GESO OOC thread v.2

[Galactic Economy and Security]

Welcome members and non members!
This is for general chitchat about most anything, including RPs, situations, and so forth, a place to throw around ideas and scenarios and to chill!

Link to our General Assembly
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Have fun and stay frosty!

[The United Remnants of America]

*wanders in*

Oh.. It's so... Empty...

[Albamech]

Tag

[Minroz]

Tag. Hi everyone~ Nihao Ma~

[The Fedral Union]

Tag as well so I don't loose this in the mess of threads I already have

[Excidium Planetis]

Are we free to post in the new General Assembly thread? Or are we supposed to be recreating the old posts?

[RawHein]

Are we free to post in the new General Assembly thread? Or are we supposed to be recreating the old posts?

Nah, no way we could get everyone to post those in the right order. It's a continuation, act as if nothing happened.

[RawHein]

Some background on the RP coming up: some of the refugees that fled in the Gata'ja expansion allied with pirates and raiders to protect themselves and form a new, shipborne civilisation. Distrustful of aliens and outsiders, its been raiding shipping lanes including other fleeing refugees for months. I'm including a log from Dolm on the Discord chat, since he expanded on it much, much better that I could:

Code: Select all

[11:48 PM] Dolm: Anyways, while I was gone, I built on this idea - it sticks with the original refugee fleet capitulates to pirates in a deliberate gambit idea though, so it's not quite entirely desperate refugee fleet

[11:51 PM] Dolm: But here's the idea - the remnents of eight kingdoms, fleeing for their lives. Say 65 000 civie ships escorted by the surviving 2000 warships. As they trek across the galaxy, they are whittled down by pirate fleets making daring raids. Eventually, most of their military is annihilated trying to defend their civies from either piracy or states hostile to the nomadic fleet. From 2000 escorts, they barely have a hundred warships left. Of their initial refugee fleet, nearly 20% are annihilated, leaving barely 50 000 ships full of terrified, despairing women and children.

[11:52 PM] Dolm: Partially due to his own ambition, and partially as a desperate last gambit, the nobleman leading the fleet, Stephen, personally goes out and finds the large local pirate fleet (which happens to be near GESO space). He lets himself be captured, and in doing so manages to smoothtalk the pirates into an audience with the pirate leader.

[11:54 PM] Dolm: His preposition is simple - his people will recognize the pirates as their overlords and saviors, and will pay tribute to them when they can. In exchange, the pirate fleet will protect them, and allow them to settle in their space. In Stephen's eyes, it's a gamble to turn the local pirates into their new military/protectors.

[11:56 PM] Dolm: To solidify the deal, he notes the massive gender imbalance in the pirate fleet - primarily outcast men, and in his own refugee fleet - less of an imbalance, but leaning more towards women since they come from a patriarchical culture and so the men stayed behind to fight these aliens. I am assuming they are both human or at least of the same species here.

[11:56 PM] Dolm: He suggests that he could get the pirates wives. And husbands for the pirate women. This is yet another gamble - a way of tightening the new union through a massive marriage alliance.

[11:57 PM] Dolm: This pirate fleet might have had say, 1140 converted civilian ships as their warships.

[11:57 PM] Dolm: Stephen brings with him over 50 000 civie ships.

[11:59 PM] Dolm: Those who fled with the ships are often the upper crust of the former kingdom's population - there are many capable adminstrators, and while much of their military has been
decimated, many generals still survive. He suggests that his administrators can help the pirates manage their sprawling fleet, and his generals help them innovate new tactics against the enemy.

[12:00 AM] Dolm: The pirates accept, and Stephen heads back to relay the news. It is a hard sell for his people, but he manages to convince all of them of the necessity of this action at least. From being hunted and worn down, his people have now secured a new home.

[12:02 AM] Dolm: As integration with the pirate fleet begins, and new space-based settlements are established (which conveniently soon act as rest stops for these pirates, later where their new families are, later where shipyards are built...) the pirates multiply in strength. They soon attract and either conqueror or assimilate other pirate fleets, and this more massive fleet itself raids with
more vigor, to supply these new settlements with the necessary supplies to survive and thrive.

[12:04 AM] Dolm: In the course of this, the refugee fleet swears loyalty to the pirate lord, and begins suggesting that perhaps the pirate lord is their new king. They do similar with the pirates. Basically buttering him up and giving him a crapton of honours, getting him and the pirates to identify with these former refugees. From pirate lord, the Pirate leader begins to dream of kingdom and empire
[12:05 AM] Dolm: But these large scale raids have attracted the GESO alliance, who are unhappy with their trade getting crippled. And depending on how things go, probably utterly pissed off that some pirate fleet tried to extort tribute from a frontier colony

[12:05 AM] Dolm: Pirates just do what they normally do and all.

[12:06 AM] Dolm: Add in perhaps a history of mistrust for other peoples and states during the refugee migration era, and it could explain their reluctance to interact with other states out there, or to open communications with them

[12:11 AM] Dolm: Alternatively, they could've been raiding out of sorta-necessity (mostly to kickstart their economy and all that), but because they didn't understand the people they were raiding well enough, or perhaps because they didn't expect it, suddenly the GESO is sending gigantic warfleets to smite them out of existence, and traumatized by their recent history, they start framing this as the same as that invasion destroying their eight kingdoms and start seriously mobilizing for war, and so years or even decades of hostility could ensue just like that

[12:13 AM] Dolm: The GESO sees a grand pirate coalition with suspiciously advanced weapons and some suspiciously new warships, the refugees see a diabolical evil mobilizing to kill them all

[12:15 AM] Dolm: Next to no one thinks of stopping and communicating with the other side. GESO thinks "Why talk to pirates?" And the refugees think "They're out to kill us, we cannot let this be. We must not endure the grief of the migration again. Never again."

[12:18 AM] Dolm: By the time the GESO realizes what is going on, it is too late - countless atrocities have already accidentally been commited. All those pirate resupply depots? Yeah, there were hundreds of thousands of people and countless families in there. And the pirates themselves have carpet nuked outlying colonies in vengence

[12:19 AM] Dolm: The pirate kingdom also comes with extremely different values - in attempted peace negotiations, they demand things such as "suzerainity over fifteen worlds" and "15 million slaves", neither which I reckon the modern liberal inspired GESO could accept

[12:21 AM] Dolm: But this should lead to space based massive irritant on the alliance that is constant enemies that won't go away

[12:22 AM] Dolm: Especially if they also start taking in all pirate fleets and societal outcasts too

[12:22 AM] Dolm: Societal outcasts have personal reasons to hate the society they were outcast from afterall

[12:25 AM] Dolm: Most of the beginning of the refugee confederacy wasn't exactly GESO based. And like I mentioned before - their Pirate Lord now dreams of kingdom and empire

[12:25 AM] Dolm: They could be expanding in all directions, and raiding in all directions

[12:26 AM] Dolm: Particularly when they start integrating human pirate fleets from all over

[12:28 AM] Dolm: XD

[12:30 AM] Dolm: The biggest idea behind refugee hostile fleet is that we're getting a sympathetic enemy, and one potentially with plenty of awesome characters such as Stephen, who I am aiming to be an honourable magnificent bastard, or their king, Krano, who is uneducated and vulnerable to getting buttered up, but also has a sharp intellect and can be sufficiently ruthless in pursuing what he sees is best.

[Minroz]

-snip-

Sounds fun, I think it's a great idea. We can work with it especially there'll be a lot of action involved.

So what else anyone here thinks?

[The Fedral Union]

I'm of the same mindset as Rawhein and you Minroz , I think it'd be a great kick-starter for things and could lead to all sorts of interesting places.

[SF n F]

A lot of opportunities for characters to interact. Sounds good.

[Excidium Planetis]

Some background on the RP coming up: some of the refugees that fled in the Gata'ja expansion allied with pirates and raiders to protect themselves and form a new, shipborne civilisation. Distrustful of aliens and outsiders, its been raiding shipping lanes including other fleeing refugees for months. I'm including a log from Dolm on the Discord chat, since he expanded on it much, much better that I could:

Code: Select all

[11:48 PM] Dolm: Anyways, while I was gone, I built on this idea - it sticks with the original refugee fleet capitulates to pirates in a deliberate gambit idea though, so it's not quite entirely desperate refugee fleet

[11:51 PM] Dolm: But here's the idea - the remnents of eight kingdoms, fleeing for their lives. Say 65 000 civie ships escorted by the surviving 2000 warships. As they trek across the galaxy, they are whittled down by pirate fleets making daring raids. Eventually, most of their military is annihilated trying to defend their civies from either piracy or states hostile to the nomadic fleet. From 2000 escorts, they barely have a hundred warships left. Of their initial refugee fleet, nearly 20% are annihilated, leaving barely 50 000 ships full of terrified, despairing women and children.

[11:52 PM] Dolm: Partially due to his own ambition, and partially as a desperate last gambit, the nobleman leading the fleet, Stephen, personally goes out and finds the large local pirate fleet (which happens to be near GESO space). He lets himself be captured, and in doing so manages to smoothtalk the pirates into an audience with the pirate leader.

[11:54 PM] Dolm: His preposition is simple - his people will recognize the pirates as their overlords and saviors, and will pay tribute to them when they can. In exchange, the pirate fleet will protect them, and allow them to settle in their space. In Stephen's eyes, it's a gamble to turn the local pirates into their new military/protectors.

[11:56 PM] Dolm: To solidify the deal, he notes the massive gender imbalance in the pirate fleet - primarily outcast men, and in his own refugee fleet - less of an imbalance, but leaning more towards women since they come from a patriarchical culture and so the men stayed behind to fight these aliens. I am assuming they are both human or at least of the same species here.

[11:56 PM] Dolm: He suggests that he could get the pirates wives. And husbands for the pirate women. This is yet another gamble - a way of tightening the new union through a massive marriage alliance.

[11:57 PM] Dolm: This pirate fleet might have had say, 1140 converted civilian ships as their warships.

[11:57 PM] Dolm: Stephen brings with him over 50 000 civie ships.

[11:59 PM] Dolm: Those who fled with the ships are often the upper crust of the former kingdom's population - there are many capable adminstrators, and while much of their military has been
decimated, many generals still survive. He suggests that his administrators can help the pirates manage their sprawling fleet, and his generals help them innovate new tactics against the enemy.

[12:00 AM] Dolm: The pirates accept, and Stephen heads back to relay the news. It is a hard sell for his people, but he manages to convince all of them of the necessity of this action at least. From being hunted and worn down, his people have now secured a new home.

[12:02 AM] Dolm: As integration with the pirate fleet begins, and new space-based settlements are established (which conveniently soon act as rest stops for these pirates, later where their new families are, later where shipyards are built...) the pirates multiply in strength. They soon attract and either conqueror or assimilate other pirate fleets, and this more massive fleet itself raids with
more vigor, to supply these new settlements with the necessary supplies to survive and thrive.

[12:04 AM] Dolm: In the course of this, the refugee fleet swears loyalty to the pirate lord, and begins suggesting that perhaps the pirate lord is their new king. They do similar with the pirates. Basically buttering him up and giving him a crapton of honours, getting him and the pirates to identify with these former refugees. From pirate lord, the Pirate leader begins to dream of kingdom and empire
[12:05 AM] Dolm: But these large scale raids have attracted the GESO alliance, who are unhappy with their trade getting crippled. And depending on how things go, probably utterly pissed off that some pirate fleet tried to extort tribute from a frontier colony

[12:05 AM] Dolm: Pirates just do what they normally do and all.

[12:06 AM] Dolm: Add in perhaps a history of mistrust for other peoples and states during the refugee migration era, and it could explain their reluctance to interact with other states out there, or to open communications with them

[12:11 AM] Dolm: Alternatively, they could've been raiding out of sorta-necessity (mostly to kickstart their economy and all that), but because they didn't understand the people they were raiding well enough, or perhaps because they didn't expect it, suddenly the GESO is sending gigantic warfleets to smite them out of existence, and traumatized by their recent history, they start framing this as the same as that invasion destroying their eight kingdoms and start seriously mobilizing for war, and so years or even decades of hostility could ensue just like that

[12:13 AM] Dolm: The GESO sees a grand pirate coalition with suspiciously advanced weapons and some suspiciously new warships, the refugees see a diabolical evil mobilizing to kill them all

[12:15 AM] Dolm: Next to no one thinks of stopping and communicating with the other side. GESO thinks "Why talk to pirates?" And the refugees think "They're out to kill us, we cannot let this be. We must not endure the grief of the migration again. Never again."

[12:18 AM] Dolm: By the time the GESO realizes what is going on, it is too late - countless atrocities have already accidentally been commited. All those pirate resupply depots? Yeah, there were hundreds of thousands of people and countless families in there. And the pirates themselves have carpet nuked outlying colonies in vengence

[12:19 AM] Dolm: The pirate kingdom also comes with extremely different values - in attempted peace negotiations, they demand things such as "suzerainity over fifteen worlds" and "15 million slaves", neither which I reckon the modern liberal inspired GESO could accept

[12:21 AM] Dolm: But this should lead to space based massive irritant on the alliance that is constant enemies that won't go away

[12:22 AM] Dolm: Especially if they also start taking in all pirate fleets and societal outcasts too

[12:22 AM] Dolm: Societal outcasts have personal reasons to hate the society they were outcast from afterall

[12:25 AM] Dolm: Most of the beginning of the refugee confederacy wasn't exactly GESO based. And like I mentioned before - their Pirate Lord now dreams of kingdom and empire

[12:25 AM] Dolm: They could be expanding in all directions, and raiding in all directions

[12:26 AM] Dolm: Particularly when they start integrating human pirate fleets from all over

[12:28 AM] Dolm: XD

[12:30 AM] Dolm: The biggest idea behind refugee hostile fleet is that we're getting a sympathetic enemy, and one potentially with plenty of awesome characters such as Stephen, who I am aiming to be an honourable magnificent bastard, or their king, Krano, who is uneducated and vulnerable to getting buttered up, but also has a sharp intellect and can be sufficiently ruthless in pursuing what he sees is best.

Given their history, Excidians would be far more willing to sympathize with these raiders than any GESO nation.

[RawHein]

Excidium, bear in mind that very limited information would be available at the beginning, hence Far'Ha's comments on them being raiders and pirates in the GA and in the State of the Galaxy post - it's all he's aware of, plus some hyperbole. But once it does come out, I expect lots of drama.

Also, I created a new GRF emblem - tell me what you think:

EDIT:

EDIT2:

EDIT3:

EDIT4:

[HYDRA-Russian Empire]

Yo yo yo! Remember me?

[The Fedral Union]

Its unlikely GESO is going to commit genocide to be honest, we might have other issues though, thats up to debate this isn't finalized.


Less to say there will be many non GESO nations with their hands in the pot, and such a blunder would require the failure of SIU, the SOE (military intelligence). I personally something more contestant should be discussed

[RawHein]

Right. Mistakes are necessary to create drama and conflict, but personally I think killing thousands of civilians is a bit far.

[Excidium Planetis]

Excidium, bear in mind that very limited information would be available at the beginning, hence Far'Ha's comments on them being raiders and pirates in the GA and in the State of the Galaxy post - it's all he's aware of, plus some hyperbole. But once it does come out, I expect lots of drama.

Let me clarify:
Given their history, Excidians would be far more willing to sympathize with nomadic raiders and pirates than other GESO nations.

[The Fedral Union]

...I would like to point out, that the rp is still being planned and several alternative scenarios are being explored, less to say its likely that there will be conflict involving between GESO and the raiders. And I should also note you are bound by the very treaty you signed, not once but twice to assist against piracy. Icly weather you sympathize with them is up to you, you may do so all you wish but you are again bound by treaty obligations.

I should also note I think it would be cool to have a political show down, but that under several articles of mutual defense no one would be in any position to challenge measures for joint security, this entire arc is going to be carefully laid out for maximize fun.

You cannot make up your mind without knowing the entire ic story as much as you may dislike us ICLY. As I still assume your people can think logically?

[Wanderjar]

I'll definitely contribute forces to help fight pirates and the like.

[Minroz]

As I still assume your people can think logically?

To answer your question, yeah, mine do, generally-speaking. That it is within their interests. Another thing, I'll will contribute forces to help fight pirates as well.

[Excidium Planetis]

...I would like to point out, that the rp is still being planned and several alternative scenarios are being explored, less to say its likely that there will be conflict involving between GESO and the raiders. And I should also note you are bound by the very treaty you signed, not once but twice to assist against piracy. Icly weather you sympathize with them is up to you, you may do so all you wish but you are again bound by treaty obligations.

Excidium Planetis is bound by WA law to combat piracy as well.

However, forces acting on behalf of governments do not count as pirates in Excidian law (and indeed, not in WA law), so these raiders are not pirates anyways.

I should also note I think it would be cool to have a political show down, but that under several articles of mutual defense no one would be in any position to challenge measures for joint security, this entire arc is going to be carefully laid out for maximize fun.

The excuse right now is that the negotiations with these raiders have not had 120 days yet nor submitted a Notice of Failure. At least not as far as Delegate Causer is aware.

You cannot make up your mind without knowing the entire ic story as much as you may dislike us ICLY. As I still assume your people can think logically?

The Excidians don't dislike GESO. They are just reluctant to enter into a war because GESO nations are being raided. We're GESO facing total annihilation, maybe they would intervene.

Logically, the costs of mutual defense in this case outweigh the benefits.

[RawHein]

...I would like to point out, that the rp is still being planned and several alternative scenarios are being explored, less to say its likely that there will be conflict involving between GESO and the raiders. And I should also note you are bound by the very treaty you signed, not once but twice to assist against piracy. Icly weather you sympathize with them is up to you, you may do so all you wish but you are again bound by treaty obligations.

Excidium Planetis is bound by WA law to combat piracy as well.

However, forces acting on behalf of governments do not count as pirates in Excidian law (and indeed, not in WA law), so these raiders are not pirates anyways.

This nation is neither known to, nor recognised by GESO at this time. Until, I expect near the end of the RP, they would be regarded by the majority of members as a pirate base with civ support staff. If you wish, I can let you (as a sympathetic nation and a Triumvirii of SIU) gather intel that proves otherwise through the RP.

I should also note I think it would be cool to have a political show down, but that under several articles of mutual defence no one would be in any position to challenge measures for joint security, this entire arc is going to be carefully laid out for maximize fun.

The excuse right now is that the negotiations with these raiders have not had 120 days yet nor submitted a Notice of Failure. At least not as far as Delegate Causer is aware.

Since we're speaking ICly-

Art. 1B

Freedom of movement; unless sacrificed by allied trade command or the receiving world, all signatories shall retain free passage to their destination. Member powers shall promote freedom of movement for goods and services between worlds, and will attempt to minimize conditions that could cause an economic imbalance in intergalactic trade between member governments. Additionally, disputes between trading powers will divest to the Galactic Commerce Committee, which is overseen by the Secretary-General or a individual(s) appointed in his stead. However, as the Galactic Economic and Security Organization cannot impede upon the sovereign decisions of a power to restrict trade through its borders or interfere to an extent in any internal policy, a recourse for the determination of compensation for lost goods and services will be levied.

Art. 3(I)

To guarantee the functionality of this treaty to its fullest extent, member worlds jointly and individually by effective self-sustained capacity and mutual aid, will maintain and improve upon a collective and sufficient self defence capacity to resist armed aggression.

You cannot make up your mind without knowing the entire ic story as much as you may dislike us ICLY. As I still assume your people can think logically?

The Excidians don't dislike GESO. They are just reluctant to enter into a war because GESO nations are being raided. We're GESO facing total annihilation, maybe they would intervene.

Logically, the costs of mutual defense in this case outweigh the benefits.

First an OOC note - TFU's language can be...strong at times. I also don't hold anything against you for IC stuff, and hope the below never actually comes to pass since, well, discussion is nothing without some conflict.

ICly - you joined. You joined knowing that this is an alliance built on promoting free trade and mutual defence. Now when you're being asked to actually do that, protecting trade convoys and rooting out raiders, now is when you get a sudden case of isolationism? Well, we're more than willing to accommodate it - your final bill will be presented at the end of the year.

[Excidium Planetis]

Excidium Planetis is bound by WA law to combat piracy as well.

However, forces acting on behalf of governments do not count as pirates in Excidian law (and indeed, not in WA law), so these raiders are not pirates anyways.

This nation is neither known to, nor recognised by GESO at this time. Until, I expect near the end of the RP, they would be regarded by the majority of members as a pirate base with civ support staff. If you wish, I can let you (as a sympathetic nation and a Triumvirii of SIU) gather intel that proves otherwise through the RP.

In the absence of evidence that these are actually pirates, Excidium Planetis would not take any offensive actions against them. You see, Excidium Planetis values the principle of innocent until proven guilty, and thus, substantive evidence is needed to convict groups of piracy. Clearly, if GESO is not aware of the true nature of these raiders, that evidence does not exist.

The excuse right now is that the negotiations with these raiders have not had 120 days yet nor submitted a Notice of Failure. At least not as far as Delegate Causer is aware.

Since we're speaking ICly-

We aren't. I am speaking OOCly about why Excidium is not doing anything ICly about the raiders. That reason is twofold:
1) There is no evidence that these are pirates as opposed to a military force.
2) If it is a military force, then, per Article 2 section B:

(II) In the event of an act of aggression between a member of the Alliance and a non-member, the Secretary-General shall appoint a team of three ambassadors to attempt to resolve the dispute peacefully. If they do not succeed within 120 days, or if they submit a Notice of Failure, members of the Alliance are obligated to defend those attacked.

Clearly, Excidium Planetis is not obligated to defend attacked GESO members until negotiations fail. And they haven't, as far as Causer is aware, because there was no IC mention of negotiations at all.

Art. 1B

Freedom of movement; unless sacrificed by allied trade command or the receiving world, all signatories shall retain free passage to their destination. Member powers shall promote freedom of movement for goods and services between worlds, and will attempt to minimize conditions that could cause an economic imbalance in intergalactic trade between member governments. Additionally, disputes between trading powers will divest to the Galactic Commerce Committee, which is overseen by the Secretary-General or a individual(s) appointed in his stead. However, as the Galactic Economic and Security Organization cannot impede upon the sovereign decisions of a power to restrict trade through its borders or interfere to an extent in any internal policy, a recourse for the determination of compensation for lost goods and services will be levied.

Art. 3(I)

To guarantee the functionality of this treaty to its fullest extent, member worlds jointly and individually by effective self-sustained capacity and mutual aid, will maintain and improve upon a collective and sufficient self defence capacity to resist armed aggression.

The Excidians don't dislike GESO. They are just reluctant to enter into a war because GESO nations are being raided. We're GESO facing total annihilation, maybe they would intervene.

Logically, the costs of mutual defense in this case outweigh the benefits.

First an OOC note - TFU's language can be...strong at times. I also don't hold anything against you for IC stuff, and hope the below never actually comes to pass since, well, discussion is nothing without some conflict.

ICly - you joined. You joined knowing that this is an alliance built on promoting free trade and mutual defence. Now when you're being asked to actually do that, protecting trade convoys and rooting out raiders, now is when you get a sudden case of isolationism? Well, we're more than willing to accommodate it - your final bill will be presented at the end of the year.

1) None of this was IC. This is the OOC thread, and I never speak ICly except in quotation marks.

2) When Excidium Planetis joined, it joined knowing it was an alliance that first and foremost pledged

to uphold the ideals of intergalactic stability, peace, economic freedom, liberty and freedom.

And one that would supposedly

strive to settle disputes amongst governments through peaceful means, and should refrain from destabilizing galactic affairs with unnecessary acts of aggression.

Attacking a group of raiders without negotiations and without proof of piracy is the very definition of destabilizing galactic affairs with unnecessary acts of aggression, and thus Excidium Planetis would not condone it.

[RawHein]

This nation is neither known to, nor recognised by GESO at this time. Until, I expect near the end of the RP, they would be regarded by the majority of members as a pirate base with civ support staff. If you wish, I can let you (as a sympathetic nation and a Triumvirii of SIU) gather intel that proves otherwise through the RP.

In the absence of evidence that these are actually pirates, Excidium Planetis would not take any offensive actions against them. You see, Excidium Planetis values the principle of innocent until proven guilty, and thus, substantive evidence is needed to convict groups of piracy. Clearly, if GESO is not aware of the true nature of these raiders, that evidence does not exist.

I operate on a somewhat different principle. It goes "if you attack our freighters, steal our stuff, resist capture, and also attack the military escorts we provided, do not be surprised when we decide we've had enough and begin striking back, to ensure you no longer can." Prisoners will be taken, and tried for piracy following interrogation.

Since we're speaking ICly-

We aren't. I am speaking OOCly about why Excidium is not doing anything ICly about the raiders.

Misunderstanding, nothing more.

That reason is twofold:

1) There is no evidence that these are pirates as opposed to a military force.

2) If it is a military force, then, per Article 2 section B:
-snip-
Clearly, Excidium Planetis is not obligated to defend attacked GESO members until negotiations fail. And they haven't, as far as Causer is aware, because there was no IC mention of negotiations at all.

Military forces, mercenary or official, act on behalf of nations. None of the raiders have so far claimed such, nor do they display any recognised flags on their hulls, nor have they requested negotiations beyond demands for tribute (including slaves) from border worlds. Therefore, they are not acting on behalf of a nation, therefore they're doing it for their own gain (supported by salvaged equipment showing up in later engagements), therefore piracy, therefore Art. 2(B) is inapplicable.

1) None of this was IC. This is the OOC thread, and I never speak ICly except in quotation marks.

When I say "ICly", I'm referring to arguments that apply to your IC nation, not you the person sitting at a keyboard. The note preceding the below was directed at [your name here], and was denoted as such.

2) When Excidium Planetis joined, it joined knowing it was an alliance that first and foremost pledged

to uphold the ideals of intergalactic stability, peace, economic freedom, liberty and freedom.

And one that would supposedly

strive to settle disputes amongst governments through peaceful means, and should refrain from destabilizing galactic affairs with unnecessary acts of aggression.

Attacking a group of raiders without negotiations and without proof of piracy is the very definition of destabilizing galactic affairs with unnecessary acts of aggression, and thus Excidium Planetis would not condone it.

No, attacking civilian freighters that have done nothing to you is an unnecessary act of aggression. So, for that matter, is demanding tribute, blockading worlds that refuse, and attacking escorts. As for us, let me ask you something - in WWII, did the Allies stop after they liberated invaded nations, even though they had technically restored Europe to the way it was? No, they went on to aggressively attack Germany, because the threat there needed to be ended. We are ensuring the liberty of our members and other world that are threatened, and the peace of the G/D border which in turn promotes economical freedom by opening up the trade routes. We don't claim it as ours, nor force any of our members to stay with threats, nor claim exclusive use of the border. We're removing a threat that thus far has done nothing to show itself as anything more than simple criminality.

[RawHein]

Also, we have an in-progress OOC thread for the RP here: viewtopic.php?f=5&t=387827 that's meant to act as a hub for information about the RP as it's hammered out.