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by South Sacred Sauce » Tue May 03, 2016 3:11 pm
by Solorni » Tue May 03, 2016 4:17 pm
Christian Democrats wrote:Solorni wrote:How is it strange, he is critiquing the NPO for its governance yet his region is governed in a way that most would find repulsive.
In what way is it governed repulsively? Form vs. content, Rachel. I'm criticizing TP for its form of government, and you're criticizing RTL for its ideological content. Hence, Guy calls your attack an ad hominem. He's right. The two things are separate matters.
Region Form of Government Content of Government The Pacific One-party system, dictatorship Francoism (minus the name now) Right to Life Multi-party system, representative democracy Advocacy for prenatal rights
In particular, I referenced to Cormac my preference for on-site elections, which are practiced in a region that I founded.
by Lazarus CoS » Tue May 03, 2016 4:43 pm
by Christian Democrats » Tue May 03, 2016 5:02 pm
Solorni wrote:Christian Democrats wrote:In what way is it governed repulsively? Form vs. content, Rachel. I'm criticizing TP for its form of government, and you're criticizing RTL for its ideological content. Hence, Guy calls your attack an ad hominem. He's right. The two things are separate matters.
Region Form of Government Content of Government The Pacific One-party system, dictatorship Francoism (minus the name now) Right to Life Multi-party system, representative democracy Advocacy for prenatal rights
In particular, I referenced to Cormac my preference for on-site elections, which are practiced in a region that I founded.
This assumes a difference between form and content in NS. In reality they are both aspects of content and culture.
Solorni wrote:It is telling that you put Francoism into your category of content despite Francoism essentially determining the form of TP. Thus, to me at least the determined culture and governance are intertwined and equal. Both are determined by either the community or by individuals in a more authoritarian fashion. In the case of your region, you determined the content in a fashion perhaps even more authoritarian than TP. So its obvious that they can be compared in this manner.
Solorni wrote:I thus don't believe it's a personal attack to rightly point out the hypocrisy of your statements when you have based your region on an ideology seen as repulsive in real life let alone just an in game one. Also , I have not given my own view on it.
Leo Tolstoy wrote:Wrong does not cease to be wrong because the majority share in it.
by DrWinner » Tue May 03, 2016 6:05 pm
Crazy girl wrote:DrWinner wrote:Very well, I'll be sure to contact the author for permission, then. Thank you for the warning.
No worries. Reading back I realise I sounded a bit more scary than intended, I needed to get my cooking going. But yeah, ask permission before using (parts of) someone else's proposal, or you could get dinged for plagiarism. 'sides, you might want to give drafting your very own proposal a go?
by The Bruce » Tue May 03, 2016 6:28 pm
North East Somerset wrote:This would have stood a good chance of passing if the author wasn't Cormac, because NPO were evidently making progress, so this is a bit of a setback.
So soon after the Osiris coup, blatant overreach, but not at all surprising. This is someone who has almost single-handedly turned the Gameplay world on it's head, no one cares about R/D anymore - it's just a question of where you stand on Cormac.
What else can you say really, the actual substance of the resolution is pretty much irrelevant in the present context, so it would be more sensible to discuss that at a future date under milder conditions.
by Deliana » Tue May 03, 2016 6:36 pm
Christian Democrats wrote:Solorni wrote:How is it strange, he is critiquing the NPO for its governance yet his region is governed in a way that most would find repulsive.
In what way is it governed repulsively? Form vs. content, Rachel. I'm criticizing TP for its form of government, and you're criticizing RTL for its ideological content. Hence, Guy calls your attack an ad hominem. He's right. The two things are separate matters.
Region Form of Government Content of Government The Pacific One-party system, dictatorship Francoism (minus the name now) Right to Life Multi-party system, representative democracy Advocacy for prenatal rights
In particular, I referenced to Cormac my preference for on-site elections, which are practiced in a region that I founded.
by California Prime » Tue May 03, 2016 7:05 pm
by Consular » Tue May 03, 2016 8:41 pm
by Guy » Tue May 03, 2016 9:13 pm
Pergamon wrote:John Turner wrote:-snip-
Is this still about the Security Council Resolution or about how we do things in the Pacific?
This shouldn't be of any concern here and I find it disturbing and disgraceful on how some of you are acting to our Emperor. As Pacifican, I feel insulted to some extend.
Leave alone all the Dictator references and whatnot..
All these claims completely unjustified and are - if I can state it right now - made by people which aren't Pacificans at all. Amusing isn't it?
Where is there even the respect for the souvereignity of the Pacific? Do we even have a word to say, when it comes on how we want our regional government to be? - Or do we have to bend to those ridiculous epistemes that are literally imposed at us in here, by some people?
Our Emperor, was right: He would win an open election within the Pacific twice a day! It is the way we want to be governed. We value, against all odds our Meritocracy that prevailed longer than any other government in this game until today. I doubt that most of you would understand what the Meritocracy is about.
It's definitely not democratic and thus no hilarious popularity contest. But I tell you what it is: It is performance-oriented. And thus it is anything but stagnant and oppressive: It is rewarding. It values contributions to the community. It values loyalty. It values duty. Those are mertis that seem to be a foreign concept to a wide amount of players here, but these are merits we value.
Pierconiums endorsements are not given to him, just because. It is a sign. A sign that the nations of the Pacific stand behind their rightful Delegate and behind the New Pacific Order, that made our region prosperous for ages.
I am neither impressed by your pointless argumentation, nor intimidated. After all, I am just disappointed on how my region is displayed here.
This being said, I will, with foremost reason and goodwill ignore people like you in the future and anyone else that ridicules the Pacific, our community, our way of governance or our Souvereign.
Hail Pacifica. o/
[violet] wrote:Never underestimate the ability of admin to do nothing.
by The Church of Satan » Tue May 03, 2016 10:09 pm
California Prime wrote:Let's lay this out on the line. The Pacific has done everything required to earn a repeal of this condemnation, but the anti-New Pacific Order crowd will do everything they can to keep this condemnation active simply because they don't approve of the form of Regional Government that we the citizens of The Pacific have agreed to. Apparently they think that they should be in position to try to bully us into adopting a regional government more to their outsider liking. These partisan hacks wage a war against our region's right to govern ourselves as we see fit and yet they have the stones to think that they are the ones shining a beacon on freedom and liberty. Typical.
by Pierconium » Tue May 03, 2016 11:39 pm
The Church of Satan wrote:California Prime wrote:Let's lay this out on the line. The Pacific has done everything required to earn a repeal of this condemnation, but the anti-New Pacific Order crowd will do everything they can to keep this condemnation active simply because they don't approve of the form of Regional Government that we the citizens of The Pacific have agreed to. Apparently they think that they should be in position to try to bully us into adopting a regional government more to their outsider liking. These partisan hacks wage a war against our region's right to govern ourselves as we see fit and yet they have the stones to think that they are the ones shining a beacon on freedom and liberty. Typical.
It's easy to dismiss all the naysayers as bullies, but those that disapprove with the NPO's form of governance don't represent all of the opposition. It doesn't change the fact that the NPO did invade a GCR in the hopes of conquering it and even your emperor hoped it would succeed. Not to mention, despite apologizing for it, the NPO rewarded both Stujenske and Pergamon for their part in it. You're going to have to actually try to put some effort into your posts if you want anyone to take you seriously.
by Pergamon » Wed May 04, 2016 12:13 am
The Church of Satan wrote:It's easy to dismiss all the naysayers as bullies, but those that disapprove with the NPO's form of governance don't represent all of the opposition. It doesn't change the fact that the NPO did invade a GCR in the hopes of conquering it and even your emperor hoped it would succeed. Not to mention, despite apologizing for it, the NPO rewarded both Stujenske and Pergamon for their part in it. You're going to have to actually try to put some effort into your posts if you want anyone to take you seriously.
by Alvecia » Wed May 04, 2016 2:01 am
by Ghenslund » Wed May 04, 2016 4:41 am
by Cobeidha » Wed May 04, 2016 6:27 am
by Sandaoguo » Wed May 04, 2016 8:51 am
North East Somerset wrote:This would have stood a good chance of passing if the author wasn't Cormac, because NPO were evidently making progress, so this is a bit of a setback.
by Pierconium » Wed May 04, 2016 10:16 am
by Sandaoguo » Wed May 04, 2016 10:50 am
Pierconium wrote:Sandaoguo wrote:Would it? I don't think TSP cast its votes against because Cormac wrote it.
I'm not sure of your point. The vote is losing by a 2:1 margin at present and TSP only accounts for a small percentage of that difference.
Also, TSP voted fairly late (considering the apparent pattern of certain large votes to stack the early tally) and did not really have that much influence on the current totals.
We in the Pacific have no ill-will toward TSP and acknowledge their right to vote as Lazarus tells them to, but I do not believe TSP was a deciding factor in this instance and would likely (unless the vote is given in coordination earlier with some of the other anti-NPO regions) not be a factor in future votes. Although, again, we would welcome TSP's support.
by Pierconium » Wed May 04, 2016 11:13 am
Sandaoguo wrote:Pierconium wrote:I'm not sure of your point. The vote is losing by a 2:1 margin at present and TSP only accounts for a small percentage of that difference.
Also, TSP voted fairly late (considering the apparent pattern of certain large votes to stack the early tally) and did not really have that much influence on the current totals.
We in the Pacific have no ill-will toward TSP and acknowledge their right to vote as Lazarus tells them to, but I do not believe TSP was a deciding factor in this instance and would likely (unless the vote is given in coordination earlier with some of the other anti-NPO regions) not be a factor in future votes. Although, again, we would welcome TSP's support.
TSP is #7 in the number of votes our delegate has. So, no, it's not irrelevant.
That's not even what my post what about, anyways. There's no evidence that 3,500+ players were persuaded to vote against repealing the condemnation because Cormac's name is attached to it. It's far more likely they just don't think The Pacific deserves to have its condemnation repealed.
by Crazy girl » Wed May 04, 2016 11:57 am
Sandaoguo wrote:There's no evidence that 3,500+ players were persuaded to vote against repealing the condemnation because Cormac's name is attached to it. It's far more likely they just don't think The Pacific deserves to have its condemnation repealed.
by Aaaah Snaaaake » Wed May 04, 2016 12:41 pm
by Glen-Rhodes » Wed May 04, 2016 1:21 pm
by Sciongrad » Wed May 04, 2016 1:38 pm
Glen-Rhodes wrote:Y'all, I practically invented criticizing the lemming effect. You can't check me on that.
It's just not credible to think that Cormac being the author is why this repeal is failing. The NPO isn't popular. That's why it's failing.
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by Pierconium » Wed May 04, 2016 1:41 pm
Glen-Rhodes wrote:Y'all, I practically invented criticizing the lemming effect. You can't check me on that.
It's just not credible to think that Cormac being the author is why this repeal is failing. The NPO isn't popular. That's why it's failing.
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