what does that have to do with white supremacy, the idea that whites are inherently and immutably better than other races?
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by Alyakia » Wed Dec 16, 2015 9:12 pm
by The Zamirites » Wed Dec 16, 2015 9:14 pm
by Lyras » Wed Dec 16, 2015 9:15 pm
Alyakia wrote:Lyras wrote:
A particular problem when Islam promotes the use of taqiyya (-deception-), which is not only justified but commendable, if it advances the cause of Islam (Q 3:28, 5:28).
http://www.timesofisrael.com/declassifi ... ida-image/
In an October 2010 letter to a top lieutenant, bin Laden complains about Faisal Shahzad, the militant recruited by the Pakistani Taliban to set off a car bomb in New York’s Times Square. The May 2010 bombing failed. During his trial, Shahzad — a Pakistani who gained US citizenship — told the court he “didn’t mean it” when he took his American citizenship oath, which includes a vow not to harm the United States.
Bin Laden said lying about an oath breaks Islamic law.
“This is not the kind of lying to the enemy that is permitted. It is treachery,” bin Laden wrote. He told his lieutenant to take it up with Hakimullah Mehsud, the leader of the Pakistani Taliban, and ensure it didn’t happen again.
just a counter-example
Mokastana: Then Lyras happened.
Allanea: Wanting to avoid fighting Lyras' fuck-huge military is also a reasonable IC consideration
TPF: Who is stupid enough to attack a Lyran convoy?
Sumer: Honestly, I'd rather face Doom's military with Doom having a 3-1 advantage over me, than take a 1-1 fight with a well-supplied Lyran tank unit.
Kinsgard: RL Lyras is like a real life video game character.
Ieperithem: Eighty four. Eighty four percent of their terrifyingly massive GDP goes directly into their military. And they actually know how to manage it. It's safe to say there isn't a single nation that could feasibly stand against them if they wanted it to die.
Yikes. Just... Yikes.
by Yumyumsuppertime » Wed Dec 16, 2015 9:17 pm
by Yumyumsuppertime » Wed Dec 16, 2015 9:18 pm
by Prussia-Steinbach » Wed Dec 16, 2015 9:20 pm
by MERIZoC » Wed Dec 16, 2015 9:21 pm
Kauthar wrote:Kraylandia wrote:Well, as a left winger, I want to know what is all of your opinions on issues like Same Sex marriage and transgender people?
Honestly, I'm against same-sex marriage, but the state shouldn't have a say in marriage, leave it to the church/mosque/synagogue or what ever. I find transgenders weird and I don't agree with them, but they don't affect me in anyway so I don't really care.
I'm not theocratic or a supremacist.
by Lyras » Wed Dec 16, 2015 9:26 pm
Yumyumsuppertime wrote:Ugatoo wrote:Never heard of "white privilege"?
Yes.
White privilege is the observation by many that due to white supremacist beliefs (both overt and unconscious), there is an institutionalized and largely unrecognized system of racism in this country that benefits white people while disadvantaging black people, Latinos, and others who are not white. It's not white supremacy. It's a comment on the effects of white supremacy. Actual white supremacists insist that no such thing exists, and that whites are actually getting the short end of the stick nowadays.
Try again.
Mokastana: Then Lyras happened.
Allanea: Wanting to avoid fighting Lyras' fuck-huge military is also a reasonable IC consideration
TPF: Who is stupid enough to attack a Lyran convoy?
Sumer: Honestly, I'd rather face Doom's military with Doom having a 3-1 advantage over me, than take a 1-1 fight with a well-supplied Lyran tank unit.
Kinsgard: RL Lyras is like a real life video game character.
Ieperithem: Eighty four. Eighty four percent of their terrifyingly massive GDP goes directly into their military. And they actually know how to manage it. It's safe to say there isn't a single nation that could feasibly stand against them if they wanted it to die.
Yikes. Just... Yikes.
by Jochistan » Wed Dec 16, 2015 9:26 pm
Lyras wrote:Geilinor wrote:Which is a problem. Trump says it will be "until we figure out what the hell is going on". And anyway, how do you know for sure what religion someone believes in?
A particular problem when Islam promotes the use of taqiyya (-deception-), which is not only justified but commendable, if it advances the cause of Islam (Q 3:28, 5:28).
by Alyakia » Wed Dec 16, 2015 9:27 pm
Lyras wrote:Yumyumsuppertime wrote:
Yes.
White privilege is the observation by many that due to white supremacist beliefs (both overt and unconscious), there is an institutionalized and largely unrecognized system of racism in this country that benefits white people while disadvantaging black people, Latinos, and others who are not white. It's not white supremacy. It's a comment on the effects of white supremacy. Actual white supremacists insist that no such thing exists, and that whites are actually getting the short end of the stick nowadays.
Try again.
Under law, at least here in Australia, whites actually DO get the short end of the stick. There are a number of acts of legislation that deliberately provide for the provision of services to non-white groups, and explicitly disallow European-descent people from utilising them. There are plenty of European-descent people who need said services, but pandering to political correctness has lead to said minority groups being granted preferential treatment, on the basis of their race.
This being racist, in my reading of it.
Don't tell me it doesn't happen. I was a youth worker. I've watched it happen in front of me. I've had bureaucrats tell it to my face, repeatedly. It certainly does happen, and is not an invention of the evil, bigoted right wing, out to get the poor and repressed minorities.
by Patrick OConner » Wed Dec 16, 2015 9:28 pm
Under law, at least here in Australia, whites actually DO get the short end of the stick. There are a number of acts of legislation that deliberately provide for the provision of services to non-white groups, and explicitly disallow European-descent people from utilising them. There are plenty of European-descent people who need said services, but pandering to political correctness has lead to said minority groups being granted preferential treatment, on the basis of their race.
This being racist, in my reading of it.
Don't tell me it doesn't happen. I was a youth worker. I've watched it happen in front of me. I've had bureaucrats tell it to my face, repeatedly. It certainly does happen, and is not an invention of the evil, bigoted right wing, out to get the poor and repressed minorities.
by Alyakia » Wed Dec 16, 2015 9:31 pm
Patrick OConner wrote:This seems interesting. Let me start with I am a conservative libertarian that believes in things like Freedom of speech and the right to bear arms. I also hate thinks like SJWs, political correctness and thought police. Those being people that think that only they are right and seek to enforce that on others. Also I hate overly sensitive peoples that find everything offensive (or can get offended at the slightest thing.) Also I like traditional values as well. Also I love my country which is america.
by Ugatoo » Wed Dec 16, 2015 9:31 pm
by Alyakia » Wed Dec 16, 2015 9:32 pm
by Lyras » Wed Dec 16, 2015 9:32 pm
Alyakia wrote:Lyras wrote:
Under law, at least here in Australia, whites actually DO get the short end of the stick. There are a number of acts of legislation that deliberately provide for the provision of services to non-white groups, and explicitly disallow European-descent people from utilising them. There are plenty of European-descent people who need said services, but pandering to political correctness has lead to said minority groups being granted preferential treatment, on the basis of their race.
This being racist, in my reading of it.
Don't tell me it doesn't happen. I was a youth worker. I've watched it happen in front of me. I've had bureaucrats tell it to my face, repeatedly. It certainly does happen, and is not an invention of the evil, bigoted right wing, out to get the poor and repressed minorities.
hmm... is there any reason why the non-white groups in australia might need special attention in regard to services?
Mokastana: Then Lyras happened.
Allanea: Wanting to avoid fighting Lyras' fuck-huge military is also a reasonable IC consideration
TPF: Who is stupid enough to attack a Lyran convoy?
Sumer: Honestly, I'd rather face Doom's military with Doom having a 3-1 advantage over me, than take a 1-1 fight with a well-supplied Lyran tank unit.
Kinsgard: RL Lyras is like a real life video game character.
Ieperithem: Eighty four. Eighty four percent of their terrifyingly massive GDP goes directly into their military. And they actually know how to manage it. It's safe to say there isn't a single nation that could feasibly stand against them if they wanted it to die.
Yikes. Just... Yikes.
by Ugatoo » Wed Dec 16, 2015 9:34 pm
White privilege is a set of advantages and/or immunities that white people benefit from on a daily basis beyond those common to all others. White privilege can exist without white people's conscious knowledge of its presence and it helps to maintain the racial hierarchy in this country
by Alyakia » Wed Dec 16, 2015 9:35 pm
Lyras wrote:Alyakia wrote:
hmm... is there any reason why the non-white groups in australia might need special attention in regard to services?
Proportionally, yes.
But I see no just reason why said provision of services could not be race-neutral, allowing all who have need of them to access it. I accept and appreciate that minority groups who have had it tough under previously existing governments have, generally, lower social demographics. But is it not more reasonable, again, to offer the services to all who require them?
by Yumyumsuppertime » Wed Dec 16, 2015 9:36 pm
Lyras wrote:Yumyumsuppertime wrote:
Yes.
White privilege is the observation by many that due to white supremacist beliefs (both overt and unconscious), there is an institutionalized and largely unrecognized system of racism in this country that benefits white people while disadvantaging black people, Latinos, and others who are not white. It's not white supremacy. It's a comment on the effects of white supremacy. Actual white supremacists insist that no such thing exists, and that whites are actually getting the short end of the stick nowadays.
Try again.
Under law, at least here in Australia, whites actually DO get the short end of the stick. There are a number of acts of legislation that deliberately provide for the provision of services to non-white groups, and explicitly disallow European-descent people from utilising them. There are plenty of European-descent people who need said services, but pandering to political correctness has lead to said minority groups being granted preferential treatment, on the basis of their race.
This being racist, in my reading of it.
Don't tell me it doesn't happen. I was a youth worker. I've watched it happen in front of me. I've had bureaucrats tell it to my face, repeatedly. It certainly does happen, and is not an invention of the evil, bigoted right wing, out to get the poor and repressed minorities.
by Patrick OConner » Wed Dec 16, 2015 9:37 pm
by Alyakia » Wed Dec 16, 2015 9:39 pm
Ugatoo wrote:Alyakia wrote:
but that's not what the concept white privilege isWhite privilege is a set of advantages and/or immunities that white people benefit from on a daily basis beyond those common to all others. White privilege can exist without white people's conscious knowledge of its presence and it helps to maintain the racial hierarchy in this country
by Lyras » Wed Dec 16, 2015 9:40 pm
Alyakia wrote:Lyras wrote:
Proportionally, yes.
But I see no just reason why said provision of services could not be race-neutral, allowing all who have need of them to access it. I accept and appreciate that minority groups who have had it tough under previously existing governments have, generally, lower social demographics. But is it not more reasonable, again, to offer the services to all who require them?
it would be nice if the provision was race-neutral but you have already admitted that the need and cause for that need is not race-neutral, so it does lead us into some unpleasant territory. it would be nice if we could give it to everyone, but do those resources actually exist? what are some specific programs you were thinking of?
Mokastana: Then Lyras happened.
Allanea: Wanting to avoid fighting Lyras' fuck-huge military is also a reasonable IC consideration
TPF: Who is stupid enough to attack a Lyran convoy?
Sumer: Honestly, I'd rather face Doom's military with Doom having a 3-1 advantage over me, than take a 1-1 fight with a well-supplied Lyran tank unit.
Kinsgard: RL Lyras is like a real life video game character.
Ieperithem: Eighty four. Eighty four percent of their terrifyingly massive GDP goes directly into their military. And they actually know how to manage it. It's safe to say there isn't a single nation that could feasibly stand against them if they wanted it to die.
Yikes. Just... Yikes.
by Ugatoo » Wed Dec 16, 2015 9:43 pm
Alyakia wrote:Ugatoo wrote:
yes. that doesn't mean white people are innately superior to every group of people. it just means that by and large a white person, in say, the US, will have an easier life and more opportunities than a non-white person, because we spent centuries specifically making it that way. i like to use apartheid as my admittedly rather extreme example for the next part, there were well off black people and homeless poor white people but that doesn't change the fact that by and large being being white was clearly more advantageous and you would be a fool to deny it. and yes, there are countries where being white has different advantages and in many cases severe disadvantages, we do not live in those places.
just covering my bases here because white privilege discussion get toxic fast.
by Patrick OConner » Wed Dec 16, 2015 9:45 pm
yes. that doesn't mean white people are innately superior to every group of people. it just means that by and large a white person, in say, the US, will have an easier life and more opportunities than a non-white person, because we spent centuries specifically making it that way. i like to use apartheid as my admittedly rather extreme example for the next part, there were well off black people and homeless poor white people but that doesn't change the fact that by and large being being white was clearly more advantageous and you would be a fool to deny it. and yes, there are countries where being white has different advantages and in many cases severe disadvantages, we do not live in those places.
just covering my bases here because white privilege discussion get toxic fast.
by Alyakia » Wed Dec 16, 2015 9:48 pm
Lyras wrote:Alyakia wrote:
it would be nice if the provision was race-neutral but you have already admitted that the need and cause for that need is not race-neutral, so it does lead us into some unpleasant territory. it would be nice if we could give it to everyone, but do those resources actually exist? what are some specific programs you were thinking of?
The classic example in my experience is the provision of legal aid. In Australia, the right to legal representation in court is not inviolate. I have had a case where a penniless, unemployed, uneducated, homeless, breastfeeding and pregnant young woman (~18, if I recall correctly) was DENIED legal aid. I almost lost my proverbial in fury, and asked upon what possible basis legal aid would be denied to this most-cliche-of-needy cases. I was informed that the other party (whom my client was seeking an apprehended violence order against) had sought Aboriginal Legal Service representation.
ALS is a form of legal aid, granted only and exclusively to Aboriginals. Legal aid won't represent both sides of a dispute. Said aboriginal was doing ok, in every respect. Job, car, family, etc.
Race trumped need.
It's wrong.
Ugatoo wrote:Alyakia wrote:
yes. that doesn't mean white people are innately superior to every group of people. it just means that by and large a white person, in say, the US, will have an easier life and more opportunities than a non-white person, because we spent centuries specifically making it that way. i like to use apartheid as my admittedly rather extreme example for the next part, there were well off black people and homeless poor white people but that doesn't change the fact that by and large being being white was clearly more advantageous and you would be a fool to deny it. and yes, there are countries where being white has different advantages and in many cases severe disadvantages, we do not live in those places.
just covering my bases here because white privilege discussion get toxic fast.
Yes it does. Any system that tries to place value of people based on their skin colour is a racist system.
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