Why the minimum wage cannot help.

[Risottia]

Watch fox news u liberal elitist! Down with inheritance taxes!

Of course, anyone who isn't a liberal elitist abhors the idea of working to get his money, and relies on inheritance instead.

[The Archregimancy]

Feel free to take a job at $1/hour, see how that works for you.

Hey, we all know how happy and prosperous those sweatshop workers in China and India are! Why they're just rolling in dough! They're not worked to death for very little, nope, not at all!

They're rolling in enough dough to save 40-50% of it.

Yay slavery!

Is there a point you're trying to make? Because you're failing to do it.

It was only a matter of time till someone tried to defend sweatshops a a superior example of production practise. The dubious honour, in this case, was yours.

Certainly superior to the alternative. The dubious claims are yours. Slave labor cannot save 30-40% of their income.

I thought it was 40-50%, re: your earlier post...

Reposted, just because I love it when people can't keep track of what they pull out of their jacksey.

Excuse me? I said 40-50%. The sources said 30-50%.

[Inherentjoydom]

Watch fox news u liberal elitist! Down with inheritance taxes!

Of course, anyone who isn't a liberal elitist abhors the idea of working to get his money, and relies on inheritance instead.

I come from a rich family not my fault.

[Farnhamia]

I'm 11 fyi and i'm who u r attmepting without success to beat in a depate

Interesting, because the minimum age here is at least 13. Maybe even 14.

u have no proof that what i just said is true

Your own words are evidence. You claimed to be 11, why would you lie?

to be annoying

You admit to trolling, as your defence to being underage?

No my defense was that my motives were not to be annoying rather to play a practical joke.

Also known as trolling. Thanks again.

no it was pureley comical

Not really, but I do hope you enjoyed it, because three people have opened threads in Moderation in which you figure prominently.

[The Archregimancy]

Feel free to take a job at $1/hour, see how that works for you.

Hey, we all know how happy and prosperous those sweatshop workers in China and India are! Why they're just rolling in dough! They're not worked to death for very little, nope, not at all!

They're rolling in enough dough to save 40-50% of it.

Yay slavery!

Is there a point you're trying to make? Because you're failing to do it.

It was only a matter of time till someone tried to defend sweatshops a a superior example of production practise. The dubious honour, in this case, was yours.

Certainly superior to the alternative.

The alternative... you mean 'being paid a minimum wage, and not being compelled into slave labour conditions'?

Oh they have that option in China? For the masses? News to me.

Of course they have that option. Whether or not that option is employed, is a different matter. But China is following your advice, it's letting the market make these decisions... and thus there are slave-level workers churning out cheap crap for the American market. Your philosophy at work.

It's better than the alternative. It has increased incomes. It has increased wealth.

[The Archregimancy]

I'm 11 fyi and i'm who u r attmepting without success to beat in a depate

Interesting, because the minimum age here is at least 13. Maybe even 14.

u have no proof that what i just said is true

Your own words are evidence. You claimed to be 11, why would you lie?

to be annoying

You admit to trolling, as your defence to being underage?

No my defense was that my motives were not to be annoying rather to play a practical joke.

Also known as trolling. Thanks again.

no it was pureley comical

Not really, but I do hope you enjoyed it, because three people have opened threads in Moderation in which you figure prominently.

link them

[Tekania]

Nope. See, the problem is you're explaining this shit in an absurdly patronising tone ("even any socialist can understand") when you don't even know what you're talking about.

You've already admitted you're thirteen, which leads me to highly doubt you've experienced any of this first-hand.

Yes, I do know. And age =/= skill.

It may mean not much experience, but it does not mean skill. And yes, I've had enough fills of my own lessons from older people with experience and I'm conveying their lessons here.

No, but age and experience are correlative. And you lack either of those. Skills mean shit without applicable experience. So regardless how much skill you may think you have, it's all meaningless because you lack the experience to put the skill to any real use. You can't "borrow" experience from another, so merely saying this is what you got from experienced person "X" means little, since there is no reason to assume you even have the experience to property apply and convey what you took from same said "X", especially when your lessons have been contradicted by basic econ.

[New Chalcedon]

-snip-

Save your energy - he's 13 and not going to be understanding the concepts in that.

1: If he can't understand the rebuttal, too bad for him: the attempt will broaden his horizons.

2: If he won't even try to understand counterarguments (as the most cursory reading of this thread shows) then he shouldn't post such doctrinaire lines of 'reasoning'. He's begging to get shot down.....

3: Even if he's not interested, someone else may look and find it interesting. Perhaps even interesting enough to look up the sources I kindly provided.

But yeah, I fear you're probably right.

[Sibirsky]

Real world. If you are making minimum wage, chances are you are in high school. No family to feed. Not even yourself to feed.

Horseshit.

I know, because I worked minimum wage for several years, here in the sunny USA. Because I was an immigrant, and that was my entry point into the workforce.

Real world. Your arguments suggest you've never experienced it.

Minimum wage? Yes, once. I was 16. My entire paycheck was my entertainment budget.

[Risottia]

Watch fox news u liberal elitist! Down with inheritance taxes!

Of course, anyone who isn't a liberal elitist abhors the idea of working to get his money, and relies on inheritance instead.

I come from a rich family not my fault.

Taxation =/= punishment.
If you are worth something, you'll earn your money through your work. That's classical, conservative work ethics to you.

[The Archregimancy]

$4 is what makes the corporatist pricks happy and forces everyone else to starve.

Very rude language u Communist degenerate.

Its not rude to speak the truth. Could you survive on $160 a week? Its hard enough on the current amount.

Most people getting minimum wage are high school students. That's gas, cigarette, beer, weed and god knows what else money. They aren't paying rent. They aren't paying for most of their food. They aren't paying for healthcare...

If my income went to the above, and nothing else, $160/week would be adequate.

Most are young That doesn't mean they are high school students, or that they are even going to school.

More than half are high school students if I remember correctly. Either way, you're talking about less than 2% of the population. Minimum wage limits opportunity at low wages now, and possible opportunity for higher wages later.

The stuff I have read just has said they are young, and most haven't been to College, but whatever. And, yes it doe only concern 2% of the population, but those 2% are lowest wage earners, and arguably the most vulnerable. I can hardly see how it limits opportunity, but I can see how it decreases poverty.

A low paying job, with hands on experience is better than an unemployment check.

Yes, because removing the minimum wage will give us zero unemployment, just like it was before the minimum wage was brought in, right?

Of course not. But it would increase employment. Where are the movie theater ushers? Where are the gas station attendants? Priced out of existence.

Movie theater ushers still exist where I go the movies. And gas station attendants weren't any less prevalent back in the day then they are now. And gas stations attendants still exist in New Jersey, though that is for completely separate reasons...

No they aren't. NJ aside, most gas stations are self serve. As recently as the early 90s there were full service gas stations. You pull up and a kid in high school fills up the car for you, washes your windshield, check your oil and tire pressure. And when there is no one there to fill gas for, he goes and helps the mechanic work on cars, leading to a better, higher paying job.

[Sibirsky]

Real world. If you are making minimum wage, chances are you are in high school. No family to feed. Not even yourself to feed.

Real world, thousands of adults are working in minimum wage jobs because there is no other work!

I hate to repeat myself, but thank your two headed one party government.

[Inherentjoydom]

show me the threads started by these slanders!

[The Archregimancy]

$4 is what makes the corporatist pricks happy and forces everyone else to starve.

Very rude language u Communist degenerate.

Its not rude to speak the truth. Could you survive on $160 a week? Its hard enough on the current amount.

Most people getting minimum wage are high school students. That's gas, cigarette, beer, weed and god knows what else money. They aren't paying rent. They aren't paying for most of their food. They aren't paying for healthcare...

If my income went to the above, and nothing else, $160/week would be adequate.

Most are young That doesn't mean they are high school students, or that they are even going to school.

More than half are high school students if I remember correctly. Either way, you're talking about less than 2% of the population. Minimum wage limits opportunity at low wages now, and possible opportunity for higher wages later.

The stuff I have read just has said they are young, and most haven't been to College, but whatever. And, yes it doe only concern 2% of the population, but those 2% are lowest wage earners, and arguably the most vulnerable. I can hardly see how it limits opportunity, but I can see how it decreases poverty.

A low paying job, with hands on experience is better than an unemployment check.

Yes, because removing the minimum wage will give us zero unemployment, just like it was before the minimum wage was brought in, right?

Of course not. But it would increase employment. Where are the movie theater ushers? Where are the gas station attendants? Priced out of existence.

They didn't exist here before the minimum wage was introduced. In fact, it had negligible impact on employment figures in the UK. Furthermore, as GnD states, using the US example it is a false assumption those jobs would be re-created, as "efficiencies" have made them role redundant. A company won't hire more staff than it needs to in order to produce as much product as it is able to sell, however cheap and unprotected the labour may be. Arguing that they would do otherwise is patently absurd.

Arguing that such jobs would not exist is absurd. They would.

[Inherentjoydom]

Watch fox news u liberal elitist! Down with inheritance taxes!

Of course, anyone who isn't a liberal elitist abhors the idea of working to get his money, and relies on inheritance instead.

I come from a rich family not my fault.

Taxation =/= punishment.
If you are worth something, you'll earn your money through your work. That's classical, conservative work ethics to you.

I would like to use my inhetence to fuel the growth of the corporation i will statrt

[Tekania]

What's to prevent the company from pocketing the profit and still pay their employees at $4? Just because there's a raise in sales and employment doesn't mean there's going to be a raise in salary.

Indeed, open markets seem to reward capital over labor. As such, while investors in the company are likely to see higher dividends, labor is far less likely to see additions to their pay. Human beings are greedy little bastards, and his theory fails to take that into account while praising deregulation. eregulation and the removal of min. wage laws will not have the effect people like him predict, because the investors are more likely to demand more labor at the same pay, while hoarding the capital gains to themselves.

[Yenke-Bin]

Minimum wage? Yes, once. I was 16. My entire paycheck was my entertainment budget.

Good for you. Some of us have to pay things like student loans, car payments, insurance, food, bills, etc. Not everyone can waste their check on games.

[Inherentjoydom]

Minimum wage? Yes, once. I was 16. My entire paycheck was my entertainment budget.

Good for you. Some of us have to pay things like student loans, car payments, insurance, food, bills, etc. Not everyone can waste their check on games.

u guys don't have trust funds?

[Psychotic Mongooses]

Minimum wage? Yes, once. I was 16. My entire paycheck was my entertainment budget.

Oh WOW!

You entertainment budget. Well, excuuuuuse us.

You sure do know what hardship is don't you.

[Yenke-Bin]

u guys don't have trust funds?

I know you're trying really, really hard. However, you're not that funny. Try again.

[Inherentjoydom]

u guys don't have trust funds?

I know you're trying really, really hard. However, you're not that funny. Try again.[/q
i do have a trust fund

[Risottia]

Watch fox news u liberal elitist! Down with inheritance taxes!

Of course, anyone who isn't a liberal elitist abhors the idea of working to get his money, and relies on inheritance instead.

I come from a rich family not my fault.

Taxation =/= punishment.
If you are worth something, you'll earn your money through your work. That's classical, conservative work ethics to you.

I would like to use my inhetence to fuel the growth of the corporation i will statrt

You should do it the hard way: go to the bank, armed with your highly innovative business ideas only, and try and get a loan. Then repay it.

And it's "inheritance" and "start", btw.

[Risottia]

i do have a trust fund

So, grandma and grandaddy gave you money.
Wow, we're so impressed. *yawn*

[New Chalcedon]

As an addendum to my earlier post....

Australia has a high minimum wage - AUD$15.00/hour [For the Amerocentrics, that's about USD12.50/hour, give or take depending on exchange rate fluctuations] or something like that. If the OP was anything like right, we'd be suffering Zimbabwe-esque un(der)employment levels. Instead, our unemployment rate is 5.3% (and underemployment is proabably something like 8% on top of that - no big change there since about 1995 or so. We do seem to like our part-time working mums and students.....)

Yet, somehow, we've come through 2007, 2008, 2009 and (probably) 2010 without ever suffering a recession! How's things over there, America with the absurdly low minimum wage? Oh, you say things are bad, do you? Well, too bad. Perhaps you shouldn't have paid Mr. Friedman so much attention over the years - you might be better off now!

[New new nebraska]

We had this argument in a thread once before. Let's say minimum wage is $10 an hour. Drop it to $5/hr and the company can hire two workers right? They can afford to yes but there re several problems with that 1) even if they did hire two workers it's easier for those with less expenses to survive. So two people with something is better than 1 guy with something and 1 with nothing, but the man with a family will have to get a second $5/hr job to compensate, thus at $5/hr two people take up three jobs but at $10/hr Mr.A worked at store A and Mr.B at store B, but Mr.A who needs the ten dollars can survive and Mr.B has a better wage. 2) that was assuming they did hire two people. They won't. One guy did the job fine before so if they can pay him less they keep more money and thus increase their profit. Theoretically the decrease in wages should lead to a decrease in the price of the item, but look at now. Right now
Companies are making profits. Therefore they ahouldneither a) hire new workers or b) increase the wagesnof thier current workers considering thier current workforce is capable of turning a profit with more labor per person. They have not done either.