Council of APSIA | [APSIA Councillors Only]

[Vanavoy]

I'll vote for the most recent bill.

But I have other business that I need to make the Council aware of. Here is a quote from our constitution:

Councillor;

The Councillor is the lowest rank in the Council;

The Councillor is elected publicly, via multiple polls for residents only. Puppets are not allowed to vote. Councillor elections initially comprise of primaries. Any citizen of APSIA can run for the primaries of the Councillor position. There will be bi-daily primaries until there are only two candidates left. Afterwards, the two candidates will be publicly elected in a poll that lasts two days. The winning candidate is elected into the Council of APSIA and is given authority to create embassies;

After being elected a Councillor or Elder Councillor shall remain in office for six months and then must run for re-election,

This is the only reference to "Elder Councillor" in the whole constitution. I notice that Vanavoy is of this rank, But there is no definitive purpose Of this rank (that is listed), And the rules of this rank aren't clearly stated (except for the clause that I quoted).

I would furthermore like to put forth a movement to finally do away with the "Elder Councillor" rank, And remove it from the constitution.

I will (of course) vote yes, On this.

As far as I know I got Elder Councillor simply because Nationalist Gold Uniongave me border control and poll power, I've never used my poll power and sparingly use border control (I assume abolishing the position would include giving up these powers. So I'll vote yes

[Worris]

Once again:

I feel like it shouldnt be an electoral thing its just making issues, maybe there would be no electing and anyone could do anything with this community. It seems pretty pointless to elect more people for more things. Maybe elect the first guy and keep it like that until he CTEs, and transfer it to the next guy. Voting for this is just pointless beraucracy.

--

I'll vote for the most recent bill.

But I have other business that I need to make the Council aware of. Here is a quote from our constitution:

Councillor;

The Councillor is the lowest rank in the Council;

The Councillor is elected publicly, via multiple polls for residents only. Puppets are not allowed to vote. Councillor elections initially comprise of primaries. Any citizen of APSIA can run for the primaries of the Councillor position. There will be bi-daily primaries until there are only two candidates left. Afterwards, the two candidates will be publicly elected in a poll that lasts two days. The winning candidate is elected into the Council of APSIA and is given authority to create embassies;

After being elected a Councillor or Elder Councillor shall remain in office for six months and then must run for re-election,

This is the only reference to "Elder Councillor" in the whole constitution. I notice that Vanavoy is of this rank, But there is no definitive purpose Of this rank (that is listed), And the rules of this rank aren't clearly stated (except for the clause that I quoted).

I would furthermore like to put forth a movement to finally do away with the "Elder Councillor" rank, And remove it from the constitution.

I will (of course) vote yes, On this.

Yeah.

[Worris]

On elder councillor thing:

{8}[1][0]

[Nationalist Gold Union]

Moving the elder councillor vote to a public vote.

[Rutthenia]

WARNING: THIS IS A DRAFT. Amendment no. 10, on the Creation of the APSIA Penal Code and the Judicial System
[url=%POLLURL%]Vote[/url], proposal written by Uhmericah.
ISSUE: There are no laws against criminal behavior and there are no rules outlining the procedure for a trial.
Nations of APSIA,
NOTICING That we have no laws defining criminal behavior,
CONCERNED That banjections carried out by our government officials may be biased because of this,
NOTING That punishment without a fair trial is undemocratic,
WORRIED That without official guidelines for punishment and trials it would be easy for a government official to banject a nation without reason,
SORRY Council of APSIA, I'm a really crappy writer and you'll have to edit the sh*t out of this.
On %DATE%, the Council of APSIA hereby

1. Creates the Judicial System which will include the following positions:
   
   1. Chief Justice
      1. The Chief Justice shall be in charge of all Judicial affairs.
      2. The Chief Justice shall be responsible for maintaining the Penal Code dispatch.
      3. The Chief Justice shall be elected by the nations of APSIA but first must be approved by the Council of APSIA. The Chief Justice may be impeached.
      4. There are no terms for the Cheif Justice.
   2. Justice
      1. There shall be two Justices.
      2. The Justices shall assist the Chief Justice with Judicial affairs.
      3. During trials, the Justices shall vote with the Chief Justice on the punishment.
      4. The Justices shall select the jury members for a trial.
      5. The Justices shall be elected by the nations of APSIA and may be impeached by the nations of APSIA.
      6. There are no terms for the Justices.
2. Establishes the Penal Code.
   1. The Penal Code shall be a dispatch listing acts considered to be crimes and their possible punishments.
   2. Any resident may propose a new law. The Council may edit the law but they do not have to vote to approve it. Then the public will vote on whether or not to pass the law. The same rules apply for repealing an already passed law or revising a law.
   3. The Chief Justice shall maintain the Penal Code.

[*]Procedures for a Trial shall be as follows:[list=i][*]If a person is believed to be breaking a law listed in the Penal Code they may be put on trial. A nation may only be put on trial if it is unclear if they have committed the crime or not. If there is clear evidence (for example: there are threatening posts by them on the RMB) the Justices shall decide on their punishment and carry it out.
[*]If a nation is put on trial, they shall be asked to move to a region designated as the court region. Then seven APSIA nations will be randomly selected to go to the region to vote on whether or not the nation is guilty.
[*]The accused and the prosecutor shall argue their cases on the RMB, then, after three days a poll will be created and the jury will vote on whether or not the accused is guilty.

[Worris]

WARNING: THIS IS A DRAFT. Amendment no. 10, on the Creation of the APSIA Penal Code and the Judicial System
[url=%POLLURL%]Vote[/url], proposal written by Uhmericah.
ISSUE: There are no laws against criminal behavior and there are no rules outlining the procedure for a trial.
Nations of APSIA,
NOTICING That we have no laws defining criminal behavior,
CONCERNED That banjections carried out by our government officials may be biased because of this,
NOTING That punishment without a fair trial is undemocratic,
WORRIED That without official guidelines for punishment and trials it would be easy for a government official to banject a nation without reason,
SORRY Council of APSIA, I'm a really crappy writer and you'll have to edit the sh*t out of this.
On %DATE%, the Council of APSIA hereby

1. Creates the Judicial System which will include the following positions:
   
   1. Chief Justice
      1. The Chief Justice shall be in charge of all Judicial affairs.
      2. The Chief Justice shall be responsible for maintaining the Penal Code dispatch.
      3. The Chief Justice shall be elected by the nations of APSIA but first must be approved by the Council of APSIA. The Chief Justice may be impeached.
      4. There are no terms for the Cheif Justice.
   2. Justice
      1. There shall be two Justices.
      2. The Justices shall assist the Chief Justice with Judicial affairs.
      3. During trials, the Justices shall vote with the Chief Justice on the punishment.
      4. The Justices shall select the jury members for a trial.
      5. The Justices shall be elected by the nations of APSIA and may be impeached by the nations of APSIA.
      6. There are no terms for the Justices.
2. Establishes the Penal Code.
   1. The Penal Code shall be a dispatch listing acts considered to be crimes and their possible punishments.
   2. Any resident may propose a new law. The Council may edit the law but they do not have to vote to approve it. Then the public will vote on whether or not to pass the law. The same rules apply for repealing an already passed law or revising a law.
   3. The Chief Justice shall maintain the Penal Code.

[*]Procedures for a Trial shall be as follows:[list=i][*]If a person is believed to be breaking a law listed in the Penal Code they may be put on trial. A nation may only be put on trial if it is unclear if they have committed the crime or not. If there is clear evidence (for example: there are threatening posts by them on the RMB) the Justices shall decide on their punishment and carry it out.
[*]If a nation is put on trial, they shall be asked to move to a region designated as the court region. Then seven APSIA nations will be randomly selected to go to the region to vote on whether or not the nation is guilty.
[*]The accused and the prosecutor shall argue their cases on the RMB, then, after three days a poll will be created and the jury will vote on whether or not the accused is guilty.

+1

[Hendletonia]

Agree

[Walgreens]

I disagree, I see no reason for this. A banjection would be the result of breaking of website rules or RMB rules, there's really no other reason for one.

[Noxtrem]

WARNING: THIS IS A DRAFT. Amendment no. 10, on the Creation of the APSIA Penal Code and the Judicial System
[url=%POLLURL%]Vote[/url], proposal written by Uhmericah.
ISSUE: There are no laws against criminal behavior and there are no rules outlining the procedure for a trial.
Nations of APSIA,
NOTICING That we have no laws defining criminal behavior,
CONCERNED That banjections carried out by our government officials may be biased because of this,
NOTING That punishment without a fair trial is undemocratic,
WORRIED That without official guidelines for punishment and trials it would be easy for a government official to banject a nation without reason,
SORRY Council of APSIA, I'm a really crappy writer and you'll have to edit the sh*t out of this.
On %DATE%, the Council of APSIA hereby

1. Creates the Judicial System which will include the following positions:
   
   1. Chief Justice
      1. The Chief Justice shall be in charge of all Judicial affairs.
      2. The Chief Justice shall be responsible for enforcing the laws in the Penal Code Dispatch. But that dispatch must be maintained by the Council
      3. The Chief Justice shall be elected by the nations of APSIA but first must be approved by the Council of APSIA. The Chief Justice may be impeached.
      4. There are 6 Month terms for the Cheif Justice.
   2. Justice
      1. There shall be two Justices.
      2. The Justices shall assist the Chief Justice with Judicial affairs.
      3. During trials, the Justices shall vote with the Chief Justice on the punishment.
      4. The Justices shall select the jury members for a trial.
      5. The Justices shall be elected by the nations of APSIA and may be impeached by the nations of APSIA.
      6. There are 3 month terms for the Justices.
   3. Establishes the Penal Code.
      1. The Penal Code shall be a dispatch listing acts considered to be crimes and their possible punishments.
      2. Any resident may propose a new law. The Council may edit the law but they do not have to vote to approve it. Then the public will vote on whether or not to pass the law. The same rules apply for repealing an already passed law or revising a law.
      3. The Chief Justice shall maintain the Penal Code.
2. Procedures for a Trial shall be as follows:
   1. If a person is believed to be breaking a law listed in the Penal Code they may be put on trial. A nation may only be put on trial if it is unclear if they have committed the crime or not. If there is clear evidence (for example: there are threatening posts by them on the RMB) the Justices shall decide on their punishment and carry it out.
   2. If a nation is put on trial, they shall be asked to move to a region designated as the court region. Then seven APSIA nations will be randomly selected to go to the region to vote on whether or not the nation is guilty.
   3. The accused and the prosecutor shall argue their cases on the RMB, then, after three days a poll will be created and the jury will vote on whether or not the accused is guilty.

Modified the formatting and the content. My changes are highlighted. I vot yes to this version.

[Nationalist Gold Union]

I kinda agree with Walgreens, to an extent. If the user is breaking the site rules, their fate really shouldn't be up to public jurisdiction but instead the moderators. How much of a pain would it have been to get rid of Chinkana and all of his puppets with this system in place? APSIA really doesn't have many laws in place that restrict individuals. The only cases that we could ever see in this system are that of election fraud and violations of RMB Conduct, the ladder of which we have never seen in the past. Everything else would presumably a site-wide issue (for example, spamming or sending telegrams full of harassment) and would probably be better handled by the moderators.

As I had said earlier, there are little rules that you are able to break in APSIA. And by little I mean almost none. A large court with infinite judges would lead to corruption and complications, while not doing very much work. As much as I like a fair trial, the only subject that a trial would need to be held on is defined in Amendment 7 and the trials are explained in clauses 4 and 5. Because of the uselessness of this amendment and the fact that it is combating a non-issue, I must vote against it.

[Worris]

I kinda agree with Walgreens, to an extent. If the user is breaking the site rules, their fate really shouldn't be up to public jurisdiction but instead the moderators. How much of a pain would it have been to get rid of Chinkana and all of his puppets with this system in place? APSIA really doesn't have many laws in place that restrict individuals. The only cases that we could ever see in this system are that of election fraud and violations of RMB Conduct, the ladder of which we have never seen in the past. Everything else would presumably a site-wide issue (for example, spamming or sending telegrams full of harassment) and would probably be better handled by the moderators.

As I had said earlier, there are little rules that you are able to break in APSIA. And by little I mean almost none. A large court with infinite judges would lead to corruption and complications, while not doing very much work. As much as I like a fair trial, the only subject that a trial would need to be held on is defined in Amendment 7 and the trials are explained in clauses 4 and 5. Because of the uselessness of this amendment and the fact that it is combating a non-issue, I must vote against it.

That's a very good point.

[Nationalist Gold Union]

3-[ 4 ]-2

[Rutthenia]

If we can simplify this to just basically a "jury duty" kind of thing with NGU acting as the "Chief Justice" due to him being die Führer, I'd be fine with it. Otherwise, I abstain from voting.

[Vanavoy]

Yeah I agree with NGU, I don't think we really need a judicial system at all. Even if we were to implement one I think we need to make it more simplistic. Adding a judicial system would grow the government, and the more we grow the government the more complicated things become. So I vote against amendment 10

[Nationalist Gold Union]

3-[ 3 ]-3

[Worris]

I'd like to change to -1

[Nationalist Gold Union]

2-[ 3 ]-4

[Noxtrem]

Well, Honestly. There is only one rulw that you cna break in APSIA (that isn't already a site rule) and that RMB conduct. And there is already a process for what happens when you break that rule. So I'll change my vote to a No.

[Nationalist Gold Union]

1-[ 3 ]-5

Ist tot.

[Nationalist Gold Union]

Mates, I wrote the formatting for a bill. It looks like this:

NAME OF BILL

Proposed DATE PROPOSED

Bill written by AUTHOR, edited by EDITOR

---

Foreword
Describe the reasoning and events that caused you to write this bill, as well as any comments or concerns to go along with it.

Summary of the Bill
Describe what this bill is supposed to do in a short understandable summary.

Propositions

1. Main clause
   
   1. Describing the clause
      
      1. Details on the above description
      2. Details on the above description
   2. Describing the clause
      
      1. Details on the above description
      2. Details on the above description
      3. Feel free to mix and match these lists and indentations, but it must be in a I/A/1/i/a sorting order. If you are having trouble with the formatting of these lists, contact NGU and he'll help you out

[Noxtrem]

Gentlemen, I am requesting Council Permission to write a letter the New World Union in order to re-establish stability between the regions, because it appears that they still consider the state of relations between our regions to be a crisis. I was hoping that we could work together to form a letter to their leadership.

[The Redwoods]

Nah.

[Nationalist Gold Union]

Gentlemen, I am requesting Council Permission to write a letter the New World Union in order to re-establish stability between the regions, because it appears that they still consider the state of relations between our regions to be a crisis. I was hoping that we could work together to form a letter to their leadership.

Allow me to dump some telegrams I exchanged with their founder.

Nationalist Gold Union → The Kingdom Historia
2 days 6 hours ago
viewtopic.php?f=16&t=260044#012

The Kingdom Historia → Nationalist Gold Union
1 day 18 hours ago
what is this

Nationalist Gold Union → The Kingdom Historia
1 day 18 hours ago
You threatened to report our region to the moderators for "spamming", although we never spammed your RMB. From what I saw, people were simply disagreeing with you on your RMB and you threatened to use the moderators as a weapon against us.

The Kingdom Historia → Nationalist Gold Union
1 day 17 hours ago
No some one was spamming. I was making the "Threat" so the leaders of your region would tell who ever it is to stop. And I wasnt involved with the debate though I saw the scamming and one of the spammers was making false claims against one of our members and the spammers nation is connected to yours.

Nationalist Gold Union → The Kingdom Historia
1 day 17 hours ago
I am the leader of my region. And you said "NWU is having a problem with spamming trolls coming from your region. weather its intentional or not if it continues we will report you to the moderator."
We were not spamming and you just admitted it. Read the RMB of your region and there isn't "spamming", just debate with your region members. Therefore, I come to the conclusion that you simply threatened us with moderator intervention simply because you don't like the words that the members of APSIA were saying. Shame.

The Kingdom Historia → Nationalist Gold Union
1 day 17 hours ago
Excuse me! I have no clue what your members are saying. Therefore how could I be disagree with your members.

Nationalist Gold Union → The Kingdom Historia
1 day 17 hours ago
If you have no idea what our members are saying, how would you know whether or not they are spamming? Why would you threaten to report us to the moderators if you did not know whether or not we were spamming? You are not allowed to use moderators as a weapon. You have no reason to report my regionmates, so why would you threaten to do so?

The Kingdom Historia → Nationalist Gold Union
1 day 17 hours ago
No i was referring to the debate that caused this mess. And I wasnt using the moderators as a weapon. Like I said I made the "threat" in hopes that YOU your regions leader would get your ducks in a row. For all I knew at the time that this spammer could have been just trying to stir stuff up between our region.

Nationalist Gold Union → The Kingdom Historia
1 day 17 hours ago
What spammer? What mess? There wasn't any mess and you clearly weren't there to read it. It doesn't matter why you threatened to call the moderators. All that matters is that you did it for a reason that was not related to the rules, which in itself breaks the rules.
Also, could you point out this spammer which you have referenced multiple times and also not referenced as well?

The Kingdom Historia → Nationalist Gold Union
1 day 17 hours ago
You can choose to see what ever you want but you know good goddamn well that Dublin 4 came from your region and karakshia went straight to your region when he booted as well. You also have nation in YOUR region who knows you might have a spammer in your region. We keep have abunch of ireland related nations come to our region shortly after Dublin 4 came over from your region. Some of which are now in Dublin 4's new region.
Now stop acting like noting happened.

Nationalist Gold Union → The Kingdom Historia
1 day 17 hours ago
We barely knew Dublin 4. He left our region because he was upset with all of the "pro-gun talk." He called for the banning of our region members and now he's not allowed in APSIA. He is completely unrelated to this issue. What I want to know is why you wanted to report us to the moderators and additionally, I want to see substantial evidence and proof that any APSIA members have broken a rule. Do it and come back to me with links or else I'll assume that you broke more site rules then the people who went into your RMB.

The Kingdom Historia → Nationalist Gold Union
1 day 17 hours ago
Your werent hearing me clearly. I basically was asking if you could control your region or who ever was doing. I think Dublin is a puppet. I wasnt going to report your region unless you were doing it on purpose but report the spammer. I should had been clearer I guess.

The founder of the region is a pretty immature person who lacks developed knowledge on how this website's rules work. The officers of the region are a bunch of fruitcakes who can't take opposing opinions, and attack and silence those who do so. In my opinion, this region is not one that deserves our respect. So I vote no to this.

(1-[ 6 ]-2)

[Noxtrem]

Thank you for sharing those with us NGU. That swayed my opinion quite a bit.

Well... if you would rather, we could send them a letter expressing the extreme disgust of the council and the people of APSIA. And officially cut off ties with them, and make note that we are no longer willing to cooperate with them.

I say this because so far, looks like most of us are against trying diplomacy, it also appears to me (from NGU's telegrams) that the leader of NWU is a completely incompetent. I'm willing to support cutting ties with them. We could draft the document as a group, send it to their leader.

[Worris]

Nope.