by The Great state of Atlantis » Tue May 03, 2016 10:13 am
by Crazy girl » Tue May 03, 2016 11:14 am
by [violet] » Tue May 03, 2016 4:12 pm
The Great state of Atlantis wrote:This entire actual trading/politics/going to war would subsequently have a genuine effect on the statistics
by Northern Freikur » Tue May 03, 2016 4:15 pm
[violet] wrote:The Great state of Atlantis wrote:This entire actual trading/politics/going to war would subsequently have a genuine effect on the statistics
This is the real key. At the moment, you can shape your nation however you like, and there is no real win condition. The moment nations can invade each other, conquest becomes the most visible goal, and everyone has to care about military power. That fundamentally changes everything. For a lot of people, improving military power will become the only thing they care about, and instead of issues being thorny ideological choices, they will be simple pick-the-best-military-option tests. Then instead of the broad spectrum we have today, we have a bunch of nations who are all better or worse at building their military.
I'm simplifying, and there would be mitigating things we could do, but that's the underlying issue. Trade is similar with economic power, although not quite as problematic.
by Zocra » Tue May 03, 2016 4:19 pm
by Queen Yuno » Tue May 03, 2016 10:28 pm
by Leppikania » Wed May 04, 2016 6:05 am
by The Great state of Atlantis » Wed May 04, 2016 1:06 pm
[violet] wrote:The Great state of Atlantis wrote:This entire actual trading/politics/going to war would subsequently have a genuine effect on the statistics
This is the real key. At the moment, you can shape your nation however you like, and there is no real win condition. The moment nations can invade each other, conquest becomes the most visible goal, and everyone has to care about military power. That fundamentally changes everything. For a lot of people, improving military power will become the only thing they care about, and instead of issues being thorny ideological choices, they will be simple pick-the-best-military-option tests. Then instead of the broad spectrum we have today, we have a bunch of nations who are all better or worse at building their military.
I'm simplifying, and there would be mitigating things we could do, but that's the underlying issue. Trade is similar with economic power, although not quite as problematic.
by The Great state of Atlantis » Wed May 04, 2016 1:15 pm
Leppikania wrote:Last I checked, war/trade were not going to be added by order of our Lord and Savior Max Barry. Your idea still favors the capitalist and militaristic nations over the other ones, even if it's not mandatory. That's why.
And how would it draw more attention to the forums?
by Kringalia » Wed May 04, 2016 2:20 pm
by The Great state of Atlantis » Wed May 04, 2016 2:29 pm
Kringalia wrote:I really hope this is never implemented. I can't speak for everyone, but the fact that there are no trade or war features, optional or not, is precisely why I joined NationStates in the first place.
by Kringalia » Wed May 04, 2016 4:57 pm
by The Great state of Atlantis » Thu May 05, 2016 2:34 am
Kringalia wrote:It would change the kind of game we play. NS has the charm of being a purely political game, where issues (and the WAGA, I suppose) are the only war to change a nation. There are many trade and military games out there, without the need to add one more.
by Kringalia » Thu May 05, 2016 9:09 am
The Great state of Atlantis wrote:No it wouldn't as it wouldn't be a mandatory thing, somehow it appears that you fail to grasp this crucial aspect. If, say, nation X grows really economically powerful but opts to go out, then that same nation's power would mean nothing with regard to the rest of the game. Simply put, that nation would simply revert to the original gameplay. And even if the game would somehow be changed, how terrible would that be? Change is good. Standing still isn't.
Kringalia wrote:the fact that there are no trade or war features, optional or not
by The Great state of Atlantis » Thu May 05, 2016 9:38 am
Kringalia wrote:The Great state of Atlantis wrote:No it wouldn't as it wouldn't be a mandatory thing, somehow it appears that you fail to grasp this crucial aspect. If, say, nation X grows really economically powerful but opts to go out, then that same nation's power would mean nothing with regard to the rest of the game. Simply put, that nation would simply revert to the original gameplay. And even if the game would somehow be changed, how terrible would that be? Change is good. Standing still isn't.Kringalia wrote:the fact that there are no trade or war features, optional or not
It's not about how optional your features would be. My problem is I don't want NS to be a war and trade game. [It's not about what you want. It's about making it livelier than it currently is. And ad nauseam: you can always stay out of it when you don't like it.] I like it because it lacks those features, because the game itself is about politics. [Politics, trade and war are all intertwined.] Change is good only insofar as there is a point to it. [There is a point: making it livelier than it currently is.] Your proposed changes would be a terrible thing [How so? Moreover, I wouldn't use such big words so lightly.] for NationStates, removing its uniqueness and turning it into one more generic war and trade game, of which there are many. It would do you good to take a look at why nations keep playing this game, and what has made it successful for over thirteen years. It definitely hasn't been war and trade.
by Kringalia » Thu May 05, 2016 10:17 am
by Commonwealth of Hank the Cat » Thu May 05, 2016 10:19 am
by Kringalia » Thu May 05, 2016 10:27 am
by Gigaverse » Thu May 05, 2016 10:40 am
Art-person(?). Japan liker. tired-ish.
Student inlinguistics???. On-and-off writer.
MAKE CAKE NOT stupidshiticanmakefunof.born in, raised in and emigrated from vietbongistan lolol
Operating this polity based on preferences and narrative purposes
clowning incident | clowning incident | bottom text
can produce noises in (in order of grasp) vietbongistani, oldspeak
and bonjourois (learning weebspeak and hitlerian at uni)
by The Great state of Atlantis » Thu May 05, 2016 12:14 pm
Kringalia wrote:If you want to play a war and trade game, why don't you go play a war and trade game? NS "refuses to die", as you say, because it has a vibrant community that likes to play it's different aspects, and has expanded beyond the initial issues-answering aspect since it was launched in 2002. If you simply can't understand what it is that people like about NationStates, then that's a problem. It's meant to be different from the rest of the market. And that's a good thing.
by Thomas Branson III » Thu May 05, 2016 1:05 pm
by Commonwealth of Hank the Cat » Thu May 05, 2016 1:11 pm
by The Great state of Atlantis » Thu May 05, 2016 1:30 pm
Commonwealth of Hank the Cat wrote:I'm just thinking, what if the Warzones (like any nation entering a warzone) had like a special version, where you automatically are forced to use the military things, BUT if you win against the current delegate, that delegate is removed from power, all the delegate votes are removed (like delegate votes are made completely useless) so it will be a true warzone, the toughest are at the top.
I'm sorry I'm talking like this would be a easy thing to program, I understand that this would take a great deal of effort to do this. It's just, it would help RP regions to settle things, we've all seen the real poor regional RPs, you know, the world war RPs where you are rping as your main nation. I think it would make roleplaying easier and more fun.
by Arkadacia » Thu May 05, 2016 1:34 pm
by Commonwealth of Hank the Cat » Thu May 05, 2016 1:40 pm
Arkadacia wrote:Raiders are already an excuse for trolling / annoyance / being a general pain in the arse, warfare being added into the game would be obnoxious, invasive, and annoying. That and it's been denied repeatedly. If you want a political simulator with warfare, trade, and all that good stuff, go buy a grand strategy game and have fun. The base NS experience isn't, hasn't, and never will be, a complex and deep game.
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