The same shit everyone else does. People generally leave prison at some point, you see.
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by Ifreann » Thu Aug 13, 2015 7:04 am
by Non Conformists » Thu Aug 13, 2015 7:10 am
Stellonia wrote:As I said before, I support the concept of prisons that use hard labor, as they are detrimental to crime, rehabilitating for criminals, and cost-efficient.
by The Empire of Pretantia » Thu Aug 13, 2015 7:14 am
by The Serbian Empire » Thu Aug 13, 2015 7:18 am
by Ifreann » Thu Aug 13, 2015 7:30 am
Non Conformists wrote:Stellonia wrote:As I said before, I support the concept of prisons that use hard labor, as they are detrimental to crime, rehabilitating for criminals, and cost-efficient.
Additionally, convicted felons are understood to have incurred a debt to society for their antisocial activities. A prison sentence is more a societal reparation than arbitrary punishment, in most democratic cultures anyhow. Unpaid labor in this instance cannot be considered slavery, as the prisoner is indebted to the state.
I was thinking about while in jail.
The Serbian Empire wrote:Back on the Chain Gang... I'd support convicts cleaning the road side.
by Internationalist Bastard » Thu Aug 13, 2015 7:33 am
by Rusozak » Thu Aug 13, 2015 7:37 am
by Ifreann » Thu Aug 13, 2015 7:40 am
Rusozak wrote:Wages? Optional labor? Making them pay back to the society they wronged and leech off of is the least we can do, instead of letting them rotting in a cell, eating food and using meds paid for by the people they hurt.
Ifreann wrote:So why can't people just pay off their debts with money?
by Stellonia » Thu Aug 13, 2015 7:41 am
Ifreann wrote:Rusozak wrote:Wages? Optional labor? Making them pay back to the society they wronged and leech off of is the least we can do, instead of letting them rotting in a cell, eating food and using meds paid for by the people they hurt.Ifreann wrote:So why can't people just pay off their debts with money?
by Cetacea » Thu Aug 13, 2015 7:42 am
Ifreann wrote:Community service or optional work programmes can probably serve to help rehabilitate people, but that should be the only purpose. Prisoners shouldn't be used as a source of free labour for the state.BK117B2 wrote:I am supportive of prisoners working to pay the costs they incur.
Prisoners don't incur any costs. Prisons incur costs. And the idea of having prisoners labour to fund prisons is a terrible in every possible way.
by Internationalist Bastard » Thu Aug 13, 2015 7:42 am
Ifreann wrote:Rusozak wrote:Wages? Optional labor? Making them pay back to the society they wronged and leech off of is the least we can do, instead of letting them rotting in a cell, eating food and using meds paid for by the people they hurt.Ifreann wrote:So why can't people just pay off their debts with money?
by Ifreann » Thu Aug 13, 2015 7:44 am
by Rusozak » Thu Aug 13, 2015 7:44 am
Ifreann wrote:Rusozak wrote:Wages? Optional labor? Making them pay back to the society they wronged and leech off of is the least we can do, instead of letting them rotting in a cell, eating food and using meds paid for by the people they hurt.Ifreann wrote:So why can't people just pay off their debts with money?
by Internationalist Bastard » Thu Aug 13, 2015 7:44 am
by Non Conformists » Thu Aug 13, 2015 7:47 am
Ifreann wrote:Non Conformists wrote:Additionally, convicted felons are understood to have incurred a debt to society for their antisocial activities. A prison sentence is more a societal reparation than arbitrary punishment, in most democratic cultures anyhow. Unpaid labor in this instance cannot be considered slavery, as the prisoner is indebted to the state.
So why can't people just pay off their debts with money?
by The Empire of Pretantia » Thu Aug 13, 2015 7:49 am
I was thinking about while in jail.
Nothing, obviously.
by Ifreann » Thu Aug 13, 2015 8:00 am
Cetacea wrote:Ifreann wrote:Community service or optional work programmes can probably serve to help rehabilitate people, but that should be the only purpose. Prisoners shouldn't be used as a source of free labour for the state.
Prisoners don't incur any costs. Prisons incur costs. And the idea of having prisoners labour to fund prisons is a terrible in every possible way.
Why should prisoners enjoy free accommodation and services gained due to their criminal activity without any expectation that they contribute labour?
Criminal activity is a choice which communities must "support" via law enforcement, courts and prisons not to mention additional services required by the prisoners family and the prisoner themselves on release from jail. That community impact creates a debt on top of the immediate debt owed to the victim of the crime.
I have no problem with Prisons being payed
but then they should also be required to pay for all the goods and services they are receiving including catered meals, rehabilitation, recreation activities, monitoring, victim restitution etc etc.
Prisoners being payed for the work that the unemployed can do on tp of their free accomdation and free services either disincentivizes work or creates incentives for criminal offending
by The Empire of Pretantia » Thu Aug 13, 2015 8:07 am
Ifreann wrote:What happens if they refuse to pay, or refuse to labour? Kill them? Set them free? Increase their sentence?
by Ifreann » Thu Aug 13, 2015 8:14 am
Rusozak wrote:Ifreann wrote:
Prison labor ensures they pay for their crimes equally, with social and economic standing before being convicted holding no weight or giving advantage. A poor inmate and a rich inmate who committed the same crimes under the same circumstances pay for those crimes the same way. It's not just for the community they harmed, but for themselves and as a negative incentive for staying out of jail.
Non Conformists wrote:Ifreann wrote:So why can't people just pay off their debts with money?
In most cases, the convicted dont have the means to redress the damages and court costs incurred by their actions and prosecution. Its an inversion of the phenomenon that sends those fined for misdemeanors to jail in lieu of payment.
The old saying; "If you cant do the time, dont do the crime" could also be translated "If you dont have the dime, dont do the crime".
Ifreann wrote:So people who do have the money can just write a cheque and be set free from prison?
Nothing, obviously.
But it's their money, and they need it now!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HX0fIi3H-es
by The Empire of Pretantia » Thu Aug 13, 2015 8:27 am
by Ifreann » Thu Aug 13, 2015 8:29 am
That's a crime.
But muh justice!
by Teemant » Thu Aug 13, 2015 8:42 am
Ifreann wrote:Community service or optional work programmes can probably serve to help rehabilitate people, but that should be the only purpose. Prisoners shouldn't be used as a source of free labour for the state.BK117B2 wrote:I am supportive of prisoners working to pay the costs they incur.
Prisoners don't incur any costs. Prisons incur costs. And the idea of having prisoners labour to fund prisons is a terrible in every possible way.
by Cetacea » Thu Aug 13, 2015 8:43 am
Ifreann wrote:but then they should also be required to pay for all the goods and services they are receiving including catered meals, rehabilitation, recreation activities, monitoring, victim restitution etc etc.
What happens if they refuse to pay, or refuse to labour? Kill them? Set them free? Increase their sentence?.
by The Empire of Pretantia » Thu Aug 13, 2015 8:43 am
Teemant wrote:Ifreann wrote:Community service or optional work programmes can probably serve to help rehabilitate people, but that should be the only purpose. Prisoners shouldn't be used as a source of free labour for the state.
Prisoners don't incur any costs. Prisons incur costs. And the idea of having prisoners labour to fund prisons is a terrible in every possible way.
Where you put criminals then?
by Teemant » Thu Aug 13, 2015 8:46 am
Prussia-Steinbach wrote:Cetacea wrote:does telling Prisoners that they can either be confined to their cells or work in the prison vege garden which supplies the foodbanks in the surrounding commities constitute such labour? What about programmes that include recycling old tyres or processing pet food?
What if at the end of their time in the gardens they are issued with a qualification in basic horticulture?
I'm fully in support of such Work programmes
Consistent solution: Abolish prisons.
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