Zenya wrote:I've been completely up front about our intentions, how we got involved, why we got involved,
Out of curiosity, where is this posted? I'm not being snarky here, I honestly didn't see you ever post that type of explanation.
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by Great Brigantia » Mon Apr 20, 2015 5:34 am
Zenya wrote:I've been completely up front about our intentions, how we got involved, why we got involved,
by Drakezia » Mon Apr 20, 2015 5:48 am
Toronina wrote:Klaus Devestatorie wrote:Actually, the NLO sees Balder as neutral. You're the one forcing people into categories, and frankly you appear to be in a minority even among other PRL supporters.
Try and deny it all you wish, the fact remains,
(1).Balder is not neutral.
(2).They joined the NPO. They suddenly have an embassy in Lazarus, when they had none before, and quite a few were withdrawing, made an embassy with The Pacific all of a sudden IIRC, delegate and regional flags are similar to that of the NPO and NLO.
(3).If they were neutral, why the sudden embassies. I don't think they had embassies with Communist Bloc before either. I am merely connecting the dots. If that all does not scream suspicious, then I don't know what does. If Balder was neutral, they would have no need to make a embassy with Lazarus all of a sudden when Stujenske couped the region.
by Zenya » Mon Apr 20, 2015 5:54 am
by Great Brigantia » Mon Apr 20, 2015 8:53 am
Zenya wrote:We never made a public statement, but I've spoken directly to the people especially on Lazarus' RMB who are making these claims to set the record straight which of course is just swept away and new theories are made up. After I saw the initial explosion in this forum I decided it was for the best to not have our thread end up filled with fighting just because we explained our decision, plus I don't really feel its announcement worthy since we only supplied I think 10 or so people myself included, which I'm not content with I might have been happy had there been 20, maybe.
by Consular » Mon Apr 20, 2015 1:46 pm
Tim Stark wrote:Consular wrote:And I'm curious as to why you care so much about the PRL. This coup is the same false government, just a new name and now finally with the recognition that the NPO has been in control all along. The actual coup happened long ago, to much less resistance.
Because anybody paying attention could realize that the current group that is the "PRL in Exile" is clearly not the NPO, and is actually fighting to regain sovereignty of their home and make something out of it. The reason people care about seeing those exiled PRL return is because they're the only people that are willing to work to make Lazarus something more than yet another stagnant trophy on the NPO's shelf. It's a shame that you can't grasp this, after so many pages.
by RiderSyl » Mon Apr 20, 2015 4:16 pm
Consular wrote:Had the natives of Lazarus advertised themselves as a genuine resistance rather than wishing to restore the PRLs dubious claim, they might have received a more sympathetic reception.
by Great Brigantia » Mon Apr 20, 2015 4:24 pm
Consular wrote:Had the natives of Lazarus advertised themselves as a genuine resistance rather than wishing to restore the PRLs dubious claim, they might have received a more sympathetic reception.
by Solorni » Mon Apr 20, 2015 5:51 pm
Ridersyl wrote:Consular wrote:Had the natives of Lazarus advertised themselves as a genuine resistance rather than wishing to restore the PRLs dubious claim, they might have received a more sympathetic reception.
Are you viewing NS from an alternate reality, where the PRL was shunned by many, instead of recognized as the legitimate government of Lazarus by nearly every important region that exists on the site?
by Great Brigantia » Mon Apr 20, 2015 6:02 pm
Solorni wrote:The PRL were shunned by many though.
by Durkadurkiranistan II » Mon Apr 20, 2015 8:22 pm
Great Brigantia wrote:What amazes me is that those who shunned the PRL are not at least equally vocal in their condemnation of the NPO/NLO. It's clear that the NPO was the driving force behind the 2013 purge of imperialists, and it's also clear that the NPO/NLO are the ones interested in perpetuating a tyrannical autocracy in Lazarus while natives are interested in implementing liberal democracy.
by Durkadurkiranistan II » Mon Apr 20, 2015 8:26 pm
by Onderkelkia » Tue Apr 21, 2015 5:27 am
Great Brigantia wrote:In essence, despite calling themselves the PRL-in-Exile, this is what has occurred. The natives are using the framework of the PRL, but they are planning to move beyond that framework and toward liberal democracy. The PRL as we know it already, to a great degree, no longer exists, and will eventually be replaced entirely by a liberal democratic government -- but only if the natives of Lazarus are given back control of their region.
Great Brigantia wrote:What amazes me is that those who shunned the PRL are not at least equally vocal in their condemnation of the NPO/NLO. It's clear that the NPO was the driving force behind the 2013 purge of imperialists, and it's also clear that the NPO/NLO are the ones interested in perpetuating a tyrannical autocracy in Lazarus while natives are interested in implementing liberal democracy.
by Solorni » Tue Apr 21, 2015 6:51 am
by Solorni » Tue Apr 21, 2015 7:00 am
by Great Brigantia » Tue Apr 21, 2015 7:05 am
Onderkelkia wrote:Planning internal reforms is not the same thing as renouncing the mantle and framework of the PRL - including its membership of the FRA, which was an illegitimate product of the surge of defenders entering Lazarus following the illegal purge and illegal overthrow of the Emerald Kingdom.
Most of the PRL aren't genuine pre-2013 natives, but a community of defenders who made Lazarus their home as the NPO made Lazarus defender to attract support after attacking imperialists. The defenders got several things out of that partnership, including a second defender-controlled sinker region.
If they genuinely want to move on from that, they should acknowledge the PRL's illegitimacy, shed its name and reverse the transformation the PRL brought about - both internally, with a move back to a more democratic government, and in terms of foreign policy, giving up the ill-gotten gains of the NPO purge.
Onderkelkia wrote:We'll take no lectures on opposition to the NPO from the defender world.
Imperialists have been consistently making criticisms of the NPO going back to the Sovereign Confederation and Milograd's actions in TSP. The NPO targeted members of imperialist regions in retaliation - up until the latest coup, in collaboration with defenders who saw a way of attacking a mutual enemy.
Straight after Stujenske began the latest purge, the LKE came out with a statement condemning his latest actions and the Francoist-defender nexus which took over Lazarus, corrupting its politics, after the 2013 purge. That condemnation stands - against both the NPO faction and the defender faction.
The simple fact is that contempt for the NPO doesn't translate into an endorsement for the PRL.
As for the 2013 purge, the NPO were indeed the driving force, but they weren't the only people who profited from that event.
Solorni wrote:I'd also like to note that the PRL has not made any overtures currently to Balder.
by Drop Your Pants » Tue Apr 21, 2015 7:20 am
Solorni wrote:Long time resident DYP just stated that he has left the PRL and has noted that Harmoneia is now in TWP with him. So Onder does have rather strong points about the PRL. I'd also like to note that the PRL has not made any overtures currently to Balder.
by Onderkelkia » Tue Apr 21, 2015 7:48 am
Great Brigantia wrote: You don't know how many of your people are already deployed in Lazarus with the militaries of Ainur, Project Soul, British Isles, and The Communist Bloc in support of the NPO/NLO, or you do know and are trying to conceal it.
Great Brigantia wrote:The simple fact is that there are imperialists supporting the NPO/NLO right now. 94 Block commands the military of Ainur, an imperialist region, and is the founder of Project Soul, another imperialist region, both of which are supporting the NPO/NLO.
Great Brigantia wrote:He is also in command of the military of British Isles, a region with increasing ties to the imperialist sphere, and has probably drawn support for the NPO/NLO from there as well.
Great Brigantia wrote:The Communist Bloc, a region that is better connected with imperialists than it is with actual leftists, is also providing support to the NPO/NLO.
Great Brigantia wrote:And you expect Lazarus to renounce its allies for you? What a farce.
Great Brigantia wrote:The Feeder and Sinker allies of the independent and imperialist sphere should be terminating their relations with your sphere at this point. You are standing against the sovereignty of Lazarus, in support of the NPO/NLO, and all of this argumentation is an elaborate display of smoke and mirrors to conceal that independents and imperialists are already deployed in Lazarus supporting the rogue regime.
In the same way that the ejection of Griffin was illegitimate, the ejection of Funkadelia was illegitimate. We protest against it, despite our own strenuous political disagreements with Funkadelia.
Great Brigantia wrote:You expect the natives of Lazarus to renounce FRA membership and the other treaty alliances gained since then in the midst of a coup d'etat? How about they just surrender to the NPO/NLO while they're renouncing and alienating all of their allies, to attract the support of people like yourself who may still decline to support them?
Great Brigantia wrote:This community has been the contributing, native community of Lazarus for the past two years, and several members of that community have been contributing natives for far longer than that. This idea that they are not native now because they were not native in 2013 is absurd; there have been two intervening years, and the contributions many of these people have made to Lazarus have been substantial.
by North East Somerset » Tue Apr 21, 2015 12:06 pm
Perhaps the real reason you, NES, et al., are so obstinately refusing to support the native community of Lazarus, why NES continues this game of saying he'll support and then saying he won't, is because you have no idea how many forces you could actually provide for such an effort. You don't know how many of your people are already deployed in Lazarus with the militaries of Ainur, Project Soul, British Isles, and The Communist Bloc in support of the NPO/NLO, or you do know and are trying to conceal it. And you expect Lazarus to renounce its allies for you? What a farce.
The Feeder and Sinker allies of the independent and imperialist sphere should be terminating their relations with your sphere at this point. You are standing against the sovereignty of Lazarus, in support of the NPO/NLO, and all of this argumentation is an elaborate display of smoke and mirrors to conceal that independents and imperialists are already deployed in Lazarus supporting the rogue regime.
by Great Brigantia » Tue Apr 21, 2015 1:33 pm
North East Somerset wrote:Europeia, Albion, LKE and TKGB had 60+ WA nations deployed in 'The Union' for the past week, on an RAL led mission. You can't have failed to notice that.
North East Somerset wrote:Lashing out at regions which offer some of the greatest potential to increase the strength of the resistance movement in the future is clearly counter-productive though Cormac. You are doing the liberation movement a great disservice.
by North East Somerset » Wed Apr 22, 2015 3:03 am
And anyone who would punish the liberation movement because of my comments is so petty that it defies belief. I don't speak for the liberation movement and in fact I'm barely involved with it -- my WA nation (this one) is parked in The North Pacific. The extent of my "involvement" has been to publish articles in a Gameplay newspaper that, again, has no affiliation with any Lazarene community, and to author WA resolutions that have more to do with my more than two year long opposition to the NPO than with Lazarus. My comments here are my own, and obviously don't at all represent the Lazarene Underground State.
I'm tangentially involved, at best, so don't try to pawn anything off on me.
by Consular » Wed Apr 22, 2015 3:42 am
by Of Goats and Men » Tue Apr 28, 2015 1:12 pm
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