Illegal Script Usage "Predator": Punishments

[Drasnia]

What? No, no no no. That's some fucked up logic right there.

The mods are not idiots. They are not going to make this case the benchmark for all other cases. They are not going to suddenly accept a large number of appeals because some guy who doesn't' even seem to understand what Predator is confessed to using it. He made TWO posts on the DEN (iirc it was DEN) forums. There's a large difference between that and one of the career raiders that got hit by the mods for this.

Eh. Considering how even the higher-ups of RTL are suspicious of Tex's story, I probably wouldn't want to run the chance until enough evidence emerges that can conclusively confirm that Tex has never used Predator.

Until then, I will support Tex's current punishment.

Um, no . . . I've talked extensively to a person or two who were punished for Predator as well as actually have read this thread. If you could tone down the snark that would be great. I live by the principle of innocent until proven guilty (not the inverse).

I've seen nothing that would suggest Texasa is guilty of using it - even the the admission of guilt. If the person can't actually identify what they are confessing to, the confession is not very plausible.

I support the concept of "innocent until proven guilty" for real-world laws. However, NS is not real life. Since we are on NS, we're subject to the rules of the site, and considering that Tex has already been punished for using Predator, it's safe to assume he is guilty.

I think Zacharie's screencaps of what an unverified user of Predator is greeted with is pretty damning. Texasa can't be punished just for having Predator on his computer - that can't be proven by the NS Mods. He can only be punished for accessing the NS API/site with Predator. The only way to ultimately verify that he wasn't able to use Predator would be to ask Halc, but he's DOS so that ain't happening. But with the information we know about how Predator was treated, I think the Mods, especially the GP Mods who would be handling this (Sedge, CG, Mal) would understand this. There is abundant information to show that he did not use Predator.

Secondly, appeals are granted all the time. Just because somebody was originally punished doesn't mean that punishment will hold up. I guess our ideas of guilt and innocence are different. I believe their must be incontrivertible evidence to convict, whether in RL or NS.

[Ovybia]

I have an interesting new development we just discovered. According to Texasa, Gest told him to delete predator from his computer in early January when he discovered that Texasa got a copy of the software.

Texasa's story is becoming more clear now. I think I will have an appeal ready for Texasa to submit soon. Texasa never used the software and didn't even know what it did.

[RiderSyl]

I have an interesting new development we just discovered. According to Texasa, Gest told him to delete predator from his computer in early January when he discovered that Texasa got a copy of the software.

Did Texasa even know who Gest was before he appeared in this thread?

[General Knot]

I have an interesting new development we just discovered. According to Texasa, Gest told him to delete predator from his computer in early January when he discovered that Texasa got a copy of the software.

This is not even remotely true.

[Sad-States]

Even if Tex had Predator on his computer, I do not see how he would be even considered guilty as he never would have the opportunity to use it due to the safeguard made by Halcones to make it unusable to users who shouldn't have it, in his eyes. For the love of God, can everyone drop the guilty until proven innocent ideology?

If Frak was unable to crack it, I am 100% sure that Tex wouldn't be able to crack it.

Off topic: OMG ITS DRAS

[Christian Democrats]

If Frak was unable to crack it, I am 100% sure that Tex wouldn't be able to crack it.

We can safely say that, I think.

<snip>

Create a new nation and, then, make a post saying that a player should be banned. Classy.

[Sedgistan]

People need to stop attacking Right To Life for their actions here. If someone tells you they've violated the rules, it's much better to tell them to confess to us than to have a culture of covering up or even encouraging that sort of behaviour.

<snip>

Create a new nation and, then, make a post saying that a player should be banned. Classy.

It was DOS Chester Pearson.

[Christian Democrats]

Create a new nation and, then, make a post saying that a player should be banned. Classy.

It was DOS Chester Pearson.

Well, that makes sense.

[Gest II]

I have an interesting new development we just discovered. According to Texasa, Gest told him to delete predator from his computer in early January when he discovered that Texasa got a copy of the software.

Texasa's story is becoming more clear now. I think I will have an appeal ready for Texasa to submit soon. Texasa never used the software and didn't even know what it did.

A pity he didn't join until February and didn't have Skype to chat. Texasa apparently creates his stories like Keyser Soze. Good luck on the appeal, you'll need it as the powers that be are not known for their clemency.

The problem with Right to Life telling this guy to confess is that they just take at his word whatever he says, no matter how outlandish or improbable.

"Texasa, I have two more questions for you.
1. Who gave you predator?
2. Who told you to delete predator?

1.FORVERDEN
2. Gest"

Foreverden was our honorary delegate, a retired player from an old incarnation of DEN, who had and has no involvement in Gameplay.

[Reploid Productions]

It is a rather frustrating situation on our end, too. Yes, it is unlikely that Texasa was actually able to use Predator based on what we know about it, but he has stated to us more than once that he did, and that he used it in a raid. His less-than-coherent post to us about it is why we followed up with more specific questions after his initial confession. Whether he's gotten NS++ conflated with Predator, or wants the notoriety of being one of the "bad boys" who did... it's just like when we get people claiming to be a particular notorious DOS (and before anyone asks, yes that has happened a few times in the past, gods only know why anyone would think it's a good idea!)- it may not be true, but if they're claiming it, we're in the position of having to treat them like it since we can't be rewarding people for gloating/claiming to be breaking the rules.

Had his RMB post claiming to have used it been reported to us before he came to us himself, the punishment would have most likely been harsher than what has been issued. I wish the folks in RTL all the luck in their efforts to help him submit a legible appeal on this, for the exact same reasons so many of you guys are unhappy he's been smacked. It's really a crappy situation all around.

[Luziyca]

I have an interesting new development we just discovered. According to Texasa, Gest told him to delete predator from his computer in early January when he discovered that Texasa got a copy of the software.

Texasa's story is becoming more clear now. I think I will have an appeal ready for Texasa to submit soon. Texasa never used the software and didn't even know what it did.

A pity he didn't join until February and didn't have Skype to chat. Texasa apparently creates his stories like Keyser Soze. Good luck on the appeal, you'll need it as the powers that be are not known for their clemency.

The problem with Right to Life telling this guy to confess is that they just take at his word whatever he says, no matter how outlandish or improbable.

"Texasa, I have two more questions for you.
1. Who gave you predator?
2. Who told you to delete predator?

1.FORVERDEN
2. Gest"

Foreverden was our honorary delegate, a retired player from an old incarnation of DEN, who had and has no involvement in Gameplay.

So basically, how do we know then that he is lying about not using Predator? How do we know that he is telling the truth when he keeps making shit up?

The fact that his story changes more often than Stalin edits photos means we cannot be sure if Tex is even telling the truth at all. And besides, I wouldn't be surprised if the guys who were in charge of the user logs could have manipulated the logs so to make it look like Tex never had access to Predator, even if he actually did.

That is why I am hesitant to the mods lifting the punishment or even granting the appeal, apart from fear of the slippery slope, because how do we know that he is not lying about claiming that he was railroaded? How do we know that what any of what he says is true?

I think at this point, we're just going in circles. The best course of action at this point is to maybe have the thread be locked, and if an appeal manages to materialize and the mods are convinced to restore Tex's nation and lift his punishment, or not, then the mods can tell us why.

[Sad-States]

A pity he didn't join until February and didn't have Skype to chat. Texasa apparently creates his stories like Keyser Soze. Good luck on the appeal, you'll need it as the powers that be are not known for their clemency.

The problem with Right to Life telling this guy to confess is that they just take at his word whatever he says, no matter how outlandish or improbable.

"Texasa, I have two more questions for you.
1. Who gave you predator?
2. Who told you to delete predator?

1.FORVERDEN
2. Gest"

Foreverden was our honorary delegate, a retired player from an old incarnation of DEN, who had and has no involvement in Gameplay.

So basically, how do we know then that he is lying about not using Predator? How do we know that he is telling the truth when he keeps making shit up?

The fact that his story changes more often than Stalin edits photos means we cannot be sure if Tex is even telling the truth at all. And besides, I wouldn't be surprised if the guys who were in charge of the user logs could have manipulated the logs so to make it look like Tex never had access to Predator, even if he actually did.

That is why I am hesitant to the mods lifting the punishment or even granting the appeal, apart from fear of the slippery slope, because how do we know that he is not lying about claiming that he was railroaded? How do we know that what any of what he says is true?

I think at this point, we're just going in circles. The best course of action at this point is to maybe have the thread be locked, and if an appeal manages to materialize and the mods are convinced to restore Tex's nation and lift his punishment, or not, then the mods can tell us why.

For the love of God, it is clear that this lad has not used Predator. He has only made two posts on the DEN forum as stated before, he never even listed his Skype which is a huge part of the raiding community. No Skype, no raids, no advancement and most of all, no Predator. Even if he got Predator by some miracle from the Gods, he wouldn't even be able to use it due to users needed to be whitelisted by Halcones due to him not wanting for Predator to fall into everyone hands and declining the lifespan. If you read everyone else's posts, you would know this.

[Ever-Wandering Souls]

For Christ's sake, if "the people with the logs" (who were DEFENDERS, mind you, with no incentive to alter anything to protect anyone, even if those logs were any more than a guide for who the mods should look for gameside evidence on) even had any motivation to do so, why the hell would they alter them to protect some no name recruit none of us had ever even heard of before, out of all the possible people?

Jeez, use an ounce of common sense please, before you spew more random doomsaying about how any reversal here could clear other predator users .

[Block II]

I've never used or endorsed predator. I'd like the ruling against me reversed.

[Demonic Internet Bot]

I've never used or endorsed predator. I'd like the ruling against me reversed.

Same here, always used the ELITE excel based tool, but oh well.

~FR

[Block II]

I've never used elite either!

[Sygian]

I've never used elite either!

Block is just a mind reading automatic trigger himself

[Block II]

I guess I should be made illegal too! XD

[RiderSyl]

I've never used or endorsed predator. I'd like the ruling against me reversed.

Yeah, despite Block's behavior after the ruling, I've gotta say, him being punished in the initial Predator crackdown was bullshit.

[Block II]

Given that I had a clean record before this predator scandal, it's become clear that justice is subjective/biased in this game. Finding f*cks to give is difficult at this point.

I do hope the next generation of raiders take the results of this thread to heart and learn from it.

[G-Tech Corporation]

Given that I had a clean record before this predator scandal, it's become clear that justice is subjective/biased in this game. Finding f*cks to give is difficult at this point.

I do hope the next generation of raiders take the results of this thread to heart and learn from it.

Look on the bright side; maybe there will never be another generation of raiders

[McManniaa]

Given that I had a clean record before this predator scandal, it's become clear that justice is subjective/biased in this game. Finding f*cks to give is difficult at this point.

I do hope the next generation of raiders take the results of this thread to heart and learn from it.

Look on the bright side; maybe there will never be another generation of raiders

I wouldn't count on it. Groups like TBH, KGB and Hydra will carry on the torch of the divine lord Raideron, hallowed be thy name.

[Christian Democrats]

A pity he didn't join until February and didn't have Skype to chat.

Texasa says that he joined DEN in December under a different persona.

The problem with Right to Life telling this guy to confess

Ovybia suggested that he confess right after he said he used Predator.

It's really a crappy situation all around.

Indeed. We have two players in RTL working with Texasa right now on an appeal. The Senate will give its input before Texasa submits.

[G-Tech Corporation]

Look on the bright side; maybe there will never be another generation of raiders

I wouldn't count on it. Groups like TBH, KGB and Hydra will carry on the torch of the divine lord Raideron, hallowed be thy name.

I'm an avowed optimist, what can I say? Every god has their day. Who even remembers Hatmehit or Shamash these days?

[General Knot]

A pity he didn't join until February and didn't have Skype to chat.

Texasa says that he joined DEN in December under a different persona.

We know. Good luck with your appeal.