[CANCELLED] NationStates World Fair 2015

by **Glen-Rhodes** » Sat Oct 31, 2015 1:59 pm

Oh whatever. Get over Unibot. This is ridiculous.

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by **Guy** » Sat Oct 31, 2015 4:27 pm

Jakker wrote:
Kringalia wrote:We appreciate that, but we accepted to organise the World Fair because we enjoy cultural events, not to be subjected to gameplay toxicity. We realise most people meant not harm and had genuine concerns, but there is a reason why we have ended up wanting no part in it. I am sure the original Committee will begin planning the World Fair at their earliest convenience.

I didn't really see any toxicity. Fact of the matter is that all of the criticism was centered around Unibot. Based on his past behavior, many people don't believe he should be even playing the game anymore. And every region and player needs to realize the backlash that they will receive from associating themselves with Uni.

Unfortunately, Kringalia and Charles were put in the middle of this all, but this was all because of Unibot.

No really, this is bullshit.

You can't both say they deserve it for associating with Unibot, and that the shit that you subjected them to is unfortunate. Either you think they did something wrong, or you realise you were an ass and apologise for it.

Before I'm jumped, this isn't a defense of Unibot. It's a defense of two people who only wanted to contribute to the wider NS culture, and what they received was shit for it because the wrong person suggested to them that they do so.

Everyone could've gone by this a whole lot more nicely -- such as, for example, rather than promoting boycotts, talk with them to incorporate those previously involved in the planning. Try to consider how other people are going to feel when you attack them and their work.

by **Cormac Stark** » Sat Oct 31, 2015 4:49 pm

Guy wrote:<snip>

Cry me a river, Guy. I'm subjected to worse pretty much anytime I post in the Gameplay forum, as are many others. Your "this isn't a defense of Unibot" rings pretty hollow when the only time you can bring yourself to ever get worked up about Gameplay "toxicity" is when it involves Unibot. Where are you when people are maligning Gradea, Nephmir, et al.? Probably chuckling about it on IRC.

By now we're all familiar with The Rejected Realms' and specifically your high tolerance for Unibot's bad behavior, but yes, this really was all about Unibot and the fact that he hand selected organizers to succeed him instead of consulting his previous co-organizers. I don't think anyone who had an issue with this strongly dislikes Kris or Cere, and this would have received the same opposition had Unibot chosen two entirely different people. This was about Unibot, plain and simple.

by **Consular** » Sat Oct 31, 2015 5:14 pm

Well, I hope everyone is happy.

by **Todd McCloud** » Sat Oct 31, 2015 5:24 pm

There will be a fair in 2015 - do not worry.

by **Almonaster Nuevo** » Sat Oct 31, 2015 5:58 pm

Kringalia wrote:
In recent days there has been some criticism regarding the current composition of the World Fair Committee. Charles and I accepted an invitation from Unibot to organise this event due to our interest in culture and cooperation. It is not our intention to engage in legitimacy arguments with others or to constantly respond to criticism and suspicion from gameplayers.

It is with that in mind that Charles and I relinquish our positions in the Committee, cancel any related organisation that had been made by this point as part of the upcoming World Fair and wish the original Committee best of luck with the organisation of the same.

Thank you,

Kris Kringle and Charles Cerebella

I understand and sympathize. I was very pleased to see a Worlds Fair announcement, and to see you leading it. I'm sure you've put in a lot of work to get this far, and I'd like to thank you both for that.

You've walked into a shitstorm you didn't deserve. I would have been happy to see you continue, but I can understand why you feel it is best to walk away at this point. I'd like to ask you to re-consider. In particular, please keep an open mind towards the option of joining forces with Todd et al if (as I expect) they invite you to do so.

Once again, thank you.

by **Todd McCloud** » Sat Oct 31, 2015 6:10 pm

We've spoken to both Kring and Cere and still hope they will join us. Unfortunately, they were caught in the middle of this and certainly didn't deserve to be put in the position that they were. We hold no ill will of course and would love for them to come on. But they have told us they're actually glad to be relieved of the duty since they both cited heavy workloads. And it is a rather tough thing to organize; it takes a lot of planning and time. We respect their decision, but it's really the old mantra - the more the merrier, so we hope they will reconsider, especially since they're good folks to have in on it.

by **Benjamin Mark** » Sat Oct 31, 2015 6:16 pm

Todd, if you need an organizer, I'll be more than happy to do it.

by **Kringalia** » Sat Oct 31, 2015 6:25 pm

Charles indeed had an increased workload. I did not have that problem. I declined a seat on the Committee because, with all due respect, I believe a Committee composed of experienced gameplayers is a step in the wrong direction for the World Fair, an event that for its own sake should be managed by individuals with records in cultural affairs, not gameplay politics. I have no doubt current members have good intentions, but I cannot in good conscience be a part of that. I have found that avoiding gameplay is the best way for me to have an enjoyable game experience, something that proved difficult throughout the course of this thread.

by **Consular** » Sat Oct 31, 2015 6:59 pm

Todd McCloud wrote:There will be a fair in 2015 - do not worry.

I have precisely zero confidence in the current group of organisers. But I am happy to be surprised, regardless of how unlikely I think that is to happen.

by **Todd McCloud** » Sat Oct 31, 2015 7:55 pm

Consular wrote:
Todd McCloud wrote:There will be a fair in 2015 - do not worry.

I have precisely zero confidence in the current group of organisers. But I am happy to be surprised, regardless of how unlikely I think that is to happen.

Your optimism displayed since the start of this thread has certainly been an inspiration to everyone.

by **Shadoke** » Sat Oct 31, 2015 8:16 pm

Way to absolutely rip apart a group of players dedicated to making a fun time :clap:

.

In all seriousness, I look forward to the fair

by **Alustrian** » Sat Oct 31, 2015 10:04 pm

to see Kris and Cere caught in the crossfire here.

Todd, McM, Elu - this incident has raised the bar for this WF. I look forward to the truly magnificent event that we all now expect

by **Guy** » Sat Oct 31, 2015 11:09 pm

Cormac Stark wrote:
Guy wrote:<snip>

Cry me a river, Guy. I'm subjected to worse pretty much anytime I post in the Gameplay forum, as are many others. Your "this isn't a defense of Unibot" rings pretty hollow when the only time you can bring yourself to ever get worked up about Gameplay "toxicity" is when it involves Unibot. Where are you when people are maligning Gradea, Nephmir, et al.? Probably chuckling about it on IRC.

By now we're all familiar with The Rejected Realms' and specifically your high tolerance for Unibot's bad behavior, but yes, this really was all about Unibot and the fact that he hand selected organizers to succeed him instead of consulting his previous co-organizers. I don't think anyone who had an issue with this strongly dislikes Kris or Cere, and this would have received the same opposition had Unibot chosen two entirely different people. This was about Unibot, plain and simple.

I'm only here because TRR was invited and was looking forward to participate in this WF. I'm here to defend two people who I thought could do a good job at it, not Unibot.

Whatever your feelings are towards him, Kris and Cere did not deserve to be treated this way. The fact that you agree that it's got nothing to do with them only illustrates my point. Judge Kris and Cere by their actions, not others'.

I am saddened that you have chosen to use these deeply personal issues that came to light a few months ago to attack TRR and myself. There was a very big effort to treat them with the requisite sensitivity. It's really not an appropriate matter to propgaganise around, and if you wish to discuss it further with me, you are welcome to do so.

I am thankful to Todd for extending the invitation to Kris and Cere. I find it disappointing that Kris is not willing to consider helping with the WF, as I believe he has a lot to contribute to it. Walking out won't be helpful.

by **United States of Natan** » Sat Oct 31, 2015 11:13 pm

why was this cancelled?

by **Cormac Stark** » Sun Nov 01, 2015 12:25 am

Kringalia wrote:
Charles indeed had an increased workload. I did not have that problem. I declined a seat on the Committee because, with all due respect, I believe a Committee composed of experienced gameplayers is a step in the wrong direction for the World Fair, an event that for its own sake should be managed by individuals with records in cultural affairs, not gameplay politics. I have no doubt current members have good intentions, but I cannot in good conscience be a part of that. I have found that avoiding gameplay is the best way for me to have an enjoyable game experience, something that proved difficult throughout the course of this thread.

Many of the "experienced gameplayers" also have strong records in cultural affairs. Todd, in particular, has at least as much of a cultural background as he does a gameplay background. Meanwhile, Cere has at least as much of a gameplay background as he has a cultural background, and you yourself have served as a Feeder Delegate. This is not to mention Unibot's extensive gameplay background, which far eclipses any cultural contribution he has ever made to any region. It's odd to me that the first time we're hearing from you that the World Fair shouldn't be managed by "experienced gameplayers" is now, after Unibot is "gone," even though it has always been managed by "experienced gameplayers."

That level of complete B.S. politicking is, by the way, indicative of an experienced gameplayer.

Consular wrote:I have precisely zero confidence in the current group of organisers. But I am happy to be surprised, regardless of how unlikely I think that is to happen.

Why? Because they aren't from Albion? :roll:

Shadoke wrote:Way to absolutely rip apart a group of players dedicated to making a fun time .

Guy wrote:Whatever your feelings are towards him, Kris and Cere did not deserve to be treated this way. The fact that you agree that it's got nothing to do with them only illustrates my point. Judge Kris and Cere by their actions, not others'.

Treated like what? The only criticism people in this thread have had is that Unibot didn't have the right to choose Kris and Cere, and that the World Fair's organization should be altered to be more fair and inclusive toward prior committee members. Nobody has attacked Kris or Cere, nobody has suggested that they aren't competent enough to also be good co-organizers. Nobody has even said they shouldn't be co-organizers, only that Unibot didn't have the right to pick them to the exclusion of previous committee members. From page one of this thread onward, critics of Unibot unilaterally making this decision, myself included, have stated that we have no problem with Kris and Cere as co-organizers as long as previous co-organizers were also included.

The only comment I've been able to find in this thread that was critical of either Kris or Cere rather than Unibot and the decisions he made, prior to this post, was this one:

Cormac Stark wrote:Everyone knows that Unibot selected his successors to organize this World Fair, and at least one of those successors cannot be trusted to keep him from being involved in future organization due to their previous cozy political relationship with each other in TSP.

That is the only one I've been able to find after re-reading the entire thread. Contrast that with the other side:

If people are going to continue insisting that Cere and Kris have been mistreated in this thread, you need to start producing actual evidence of mistreatment from the thread, because just criticizing the way they were selected and insisting on more inclusive World Fair organization isn't mistreatment of Cere or Kris.

by **Consular** » Sun Nov 01, 2015 3:18 am

Todd McCloud wrote:
Consular wrote:I have precisely zero confidence in the current group of organisers. But I am happy to be surprised, regardless of how unlikely I think that is to happen.

Your optimism displayed since the start of this thread has certainly been an inspiration to everyone.

Yeah... Ok, I can admit where I'm being unfair. I wasn't in the best frame of mind when I posted that. I apologise and wish you and the others the best -- I'd still love for the fair to be an awesome event regardless of who is organising it.

by **Ambrella** » Sun Nov 01, 2015 3:35 am

At least its been resolved. Please let me know if there's anything I can do to help... or anyone I can coerce to help.

by **Todd McCloud** » Sun Nov 01, 2015 5:18 am

Ambrella wrote:At least its been resolved. Please let me know if there's anything I can do to help... or anyone I can coerce to help.

We will certainly let folks know. I think we're going to let things settle for a few days, then come together and start pooling a few names. If anyone wants to help, they can definitely let us know and we will consider them.

by **Aenglaland** » Sun Nov 01, 2015 5:28 am

Really looking forward to this.

by **Levivania** » Sun Nov 01, 2015 8:29 am

Has this actually been canceled?

by **Glen-Rhodes** » Sun Nov 01, 2015 8:40 am

Cormac Stark wrote:I don't think anyone who had an issue with this strongly dislikes Kris or Cere, and this would have received the same opposition had Unibot chosen two entirely different people. This was about Unibot, plain and simple.

You know, I'm aware of pretty much everything you guys have against Unibot, or at least more than enough to have a grip on why you all hate him so much. You have your reasons, and some of them are reasonable. But, frankly, you're all handling it in a terrible way. You don't burn the world down about it. That's just destructive behavior. You get over it and don't interact with him. Avoiding and demanding the destruction of everything remotely connected to Unibot through nth-level nodes is just ridiculous, and makes you all paranoid for no actual reason. Unibot passing the torch to Kris and Cere did not taint anything. Your own toxic behavior tainted it, and made these two upstanding players not even want to contribute to the one event a year where we all cooperate. Get over yourselves.

Who cares who sets up the forums? That's literally all it is. The World Fair doesn't even need advertisement anymore, and when it did, Unibot was the one doing almost all of it. To Todd and other organizers, yes this was Unibot's event. This is a guy who put far too many hours of his life into NationStates, and that extended well into organizing the past World Fairs. He's well within his rights to pass the torch, and not tell any of you, because it's not as if the work you put into the past fairs was all that extensive. Some of you need to get over your incessant need to reassure your elite status by having your fingers in everything.

by **Cormac Stark** » Sun Nov 01, 2015 4:44 pm

Glen-Rhodes wrote:You know, I'm aware of pretty much everything you guys have against Unibot, or at least more than enough to have a grip on why you all hate him so much. You have your reasons, and some of them are reasonable. But, frankly, you're all handling it in a terrible way. You don't burn the world down about it. That's just destructive behavior. You get over it and don't interact with him. Avoiding and demanding the destruction of everything remotely connected to Unibot through nth-level nodes is just ridiculous, and makes you all paranoid for no actual reason. Unibot passing the torch to Kris and Cere did not taint anything. Your own toxic behavior tainted it, and made these two upstanding players not even want to contribute to the one event a year where we all cooperate. Get over yourselves.

Okay, I'm tired of dancing around this for fear of getting a warning, then looking like the bad guy because half of NationStates Gameplay still doesn't know what we're talking about. But I don't have a choice, because what we have against Unibot cannot be discussed here because he has been smart enough to confine this despicable behavior to off-site communities, and because some people in our off-site communities still aren't taking the problem seriously.

The grievance we have is a more than reasonable grievance to have, and no, just ignoring him and getting over it isn't sufficient. It isn't sufficient because some in our off-site communities still tolerate him, which gives him openings to still involve himself in off-site communities, and thus exposure to new players or players who aren't aware of his behavior who might end up suffering from it. This is a serious issue and the casual way that you and some others approach it is appalling. Given that his behavior takes place off-site, the only way to deal with it is to insist that he cannot participate in our off-site communities and events. This means not only direct participation, but the kind of covert, behind the scenes participation he has specialized in for years.

by **Shadoke** » Sun Nov 01, 2015 5:04 pm

While I understand your point Cormac, what you are trying to allow is Unibot's notorious shadow engulf two entirely different individuals. Given that you think these once close individuals to Unibot, you think that he will have the oppurtunity to assault new players again, and I will say you are counting your chickens before they hatch. You should look how you are making Kris and Cere feel, completely and utterly like shit, and is that worth it in your search for isolating Unibot?

by **Consular** » Sun Nov 01, 2015 5:33 pm

While I respect that the moderators wouldn't appreciate you discussing off site issues in detail here, basically as it stands every accusation you have is hearsay Cormac. I'm not going to base my opinion on people from such. Unibot is ridiculously ideological, dogmatic to a fault, and his personality is divisive, but I've never seen any inappropriate behaviour that warrants the reaction some of you have to him.

[CANCELLED] NationStates World Fair 2015

Re: NationStates World Fair 2015

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