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by Wallenburg » Tue Nov 24, 2015 11:58 pm
by The Hobbesian Metaphysician » Wed Nov 25, 2015 12:00 am
Unified Heartless States wrote:Personly I hope for the worst riots yet, Chicago is currupt as fuck, though I doubt it since it's so close to TGing. That and I like watching dumb black people set fire to there homes. It's an early Christmas for me, just watched protesters attack a wall of bicycle and bike cops. If shit starts getting real, I'm recording it and I'll post it for you guys.
by The Hobbesian Metaphysician » Wed Nov 25, 2015 12:02 am
Mavorpen wrote:Well, that's sad.
Like, why even try to hide things like this in a period when it's commonplace for these types of things to get revealed to the public anyway?
by Exelia » Wed Nov 25, 2015 12:42 am
Yumyumsuppertime wrote:
Michael Brown doesn't have a goddamned thing to do with this thread. That shooting was arguably justified, though whatever the Justice Department may have said, it's going to remain controversial in activist circles for years due to the actual proven racism and corrupt police culture in the Baltimore department. This shooting was blatantly unjustified, and only came to light because one person was willing to anonymously let the right people know that dashcam footage existed.
by Costa Fierro » Wed Nov 25, 2015 12:58 am
Wallenburg wrote:Am I a bad person if I want to make a fast food joke?
As to the murder, I'm confused as to how it could be first degree. That requires premeditation. This seems far more like second degree murder.
by Wallenburg » Wed Nov 25, 2015 1:06 am
Costa Fierro wrote:Wallenburg wrote:Am I a bad person if I want to make a fast food joke?
Well, you could say McDonald isn't lovin' it now.As to the murder, I'm confused as to how it could be first degree. That requires premeditation. This seems far more like second degree murder.
Premeditated would mean the officer knew where to find this person and was actively seeking to murder him. If anything, a manslaughter charge should be brought against the officer in question, because continuing to shoot a suspect after they've been shot and lying on the ground goes beyond using reasonable force.
I don't quite understand but the source in the OP said that McDonald had a knife so...is there still a legal justification for discharging your firearm?
by Gauthier » Wed Nov 25, 2015 1:13 am
Wallenburg wrote:Costa Fierro wrote:
Well, you could say McDonald isn't lovin' it now.
Premeditated would mean the officer knew where to find this person and was actively seeking to murder him. If anything, a manslaughter charge should be brought against the officer in question, because continuing to shoot a suspect after they've been shot and lying on the ground goes beyond using reasonable force.
I don't quite understand but the source in the OP said that McDonald had a knife so...is there still a legal justification for discharging your firearm?
He is lying on the ground, immobile, with multiple gun wounds, as the officer continues to shoot him. No, there is absolutely no justification.
by Alyakia » Wed Nov 25, 2015 1:15 am
Dragonia Re Xzua wrote:At this point, I've just stopped caring about who is doing what, who shot and killed who else. It's happening so frequently that I just give up trying to count the bodies of officers and civilians on the streets regarding the shootings.
by Alyakia » Wed Nov 25, 2015 1:16 am
Gauthier wrote:Wallenburg wrote:He is lying on the ground, immobile, with multiple gun wounds, as the officer continues to shoot him. No, there is absolutely no justification.
And despite video evidence, there are still going to be people who say Thug Had It Coming and that the police was justified.
This makes the third Fruitvale-style police execution I've read about.
by Toronina » Wed Nov 25, 2015 2:27 am
by The Archregimancy » Wed Nov 25, 2015 3:02 am
Unified Heartless States wrote:Personly I hope for the worst riots yet, Chicago is currupt as fuck, though I doubt it since it's so close to TGing. That and I like watching dumb black people set fire to there homes. It's an early Christmas for me, just watched protesters attack a wall of bicycle and bike cops. If shit starts getting real, I'm recording it and I'll post it for you guys.
by Costa Fierro » Wed Nov 25, 2015 3:41 am
Toronina wrote:There is a difference between shooting to neutralize a target, and shooting them 16 times. I would hate to see a repeat of Ferguson where a murderer went free.
by Internationalist Bastard » Wed Nov 25, 2015 4:13 am
by Costa Fierro » Wed Nov 25, 2015 4:32 am
Internationalist Bastard wrote:16 shots? Ok, that kid was either on some powerful stuff or the cop really wanted him dead.
by Washington Resistance Army » Wed Nov 25, 2015 4:34 am
Costa Fierro wrote:Internationalist Bastard wrote:16 shots? Ok, that kid was either on some powerful stuff or the cop really wanted him dead.
The kid fell within the first two shots. The officer basically emptied the rest of his magazine into the body (or the road surrounding McDonald) and reloaded and was about to empty another magazine into the body before another officer stopped him.
by Yumyumsuppertime » Wed Nov 25, 2015 4:39 am
Internationalist Bastard wrote:16 shots? Ok, that kid was either on some powerful stuff or the cop really wanted him dead.
by Costa Fierro » Wed Nov 25, 2015 4:41 am
Washington Resistance Army wrote:Costa Fierro wrote:
The kid fell within the first two shots. The officer basically emptied the rest of his magazine into the body (or the road surrounding McDonald) and reloaded and was about to empty another magazine into the body before another officer stopped him.
Something that happens far too often tbh, I can't count how many times I've heard of a cop firing a full magazine at someone when they're down after 2 or 3 shots.
by Washington Resistance Army » Wed Nov 25, 2015 4:48 am
Costa Fierro wrote:Washington Resistance Army wrote:
Something that happens far too often tbh, I can't count how many times I've heard of a cop firing a full magazine at someone when they're down after 2 or 3 shots.
I really can't quite grasp what it is with American police and their aggression. In New Zealand (with a population of 4.5 million people, basically the same as either Kentucky or Louisiana), the police have shot dead three people so far this year, two of whom were armed. In Kentucky, 17 people have been shot dead. The figure rises to 24 in Louisiana.
What is with the massive discrepancy in how many are killed? Is it because firearms are more prevalent? Is it because crime rates are higher?
by Costa Fierro » Wed Nov 25, 2015 4:53 am
Washington Resistance Army wrote:Costa Fierro wrote:
I really can't quite grasp what it is with American police and their aggression. In New Zealand (with a population of 4.5 million people, basically the same as either Kentucky or Louisiana), the police have shot dead three people so far this year, two of whom were armed. In Kentucky, 17 people have been shot dead. The figure rises to 24 in Louisiana.
What is with the massive discrepancy in how many are killed? Is it because firearms are more prevalent? Is it because crime rates are higher?
I truly have no idea, I like to place it on poor training and possibly because of how prevalent guns are (thus making cops wonder if the people they're dealing with are armed etc) but it's probably a lot more complex than that.
by Tsaraine » Wed Nov 25, 2015 5:57 am
by Trumpostan » Wed Nov 25, 2015 6:11 am
Yumyumsuppertime wrote:It's not even rogue police who are the problem so much as it is a police culture that allows them to get away with these things.
Actually, no. Definition of Premeditated Murder "The crime of wrongfully and intentionally causing the death of another human being (also known as murder) after rationally considering the timing or method of doing so, in order to either increase the likelihood of success, or to evade detection or apprehension". The first two shots fired dropped the suspect, then there was a pause (premeditation could be as short as a couple of seconds). Seconds later, 14 other shots were fired. So "timing and method," and "the "increasing the likelihood success," applies here. Then the cop systematically lied, erased evidence, and recruited other officers in collusion of his false narrative; which allows the "...evade detection or apprehension..." part of the definition to be applied.
by Napkiraly » Wed Nov 25, 2015 8:05 am
Costa Fierro wrote:Toronina wrote:There is a difference between shooting to neutralize a target, and shooting them 16 times. I would hate to see a repeat of Ferguson where a murderer went free.
This case and Ferguson are not the same. Brown attacked the police officer beforehand and tried to steal his firearm. In any officer's mind, stealing, or even attempting to steal, an officer's firearm automatically escalates the situation. As the officer was without a taser, there was really other option if Brown tried to attack him again, which he did.
With McDonald, I am aware in the article sourced in the OP stated that McDonald was armed with a knife, but did nothing with the knife that could have harmed any officer in any way. Therefore the discharge of the firearm, let alone the sixteen shots that were fired, were unnecessary and unreasonable.
Is it murder? No. Murder implies premeditation and I doubt that the officer that shot McDonald was driving around specifically to look for McDonald to kill him. You know what they charge people for negligent death? Manslaughter. McDonald's death was not an accident but nor was it premeditated and that means that a charge of manslaughter should be brought against the officer that killed him.
However, given that the police tried to cover it up and the record of police officers actually making it to trial, I wouldn't hold my breath. The fact that the department paid the family off before the officer was even charged leads me to suspect that a proper course of justice won't be found here.
by Alvecia » Wed Nov 25, 2015 8:08 am
Napkiraly wrote:Costa Fierro wrote:
This case and Ferguson are not the same. Brown attacked the police officer beforehand and tried to steal his firearm. In any officer's mind, stealing, or even attempting to steal, an officer's firearm automatically escalates the situation. As the officer was without a taser, there was really other option if Brown tried to attack him again, which he did.
With McDonald, I am aware in the article sourced in the OP stated that McDonald was armed with a knife, but did nothing with the knife that could have harmed any officer in any way. Therefore the discharge of the firearm, let alone the sixteen shots that were fired, were unnecessary and unreasonable.
Is it murder? No. Murder implies premeditation and I doubt that the officer that shot McDonald was driving around specifically to look for McDonald to kill him. You know what they charge people for negligent death? Manslaughter. McDonald's death was not an accident but nor was it premeditated and that means that a charge of manslaughter should be brought against the officer that killed him.
However, given that the police tried to cover it up and the record of police officers actually making it to trial, I wouldn't hold my breath. The fact that the department paid the family off before the officer was even charged leads me to suspect that a proper course of justice won't be found here.
Murder does not imply premeditation, only first degree murder does. Which is why I'm wondering why they're charging the guy with first degree murder, as they'll have to prove that it was all premeditated.
by Gauthier » Wed Nov 25, 2015 8:09 am
Napkiraly wrote:Costa Fierro wrote:
This case and Ferguson are not the same. Brown attacked the police officer beforehand and tried to steal his firearm. In any officer's mind, stealing, or even attempting to steal, an officer's firearm automatically escalates the situation. As the officer was without a taser, there was really other option if Brown tried to attack him again, which he did.
With McDonald, I am aware in the article sourced in the OP stated that McDonald was armed with a knife, but did nothing with the knife that could have harmed any officer in any way. Therefore the discharge of the firearm, let alone the sixteen shots that were fired, were unnecessary and unreasonable.
Is it murder? No. Murder implies premeditation and I doubt that the officer that shot McDonald was driving around specifically to look for McDonald to kill him. You know what they charge people for negligent death? Manslaughter. McDonald's death was not an accident but nor was it premeditated and that means that a charge of manslaughter should be brought against the officer that killed him.
However, given that the police tried to cover it up and the record of police officers actually making it to trial, I wouldn't hold my breath. The fact that the department paid the family off before the officer was even charged leads me to suspect that a proper course of justice won't be found here.
Murder does not imply premeditation, only first degree murder does. Which is why I'm wondering why they're charging the guy with first degree murder, as they'll have to prove that it was all premeditated.
by Ifreann » Wed Nov 25, 2015 8:51 am
Gauthier wrote:Napkiraly wrote:Murder does not imply premeditation, only first degree murder does. Which is why I'm wondering why they're charging the guy with first degree murder, as they'll have to prove that it was all premeditated.
Taking a page from Bob McCullough's playbook, deliberately throwing a case to get one of their own off the hook. By charging the asshole with Murder 1, they're guaranteeing that sufficient standards will not be met (with coverups, leaks and destruction of evidence if needs be) and so a jury will fail to convict.
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