Islamic State Crisis Megathread (ISIS/ISIL/IS)

[New Skaaneland]

Too bad you're a little late if you think I'm a pupil and I doubt you're a teacher anyway.

[Cabana]

Too bad you're a little late if you think I'm a pupil and I doubt you're a teacher anyway.

No shit I'm not genius.

If you even bothered to look at the Wikipedia page for the intervention or the coalition you'd know this isn't an Arab on Arab conflict.

Suffice to say, you are incapable of basic fact checking and there is no way for you to stay involved in this thread without making yourself look like any more of a joke.

[Socialist Czechia]

Should be all ISIL's fighters, supporters and officials shot, just like that?

Just answer, people. What is fair punishment for inhumane genocidal people?

I would vote for 're-education camps'. Assad should show he's better than them.

[The Klishi Islands]

I don't doubt that you're more informed than me since I watch the news about once a year,

I'm going to repeat this again, since you don't appear to understand: If you watch the news once a year, you are not fit to offer an opinion on current events. Any reasonably informed person would know, and know very well, that ISIS has committed numerous atrocities against minority people such as the Yazidis and the Kurds, has murdered and raped its way across northern Iraq and Syria, has supported or perpetrated terror attacks against actual real nations, controls a terror cell in Libya that is contributing to the chaos and anarchy in that country, and is widely considered to be the greatest non-state-based threat to security in the region. Stop defending a group you clearly know nothing about.

but you've obviously allowed yourself to be completely brainwashed by the media.

When you say stuff like this, you sound like a conspiracy theorist. The Western media (which I'm assuming you're referring to), as commercial as it is, provides some of the best insight regarding world issues to the general public, and is considered one of the best sources you can cite due to its independent (non-governmental) nature. Based on your other statements, I would further postulate that you've been brainwashed by either ISIS propaganda or conspiracy websites with too many font sizes and colors- which, by the way, are not valid sources on world issues.

The thing is that I don't really care about the victims of this war or who wins it.

That's absolutely terrible. To not care about, again, the rape and murder of thousands of completely innocent men, women, and children is absolutely terrible.

After all it's something internal between all those Arabs. I'm just happy that they're not united really and we shouldn't be either.

Oh, I see now. You're a racist. After all, all those Arabs don't matter, right? My confidence in your posts, already non-existent, is actually somehow breaking the laws of mathematics and dwindling further. Unless you have a damn good reason for this statement, you are at the very least a racist who defends genocidal maniacs.

It's actually a good thing that we disagree, but you can't be serious about calling yourself neutral as you condemn one of the sides but not the other. That is by fact not being neutral.

Fine. I do condemn one of the sides. I condemn the side that commits daily crimes against humanity, and I condemn anyone who supports them as someone who clearly needs to take a serious look at their worldviews. Maybe I'm not neutral, but I'm objective, and anyone taking a remotely objective look at the situation in northern Iraq and Syria would see that ISIS is one of the worst groups, if not the worst, in the world.

It's a disgrace to see the statue of liberty on your flag.

Why? I support liberty, I support liberal democracy, I support personal and economic freedoms. By defending mass murderers who use violence to further their political agenda, you are the one that is an affront to Lady Liberty. If we're dipping to baseless, immature insults here- my flag, far from feeling disgraced, is actually insulted by your bigoted and disgusting posts.

[New Skaaneland]

From my experience debates are rarely settled by words of reason once one of the sides referrs to his counterpart as "racist", "bigoted" and "disgusting". I note that you admit to not being neutral on this issue, but because of it I don't think we're going to come any further with this discussion.

[The Klishi Islands]

From my experience debates are rarely settled by words of reason once one of the sides referrs to his counterpart as "racist", "bigoted" and "disgusting". I note that you admit to not being neutral on this issue, but because of it I don't think we're going to come any further with this discussion.

There's no real debate here. Objectively, your statements are bigoted and racist, and in my opinion disgusting. If a politician said that he doesn't care about the Middle East because it's a problem between "all those Arabs," his views would rightly be called racist and bigoted, and that's why I'm calling yours the same. Why don't you try to address some of the points in my post instead of whining about what I call your views?

[New Skaaneland]

This discussion is over.

[The Klishi Islands]

This discussion is over.

*exasperated sigh* I love writing well-thought out posts only to have my counterpart ditch the debate once proven wrong. If you have something wrong with my posts, report it to the mods.

Aurelia, have any more news for us?

[Swag boys]

HELP ME RUN A REGION YOU TOWEL HEADS

[Cabana]

HELP ME RUN A REGION YOU TOWEL HEADS

nice meme m8

[Imperial City-States]

There's no real debate here. Objectively, your statements are bigoted and racist, and in my opinion disgusting. If a politician said that he doesn't care about the Middle East because it's a problem between "all those Arabs," his views would rightly be called racist and bigoted, and that's why I'm calling yours the same. Why don't you try to address some of the points in my post instead of whining about what I call your views?

Actually it wouldn't, You would have small groups of people (largely SJW's) who'd bitch and complain about it but the majority of people wouldn't care. It is a Middle Eastern problem, not specifically a Western one. Western intervention did result in a power void after the destruction of other Terrorist cells which lead to the rise of ISIS/ISIL but generally it's not a Western issue. Let them kill each other, not our problem. To say that someone who says that is racist and bigoted is incorrect.

I personally don't give a rat's ass about the Middle East. Does that make me racist and bigoted?


Please note, i'm not siding with Skane.

[Connori Pilgrims]

Should be all ISIL's fighters, supporters and officials shot, just like that?

Just answer, people. What is fair punishment for inhumane genocidal people?

I would vote for 're-education camps'. Assad should show he's better than them.

Reeducation/rehabilitation would be fine for those of the rank-and-file membership, well those who can still be diagnosed as worth helping (psych evaluation and investigation I believe is a must for individual cases).

Death may be preferable for the higher-ups and the more popular/notorious individuals like Muhammad Jassim Abdulkarim Olayan al-Dhafir (AKA Jihadi John) who are known to have committed atrocities. Their crimes will haunt them for the rest of their lives, and only the most optimistic can hope that society will accept them back... unless governments are willing to give these people aliases and basically hide their identities from the public.

[Imperial City-States]

Their crimes will haunt them for the rest of their lives,

I highly doubt this. A religious extremest who's dedicated enough to the cause to literally do mass executions, beheadings and the like. Is not going to feel remorse. A bullet or a good old fashion hanging would work better.

[Benuty]

Their crimes will haunt them for the rest of their lives,

I highly doubt this. A religious extremest who's dedicated enough to the cause to literally do mass executions, beheadings and the like. Is not going to feel remorse. A bullet or a good old fashion hanging would work better.

Probably would not work since the statement seems to imply the human mind is ever non changing. Hell even Fred Phelps on their death bed realized some of the stuff they did as leader of Westboro was utterly horrible.

[New Jordslag]

Since you keep on bitching about this I feel the necessity to continue despite that we're obviously not on topic.

Love ya too.

No. The victims of the massacre were members of a party which put an evil ideology into practice. They were guilty of actively taking part in and supporting the socialist governing. What's funny is how they and their supporters simply cannot see their own part in it.

Guilty of a crime of thinking differently. Mmhmm. You are attempting to legalize mass murder through the thought: "But they supported an ideology I don't like, so obviously I should just murder all of them!" That train of thought never leads to good places.

Actually I'm not sure that I would.

The ideology you are espousing speaks differently.

I didn't use the term "half-decent".

I know you didn't. I did. And I was saying that murdering people isn't a half-decent way to let your feelings about something be known.

What do you mean by allowed? He didn't ask for my permission as far as I can remember. He just did it.

Completely missing the point. I'm saying that, in your world, if a person can get away with murdering 77 people because he doesn't like how they think, I should be allowed to do likewise to people of his ideology. Ah, but you can see the problem with letting lunatics run around doing that, can't you?

If you love the place where you live and want it to be free, moving somewhere else doesn't solve the problem. That's just escaping the conflict and those who run tend to be the losers, although it doesn't hurt to take a holiday once or twice.

Free from what, a Socialist Government that provides high living standards? The Norwegian Government is an example to be followed, not overthrown.

What is your definition of the word "take"?

Taking is when one person removes an item from one person's hands for his own use. On it's own, that sounds evil. But what if, say, the people who it is taken from were using it for horrible purposes? Now, I'm not saying all Capitalists are evil. But in some cases, industries might very well be better off under a Socialist Government.

[The Klishi Islands]

There's no real debate here. Objectively, your statements are bigoted and racist, and in my opinion disgusting. If a politician said that he doesn't care about the Middle East because it's a problem between "all those Arabs," his views would rightly be called racist and bigoted, and that's why I'm calling yours the same. Why don't you try to address some of the points in my post instead of whining about what I call your views?

Actually it wouldn't, You would have small groups of people (largely SJW's) who'd bitch and complain about it but the majority of people wouldn't care. It is a Middle Eastern problem, not specifically a Western one. Western intervention did result in a power void after the destruction of other Terrorist cells which lead to the rise of ISIS/ISIL but generally it's not a Western issue. Let them kill each other, not our problem. To say that someone who says that is racist and bigoted is incorrect.

I personally don't give a rat's ass about the Middle East. Does that make me racist and bigoted?


Please note, i'm not siding with Skane.

That's not what I'm saying. Look at how it's worded: "all those Arabs." That implies that the violence stems specifically from the fact that they're Arabs, which is both false and racist. I don't deny that Western intervention created a power void, and I would love to see the region take a greater role in combating its own problems, but to postulate that the problem comes from the fact that the people are Arabs and nothing else, or that we shouldn't attempt to help solve the problem only because Arabs are involved, is the bigotry here.

Your idea that we should just let them kill each other is another thing entirely- I for one disagree, the international community should act to prevent genocides and conflict whenever possible.

EDIT: Jordslag, it's not worth it. I already tried. He's too stubborn to address carefully laid out points like that.

[Page]

Ok I'm lost here but has there just been an implication that "SJW" types support interventionism? There are warhawk liberals, sure, but I think most radicals are totally against any kind of war against ISIS.

[The Klishi Islands]

Ok I'm lost here but has there just been an implication that "SJW" types support interventionism? There are warhawk liberals, sure, but I think most radicals are totally against any kind of war against ISIS.

No, I think the "SJW" types would be rising up against the whole racist comment thing, not the non-interventionism.

[Page]

Ok I'm lost here but has there just been an implication that "SJW" types support interventionism? There are warhawk liberals, sure, but I think most radicals are totally against any kind of war against ISIS.

No, I think the "SJW" types would be rising up against the whole racist comment thing, not the non-interventionism.

And that I agree with. I'm 100% against intervention but the idea that Arabs are intrinsically savage or violent is fucked up.

[Kubra]

From my experience debates are rarely settled by words of reason once one of the sides referrs to his counterpart as "racist", "bigoted" and "disgusting". I note that you admit to not being neutral on this issue, but because of it I don't think we're going to come any further with this discussion.

aight then let's take up a different line of thought
why do you want the US to completely forego its economic interests in the region
that ain't patriotic in the slightest innit

[Imperial City-States]

Actually it wouldn't, You would have small groups of people (largely SJW's) who'd bitch and complain about it but the majority of people wouldn't care. It is a Middle Eastern problem, not specifically a Western one. Western intervention did result in a power void after the destruction of other Terrorist cells which lead to the rise of ISIS/ISIL but generally it's not a Western issue. Let them kill each other, not our problem. To say that someone who says that is racist and bigoted is incorrect.

I personally don't give a rat's ass about the Middle East. Does that make me racist and bigoted?


Please note, i'm not siding with Skane.

That's not what I'm saying. Look at how it's worded: "all those Arabs." That implies that the violence stems specifically from the fact that they're Arabs, which is both false and racist. I don't deny that Western intervention created a power void, and I would love to see the region take a greater role in combating its own problems, but to postulate that the problem comes from the fact that the people are Arabs and nothing else, or that we shouldn't attempt to help solve the problem only because Arabs are involved, is the bigotry here.

Your idea that we should just let them kill each other is another thing entirely- I for one disagree, the international community should act to prevent genocides and conflict whenever possible.

EDIT: Jordslag, it's not worth it. I already tried. He's too stubborn to address carefully laid out points like that.

The Violence stems from Middle Eastern Culture as a whole (looking specifically at religion here).

As far as intervention:

Who's going to flip the bill every time a 'genocide' or 'human rights violation' happens? Britain? No. France? Hell No. Germany? No. Any sort of intervention devolves to the United States getting involved and being the one to flip the majority of the bill not to mention casualties. I am fully aware that some of that comes with the territory of being a Super Power but who's going to pay the bill? It's easy to say 'intervene' when you're not the one who has to physically do the intervening.

The Middle East has prove time and time again throughout history that it is wholly incapable of peace (and by a further extent democracy) And the Middle East needs Dictator's to not fall into the Chaos they're presently in. The West really screwed things up by removing the Dictators who, while generally fucked up people (Gaddafi being the exception IMO) kept the religious extremism in check. There comes a point where intervening has no merits. Let them kill each other, the strongest will come out on top. One of the main problems specifically in Iraq is that for the longest period of time the Iraqi Army had no will to fight ISIS and royally took it up their fourth point of contact during the opening stages of the war.

[Kubra]

That's not what I'm saying. Look at how it's worded: "all those Arabs." That implies that the violence stems specifically from the fact that they're Arabs, which is both false and racist. I don't deny that Western intervention created a power void, and I would love to see the region take a greater role in combating its own problems, but to postulate that the problem comes from the fact that the people are Arabs and nothing else, or that we shouldn't attempt to help solve the problem only because Arabs are involved, is the bigotry here.

Your idea that we should just let them kill each other is another thing entirely- I for one disagree, the international community should act to prevent genocides and conflict whenever possible.

EDIT: Jordslag, it's not worth it. I already tried. He's too stubborn to address carefully laid out points like that.

The Violence stems from Middle Eastern Culture as a whole (looking specifically at religion here).

As far as intervention:

Who's going to flip the bill every time a 'genocide' or 'human rights violation' happens? Britain? No. France? Hell No. Germany? No. Any sort of intervention devolves to the United States getting involved and being the one to flip the majority of the bill not to mention casualties. I am fully aware that some of that comes with the territory of being a Super Power but who's going to pay the bill?

The Middle East has prove time and time again throughout history that it is wholly incapable of peace (and by a further extent democracy) And the Middle East needs Dictator's to not fall into the Chaos they're presently in. The West really screwed things up by removing the Dictators who, while generally fucked up people (Gaddafi being the exception IMO) kept the religious extremism in check. There comes a point where intervening has no merits. Let them kill each other, the strongest will come out on top. One of the main problems specifically in Iraq is that for the longest period of time the Iraqi Army had no will to fight ISIS and royally took it up their fourth point of contact during the opening stages of the war.

in contrast to us peace loving westerners mirite
sry bro pay for the war now or pay for it later on down the line when the strongest win, can charge premium prices for their resources, and afford to field competent semi-regular forces, geopolitics is all about opportunity cost.

[Socialist Czechia]

Still, if this fire will spread to Turkey, Saudi's realm even to Albania, Bosnia and Bulgaria, I won't cry.

More religious nuts will be purged.

And then, there will be peace. No one can fight from grave, like Machiavelli said.

[Bachmann America]

The ISIS and the Taliban have declared jihad on each other. I wish them both the utmost success.

[New Skaaneland]

No, I think the "SJW" types would be rising up against the whole racist comment thing, not the non-interventionism.

And that I agree with. I'm 100% against intervention but the idea that Arabs are intrinsically savage or violent is fucked up.

Now you're taking the words of Klishi islands as absolute truth and allowing him to define my reasons. While I do think many Arabs are savage, so should we be. Civilisation shouldn't come in conflict with the joy of fighting and I consider it a weakness among Westerners that everything always has to be nice to excess.

If you can't take these words from me you should go and watch some Fight Club. That'd be savage, wouldn't it? Now, would I be against fight clubs? I sure wouldn't. Project Mayhem is debatable of course, but I still wouldn't expect some kind of Arab muslim organisation to intervene.