Argument Thread OOC Future Tech Only

[Arthropoda Ingens]

> Implying that Solar Communes cares about pedantic generalizations and detracting from the main subject of the previous quoted post

I just gave an example of an effective method of creating natural g-force during flight.

http://www.fourmilab.ch/cship/craft.html

http://www.projectrho.com/rocket/rocket3u.html

You don't need to break proven and tested laws of science given enough economy of scale and development in a scientifically plausible universe to have something able of simulating gravity.

Hey guys I can read the internet, therefore I'll incessantly quote it to make myself feel smart without spending any effort on considering context.

On a related note, I had to giggle when you mentioned 'No handwaving' and 'No making up random stuff' together with continuous 1 g acceleration. You've got to handwave physics somewhere, boy. Whether it's for thoroughly impossible energy densities to get the ridiculous exhaust velocity required, a shipborn bag of holding to store all the reaction mass (Preferably without it actually adding to the ship's mass), or vaguely inconsistent applications of gravity manipulation is irrelevant - you're fucking physics somewhere.

Saying that you aren't raping physics because you don't use $Black_Box but acceleration to get some pseudo-gravity is rather like saying that you totally weren't raping that chick because you used a condom.

You don't want to fuck physics in the ass, you'll have to restrict yourself to MT or less. If you believe you're not fucking physics exactly as thoroughly as a random Star Wars or Culture player by pretending to be 'Realistic' via ProjectRho copy & paste, you're deluding yourself.

tl;dr: Using the correct equations but filling them in with absurd numbers ain't realistic, and your delusions concerning 'No handwaving' are, at best, hilarious on the Saeed al-Sahhaf level.

[Clamparapa]

Five easy steps to have gravity in space without handwaving inertia or creating a Minovsky.

1) Design all your spacecrafts with a vertical layout of decks, as if they were the floors of a building, rather than as if they were decks of a seaborne ship.

2) Place the main engines in a perpendicular orientation of thrust to the decks

3) Travel at 1g acceleration most times.

4) ???

5) Profit

Bah. That ain't no fun. I like to have fun and be creative with FT. 'Tis why I joined it and am veering slowly away from MT. So ya, I use gravity manipulation. Grav Generators, spinning cylinders, etc. Makes it so I don't have to spend time reading a bunch of stuff I don't understand. Hell, I love gravity and everything about it (that and electricity) and I do know a bit about it, but not enough to go into detail about my ships and make a MT explanation about them. Like I said, I joined FT not because of its MT explanations about everything; I joined FT because of its FT explanations about everything

[Solar Communes]

GUYS I AM ALWAYS RIGHT YOU DISAGREE WITH ME SO YOU SUCK

Serious business. Fucking serious business.

Seriously, I'll do whatever I want and I never was ignored because I don't pull through the conventional tropes of SciFi. And it is not handwaving. Who are you? Seriously, you just came in and seem totally bent on going against anyone who goes against your way. I have RPed with nearly everybody regardless of whether x or y is more realistic because I'm not a pedant who keeps making posts claiming to ignore everyone who goes against the way I want for things to look like, so what is the point?

Why is it so important for you to keep such crusade against any attempts to make FT at least seem a bit more convincing or against my decision to have made something that goes against the most overused clichés and conventions? Did I hurt your feelings? Is there something else? Do you have a grudge with the author of Atomic Rocket?

Really, you are starting to look like a certain self-blowharding PhD in "Temporal Mechanics" of the past when arguing why his Chronomancy shouldn't be IGNORED. Then show your Proper PhDs, prove that you know what you're talking about instead of shoving your weight in thin air as you claim that never a spacecraft will have access to a sufficiently mass and volume-efficient form of energy to accelerate at 1g.

And what if it doesn't?

I don't care. Also, I'll quote this pearl of wisdom.

You don't want to fuck physics in the ass, you'll have to restrict yourself to MT or less.

I see. Every author, every futurologist, every Alternate history writer, every literary work of prediction of the future fucks physics in the ass.

After reading this, I'm now sure I can't even bother arguing further with you.

[Xiscapia]

>.<

*carefully edges away from above argument*

I've got a couple of general questions:

1) If I were to build a Matrioshka Brain, what would be an effective way of defending such a structure? I would be using the Dyson swarm model, rather than the traditional "shell" one. I saw something from Wikipedia that looked like it might have some potential:

A shell (or component, should a Dyson swarm be the design model used) would absorb energy radiated onto its inner surface, utilize that energy to power its computer systems, and re-radiate the energy outwards.

Could that be used as a weapon? Instead of simply radiating the energy out into space, could it be focused into cannon mounts and used against an attacking warship? Admittedly, the size of these "swarm" structures are huge, 1.0 × 10⁷ kilometers according to the diagram in the article, I'd imagine it would take a serious amount of firepower to destroy just one, but the structure probably won't have any defending warships around it, as the people who are going to be building it would integrate themselves into the structure and withdraw from the universe into V.R. once the thing is complete. Also note that the star system this would take place it would be completely empty aside from the star itself, as all the materials available (planets, moons, asteroids, comets, ect.) would be consumed to construct the Brain.

2) One of my concept nations will partially use biological technology, including organic starships, instead of more conventional machines. I've got a few basic ideas down, but I'm running into problems concerning weapons systems, FTL drives and propulsion. Can anyone help me, possibly over MSN or the NS IRC channel?

[The Fedral Union]

I should point out the amount of times I got bitched out about an M brain idea on MSN by various people. Why do you need it? Just suspend an AI culture style in hyper space, faster than light processing and all the space you'd want. The out side doses not have to be as big as the inside .

Also on a more realistic note why waste resources on that, computer technology is getting smaller granted there might be a limit to how small they can get. (On the order of quantum or molecular computers.) But its just a waste of resources, there is a point where you don't need that much processing power.

[Xiscapia]

The Brain is going to be a plot point in a planned RP. Also, I do sort of think it needs that much space and computing power -it's going to be providing perfectly realistic virtual reality simulators to a population of millions if not billions of people, all at the same time, indefinitely. Even if the computers themselves are small -and they will be, because that's what the concept calls for- there's still the issue of maintaining the bodies, and eventually, the mind/memory/personality cores of the people inside of it, which is going to take up space as well.

[Arthropoda Ingens]

Seriously, I'll do whatever I want and I never was ignored because I don't pull through the conventional tropes of SciFi. And it is not handwaving. Who are you? Seriously, you just came in and seem totally bent on going against anyone who goes against your way. I have RPed with nearly everybody regardless of whether x or y is more realistic because I'm not a pedant who keeps making posts claiming to ignore everyone who goes against the way I want for things to look like, so what is the point?

Why is it so important for you to keep such crusade against any attempts to make FT at least seem a bit more convincing or against my decision to have made something that goes against the most overused clichés and conventions? Did I hurt your feelings? Is there something else? Do you have a grudge with the author of Atomic Rocket?

Really, you are starting to look like a certain self-blowharding PhD in "Temporal Mechanics" of the past when arguing why his Chronomancy shouldn't be IGNORED. Then show your Proper PhDs, prove that you know what you're talking about instead of shoving your weight in thin air as you claim that never a spacecraft will have access to a sufficiently mass and volume-efficient form of energy to accelerate at 1g.

Wait. You're the one pretending he can build TOTALLY REALISTIC I SWEAR spacecraft. Not me. I'm the one saying you're talking out of your ass when making this claim. Shouldn't you be the one with the PhD?

That aside, your reading comprehension is clearly lacking, as you thoroughly missed the point of my post (Well, I presume it isn't the only thing you ever missed). I don't give a shit about how you, or anyone else chooses to play. I do give a shit when people claim their shit that'd make every NASA person in existence die from acute boner and/ or head asplosion is LOLREALISTIC. That's my whole gripe.

Now, alright. Maybe I'm wrong. Please, show it to us. Show us the mighty, very realistic spacecraft that flies along at 1g acceleration for a month straight (Should make that two months for decent system-wide travel, really, but hey). As opposed to 1/10 g. Or 1/100 g. You don't have to build it - I'll be perfectly happy with only sufficient power production & energy densities it can realistically survive, and with the required reaction mass actually being a part of the ship.

You don't want to fuck physics in the ass, you'll have to restrict yourself to MT or less.

I see. Every author, every futurologist, every Alternate history writer, every literary work of prediction of the future fucks physics in the ass.

After reading this, I'm now sure I can't even bother arguing further with you.

> Implying that SciFi authors a) Are authorities of engineering and physics*, and b) That they apply those for TOTALLY REALISTIC TECHNOLOGIES NOT INVOLVING HANDWAVING in their works

I lol'd. You're seriously using the likes of, oh, I don't know, Stephen Baxter as examples of how SciFi is TOTALLY REALISTIC ENGINEERING?

No, really. I lol'd. Works of fiction equal REALISM! I never knew.

Hilariously enough, these Authors - Baxter, Asimov & co, to throw in folks with math/ physics degrees - are and were perfectly open about their fictional works fucking physics in the ass. And yet, here you are, insisting that they totally didn't. Eevn better, these works of fiction include all the tropes you hate so much. All realistic?

lawl

* Granted, some are. Funnily enough, that never plays much of a role when it comes to imagining their spaceboats

[NERVUN]

Ladies and Gents, could I get the heat turned down just a bit please? I don't think this threads heatshields were designed to handle it.

[Brewdomia]

Arthropoda Ingens, stop being an ass.

[North Mack]

Ladies and Gents, could I get the heat turned down just a bit please? I don't think this threads heatshields were designed to handle it.

Arthropoda Ingens, stop being an ass.

Speaking of which... heat. How do you handle it? Since most of my ships run on basically, handwaved high-tech fusion torches, is there a way I could dump as much waste heat as possible into the thrust as I vent it for acceleration?

[L3 Communications]

Speaking of which... heat. How do you handle it? Since most of my ships run on basically, handwaved high-tech fusion torches, is there a way I could dump as much waste heat as possible into the thrust as I vent it for acceleration?

Magical radiator fins/I don't.

[Derscon]

You could always create a pocket dimension heat sink made entirely of liquid nitrogen <_<

[Sertian]

Ladies and Gents, could I get the heat turned down just a bit please? I don't think this threads heatshields were designed to handle it.

Arthropoda Ingens, stop being an ass.

Speaking of which... heat. How do you handle it? Since most of my ships run on basically, handwaved high-tech fusion torches, is there a way I could dump as much waste heat as possible into the thrust as I vent it for acceleration?

Civilian ships still make use of radiators, or a mixture of radiators and liquid droplet radiators to vent their excess heat. However, due to very high power efficiency (converting 60-70% of the energy from their powerplants/torch drives into electrical energy rather than only the 30% we can get from a water-based power conversion at the moment), they don't have to deal with as much heat as more baseline technology. Military ships have been more higher efficient power plants (taking in 90-99% of the reactor's usable output and putting it to use, with the remaining 1-10% being wasted as heat), and from a recent embracing of a consequence of the Sert's dimension technology, they radiate heat along non-standard dimensional vectors from internal devices. In effect, I am radiating it into N-space. ^_^

Of course this only works with dimension technology. Your best bets for anything realistic that obeys the laws of thermodynamics are either solid radiator 'fins' or liquid coolant/droplet radiators that spray a liquid through vacuum that then collect it further 'down' ship. Mass Effect also made use of ceramic radiator strips along their vessel's hull, which were less obvious and fragile than the fin idea, in addition to the droplet system.

Edit: I suppose it could be possible you could use liquid droplet radiators that disperse their droplets into the ship's exhaust, although that seems pretty inefficient... Still, feel free to handwave anything to get the ships you want, so long as its done for fun and not win. ^_^

[OMGeverynameistaken]

Ladies and Gents, could I get the heat turned down just a bit please? I don't think this threads heatshields were designed to handle it.

Arthropoda Ingens, stop being an ass.

Speaking of which... heat. How do you handle it? Since most of my ships run on basically, handwaved high-tech fusion torches, is there a way I could dump as much waste heat as possible into the thrust as I vent it for acceleration?

Steamships...
IN SPACE.

[Sapiency]

FT ALERT
ENEMY OF THE STATE FOUND

<SSBP> in context?    "Haha haha you are fail! Fail! Fail! Such mega fail! I rape six year olds fail!
<SSBP> "Dude stop [REDACTED BY MOD] me."
<[REDACTED BY MOD]> Go to urbandictionary then.
<SSBP> the act is derived from a cross between misguided, unwitting trolling and disgustingly deliberate and annoying flaming.
<SSBP> It is commonly performed by FT rp-ers.
<SSBP> 80% of whom are nerds with sinus infections
<SSBP> [REDACTED BY MOD] commonly say things like "Okay." or "Alright." when angered.
<SSBP> It is best to speak calmly and slowly to calm the [REDACTED BY MOD] down
<SSBP> An [REDACTED BY MOD] is one who [REDACTED BY MOD]. *see definition above*

It is wartime.

Protect your children, bar the doors.

Insidious.

We must defend our homestead.

tl;dr: some loser who I won't divulge the name of (ask on #conglomerate) haets ft. gogog /b/ FT. For great justice.

[OMGeverynameistaken]

That guy's mean. It's not my fault I have sinus infections all the time ;-;

[Sapiency]

So I'm developing a ship-to-ship weapon. Small missiles, containing a cluster of tentacles; they latch onto the hull of enemy ships, pierce the interior through glorious application of superheated slood, then replicate by taking up a little of the armor of the ships, using nanobots. If nanobots don't work, then slood will. It will use this to replicate, while the tentacles occupy the crew. It will make copies of itself and attack the other ships of the enemy.

I need someone to help me fieldtest this.

Any takers?

[Derscon]

If you want a superweapon you could just stick a giant subspace vuvuzela on the front of your ship. It wouldn't actually kill anyone, but it would make them want to die, which is almost as good.

You are a cruel, cruel man

[Khandosia]

If you want a superweapon you could just stick a giant subspace vuvuzela on the front of your ship. It wouldn't actually kill anyone, but it would make them want to die, which is almost as good.

You are a cruel, cruel man

Cruel and unusual...how marvelous.

[Ozymos]

Speaking of which... heat. How do you handle it? Since most of my ships run on basically, handwaved high-tech fusion torches, is there a way I could dump as much waste heat as possible into the thrust as I vent it for acceleration?

Magical radiator fins/I don't.

Word.

[Alpha Imperium (Ancient)]

Can someone tell me how Anti-Matter weapons or drives would work using SCIENCE! ?

All I can think of is that the beam would counter out the existance of thematter that it hit, be it armour or flesh. Admitidly it would only be able to cancel so much of anything and more dense substances would be harder to destroy. Anyone have anything to add/change?

[Otagia]

Can someone tell me how Anti-Matter weapons or drives would work using SCIENCE! ?

All I can think of is that the beam would counter out the existance of thematter that it hit, be it armour or flesh. Admitidly it would only be able to cancel so much of anything and more dense substances would be harder to destroy. Anyone have anything to add/change?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antimatter

[Alpha Imperium (Ancient)]

Can someone tell me how Anti-Matter weapons or drives would work using SCIENCE! ?

All I can think of is that the beam would counter out the existance of thematter that it hit, be it armour or flesh. Admitidly it would only be able to cancel so much of anything and more dense substances would be harder to destroy. Anyone have anything to add/change?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antimatter

Simplified for someone who may have just failed GCSE Physics?

[Otagia]

AM plus stuff equal boom.

[Brewdomia]

AM plus stuff equal boom.

^^^
Words of a wise man.