Jean Valjean wrote:
CTALNH wrote:Ancient greek way of education.

Though we are gonna need a butt load of philosophers willing to teach each and everyone personally.


The Socratic method? Which all teachers utilize anyway?

Where?
"This guy is a State socialist, which doesn't so much mean mass murder and totalitarianism as it means trying to have a strong state to lead the way out of poverty and towards a bright future. Strict state control of the economy is necessary to make the great leap forward into that brighter future, and all elements of society must be sure to contribute or else."
Economic Left/Right: -9.25
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: 3.64
Lawful Neutral/Lawful Evil half and half.
Authoritarian Extreme Leftist because fuck pre-existing Ideologies.
"Epicus Doomicus Metallicus"
Radical Anti-Radical Feminist Feminist
S.W.I.F: Sex Worker Inclusionary Feminist.
T.I.F: Trans Inclusionary Feminist

User avatar
CTALNH
Powerbroker
 
Posts: 9596
Founded: Jul 18, 2010
Ex-Nation

Postby CTALNH » Mon Aug 25, 2014 8:04 am

Esternial wrote:I sometimes wish my professors used good examples and didn't stick to theoretical explanation only.

Even a simple metaphor sometimes does wonders.

Give a man fish and he will it for a day.

Give a man viagra and he will try to spear the fish.


Oh my god this sounded so much better in my head.
Last edited by CTALNH on Mon Aug 25, 2014 8:04 am, edited 1 time in total.
"This guy is a State socialist, which doesn't so much mean mass murder and totalitarianism as it means trying to have a strong state to lead the way out of poverty and towards a bright future. Strict state control of the economy is necessary to make the great leap forward into that brighter future, and all elements of society must be sure to contribute or else."
Economic Left/Right: -9.25
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: 3.64
Lawful Neutral/Lawful Evil half and half.
Authoritarian Extreme Leftist because fuck pre-existing Ideologies.
"Epicus Doomicus Metallicus"
Radical Anti-Radical Feminist Feminist
S.W.I.F: Sex Worker Inclusionary Feminist.
T.I.F: Trans Inclusionary Feminist

User avatar
Forsher
Postmaster of the Fleet
 
Posts: 22041
Founded: Jan 30, 2012
New York Times Democracy

Postby Forsher » Sat Aug 30, 2014 10:45 pm

The Grim Reaper wrote:
This lecture-model, to my mind, can be improved by taking some elements of the flipped classroom approach whereby the learner first encounters the material and then turns up to the class. Naturally this allows the learner to actually process the information. Even so, I don't think that this is a particularly good approach.


It's late, so I can't really say much - but, being a first year student, I had a couple of subjects where the readings were expected to be completed prior to attending lectures. Obviously, that one's a bit hard to observe, but word on the street was that most of my peers preferred it when the lectures were written with the assumption that students had already completely preliminary reading.


I'm not sure myself if it is actually better. I stopped reading the stuff for one subject but I haven't really noticed any difference between how much stuff makes sense and not beyond some of it not being repetitive. However, were that subject more like other courses I do/have done I think it would be better because they move through so much more, so much faster than that one.
That it Could be What it Is, Is What it Is

Stop making shit up, though. Links, or it's a God-damn lie and you know it.

The normie life is heteronormie

We won't know until 2053 when it'll be really obvious what he should've done. [...] We have no option but to guess.

User avatar
NERVUN
Retired Moderator
 
Posts: 29451
Founded: Mar 24, 2005
Ex-Nation

Postby NERVUN » Sat Aug 30, 2014 11:12 pm

Lectures have their place, the same with drill and kill. There ARE times when it is appropriate.

All the time is not it however.

As for what... depends a great deal on what you're doing, what you want, and your students. Probably the most aggravating aspect of my chosen profession is that I can have a lesson that with one group of kids just hits the sweet spot and I know they got what I wanted them to, they understand what I wanted them to, they'll remember it, AND they had a great time while doing it... and the VERY next class, the same lesson bombs hard. There's just so many variables based on your students and THAT changes daily with factors beyond your control (They're having a bad day, etc.).
To those who feel, life is a tragedy. To those who think, it's a comedy.
"Men, today you'll be issued small trees. Do what you can for the emperor's glory." -Daistallia 2104 on bonsai charges in WWII
Science may provide the means while religion provides the motivation but humanity and humanity alone provides the vehicle -DaWoad

One-Stop Rules Shop, read it, love it, live by it. Getting Help Mod email: nervun@nationstates.net NSG Glossary
Add 10,145 to post count from Jolt: I have it from an unimpeachable source, that Dark Side cookies look like the Death Star. The other ones look like butterflies, or bunnies, or something.-Grave_n_Idle

Proud Member of FMGADHPAC. Join today!

User avatar
Dajing (Ancient)
Chargé d'Affaires
 
Posts: 407
Founded: Aug 29, 2014
Ex-Nation

Postby Dajing (Ancient) » Sat Aug 30, 2014 11:24 pm

Isn't it a moot point to discuss the education of people other than the monarch? Proletariat are cattle, petty-bourgeois are dogs, and one cannot very well improve capitalists.

User avatar
Pandeeria
Post Marshal
 
Posts: 15269
Founded: Jun 12, 2011
Ex-Nation

Postby Pandeeria » Sat Aug 30, 2014 11:28 pm

I would say reducing homework and standardization would be a good start.
Lavochkin wrote:Never got why educated people support communism.

In capitalism, you pretty much have a 50/50 chance of being rich or poor. In communism, it's 1/99. What makes people think they have the luck/skill to become the 1% if they can't even succeed in a 50/50 society???

User avatar
The Peoples of Xaer
Spokesperson
 
Posts: 164
Founded: May 12, 2009
Ex-Nation

Postby The Peoples of Xaer » Sat Aug 30, 2014 11:37 pm

Dajing wrote:Isn't it a moot point to discuss the education of people other than the monarch? Proletariat are cattle, petty-bourgeois are dogs, and one cannot very well improve capitalists.

You are just precious.

Sounds like Mr. Mod knows the score. There's no single right way to teach, because no two students are going to learn the same way. You've got kids who can memorize stuff really fast that get bored of busywork, you've got kids who learn well from lecture, kids that learn well from repetition, kids that learn well from demonstration, or from hands-on stuff. There's just no magic solution that will work for everybody, but smaller class sizes and less "teach to the test" would be a decent start.

We definitely need more critical thinking/problem-solving than rote memorization or teaching to standardized tests. There's a time and a place for memorization of basic introductory level concepts, but information can be easily looked up out in the real world. You can't just look up how to think about something critically, or how to appraise an argument, or solve an abstract problem on Wiki.

User avatar
Dajing (Ancient)
Chargé d'Affaires
 
Posts: 407
Founded: Aug 29, 2014
Ex-Nation

Postby Dajing (Ancient) » Sat Aug 30, 2014 11:52 pm

The Peoples of Xaer wrote:There's just no magic solution that will work for everybody

I didn't know you were an expert in magic. Pray tell what magic solutions you have tried.
Last edited by Dajing (Ancient) on Sat Aug 30, 2014 11:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
The Peoples of Xaer
Spokesperson
 
Posts: 164
Founded: May 12, 2009
Ex-Nation

Postby The Peoples of Xaer » Sun Aug 31, 2014 12:18 am

Dajing wrote:
The Peoples of Xaer wrote:There's just no magic solution that will work for everybody

I didn't know you were an expert in magic. Pray tell what magic solutions you have tried.

I don't like to brag, but I AM an extremely high level grandmaster super-special-awesome sorcery genius of untold power and ability who routinely bends the very fabric of reality to suit my every whim. Why, just the other day I had a hankering for cookies and conjured them from a magical portal installed in my kitchen. Oh, sure, I had to fetch a specific assortment of materials, measure them out precisely, and mix up the proper potion first to make the portal create the cookies, but at the end of the day the fact still stands that I had magically delicious cookies.

Sadly, I have yet to devise a make-kids-learn-shit spell or potion that works universally. Certain potions such as the Philter of the Crimson Bovine seem to help some of them to varying degrees, yet others react badly and do even worse when under its effect.

User avatar
Dajing (Ancient)
Chargé d'Affaires
 
Posts: 407
Founded: Aug 29, 2014
Ex-Nation

Postby Dajing (Ancient) » Sun Aug 31, 2014 12:30 am

Son of a bitch. Even I can't summon cookies. Or maybe I can, but I don't know since I never bothered to try. But the other day I did make it stop raining until I got home just by thinking about it. Maybe we can help eachother. I'd be glad to continue this discussion via private message.
Last edited by Dajing (Ancient) on Sun Aug 31, 2014 12:31 am, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
Vamtrl
Ambassador
 
Posts: 1990
Founded: Oct 11, 2013
Ex-Nation

Postby Vamtrl » Sun Aug 31, 2014 1:01 am

CTALNH wrote:
Jean Valjean wrote:
The Socratic method? Which all teachers utilize anyway?

Where?


I recall my teacher asking "why" all the time. Bitch had me annoyed as fuck.

User avatar
NERVUN
Retired Moderator
 
Posts: 29451
Founded: Mar 24, 2005
Ex-Nation

Postby NERVUN » Sun Aug 31, 2014 3:17 am

Vamtrl wrote:
CTALNH wrote:Where?


I recall my teacher asking "why" all the time. Bitch had me annoyed as fuck.

I... may have a number of similarly annoyed students due to a habit of automatically asking "Why?" whenever they make a statement.

Of course, those not currently being instructed by me have told me that they now appreciate it as it made their English stronger and got them ready to deal with a very different system in terms of going to a Western country from Japan...

Those who currently are my students just want me dead.
To those who feel, life is a tragedy. To those who think, it's a comedy.
"Men, today you'll be issued small trees. Do what you can for the emperor's glory." -Daistallia 2104 on bonsai charges in WWII
Science may provide the means while religion provides the motivation but humanity and humanity alone provides the vehicle -DaWoad

One-Stop Rules Shop, read it, love it, live by it. Getting Help Mod email: nervun@nationstates.net NSG Glossary
Add 10,145 to post count from Jolt: I have it from an unimpeachable source, that Dark Side cookies look like the Death Star. The other ones look like butterflies, or bunnies, or something.-Grave_n_Idle

Proud Member of FMGADHPAC. Join today!

Next

Advertisement

Remove ads

Return to General

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Aadhiris, Ancientania, Big Eyed Animation, Falkonne, Google [Bot], Hidrandia, Ineva, Maximum Imperium Rex, Neo-Hermitius, New Temecula, Nyoskova, Sarolandia, Southland, Statesburg, Tiami

Advertisement

Remove ads