While I agree with the general sentiment of your post, I don't understand how he insulted anyone in that line? Is being accused of having a "faith" in atheism offensive to some people now?
Advertisement
by Jute » Sun Mar 29, 2015 7:26 am
Carl Sagan, astrophysicist and atheist wrote:"Science is not only compatible with spirituality; it is a profound source of spirituality.
When we recognize our place in an immensity of light-years and in the passage of ages,
when we grasp the intricacy, beauty, and subtlety of life, then that soaring feeling,
that sense of elation and humility combined, is surely spiritual...
The notion that science and spirituality are somehow mutually exclusive does a disservice to both."
Italios wrote:Jute's probably some sort of Robin Hood-type outlaw
"Boys and girls so happy, young and gay / Don't let false worldly joy carry your hearts away."
by Christainville » Sun Mar 29, 2015 7:27 am
Dakini wrote:Christainville wrote:Its just, in a 21st century world, where women's rights is a huge political topic, we also take up for a culture that endorses the beating of women that are raped.
What the fuck does this have to do with your previous sentence? Why is this not in a separate paragraph if you're moving on to a new topic.
So, do we accept what's behind to move forward?
What does this even mean?
This is just one version of how we move forward but bring what's behind us with it and call it a future.
What?
What the fuck is this? Learn to quote properly please.Well, look at it. Most times conservatives are called old world, or that we don't move forward, any number of things that would tie us to a old mindset of thinking. At the same time Islam is considered conservative, and practice a lot of things that we wouldn't see as alright under human right laws and what not, but they are still accepted as a part of it. So, do their human rights violations and actions, and ways of life stop anyone from accepting them into the 21st century world? In a very liberal, progressive world, that has a goal of taking a select old world system with them? Its interesting because they way they do things is the opposite of what progressives would see as progress would accept as being modern. Now, if I said this about a Christian, then we can outlaw, and say bad thing, and do what ever; if it was Islam, we just need to progress them and bring them into the 21st century. Also, anyone against this now has a mental issue called Islamaphobic.
Nobody has suggested that Muslims should be allowed to treat women like shit. Nobody has suggested that telling Muslims they have to treat women like people in a way that secular societies deem acceptable is Islamophobic. Additionally, it's not like Islam has a monopoly on treating women like shit given the tendency for conservatives and Christians to do much the same and encourage this very same behaviour. Acting like it's only Islam or only Muslims who are sexist or like they are inherently so (or more sexist than other extreme religious or conservative groups) is definitely Islamophobic.So, that's what I meant by that.
You didn't say it especially clearly in the first place and your second attempt wasn't much of an improvement. I suggest that you organize your thoughts a little before you write.
by Dakini » Sun Mar 29, 2015 7:27 am
Jute wrote:Sun Wukong wrote:It would be nice if conservatives could go even a paragraph without lying about and insulting their enemies.
While I agree with the general sentiment of your post, I don't understand how he insulted anyone in that line? Is being accused of having a "faith" in atheism offensive to some people now?
by Christainville » Sun Mar 29, 2015 7:29 am
by Jute » Sun Mar 29, 2015 7:29 am
Dakini wrote:Jute wrote:While I agree with the general sentiment of your post, I don't understand how he insulted anyone in that line? Is being accused of having a "faith" in atheism offensive to some people now?
It's definitely pretty insulting to insist that people think a certain way when they definitely don't.
Carl Sagan, astrophysicist and atheist wrote:"Science is not only compatible with spirituality; it is a profound source of spirituality.
When we recognize our place in an immensity of light-years and in the passage of ages,
when we grasp the intricacy, beauty, and subtlety of life, then that soaring feeling,
that sense of elation and humility combined, is surely spiritual...
The notion that science and spirituality are somehow mutually exclusive does a disservice to both."
Italios wrote:Jute's probably some sort of Robin Hood-type outlaw
"Boys and girls so happy, young and gay / Don't let false worldly joy carry your hearts away."
by Christainville » Sun Mar 29, 2015 7:30 am
Jute wrote:Dakini wrote:It's definitely pretty insulting to insist that people think a certain way when they definitely don't.
What, like having faith in something is a bad thing? Self-confidence is nothing else but having faith in yourself and your abilities, too, and that's usually seen as a good thing.
by Sun Wukong » Sun Mar 29, 2015 7:30 am
Jute wrote:Sun Wukong wrote:It would be nice if conservatives could go even a paragraph without lying about and insulting their enemies.
While I agree with the general sentiment of your post, I don't understand how he insulted anyone in that line? Is being accused of having a "faith" in atheism offensive to some people now?
by Sun Wukong » Sun Mar 29, 2015 7:35 am
Christainville wrote:Sun Wukong wrote:And simply wrong.
Is faith such a terrible thing to you that you feel the need to force it on to your enemies?
actually I didn't force it on them, I just said the term, I didn't demand they use it. Its just they believe there is no god. Faith, in terms, is just the belief in something. So, I wasn't implying its a church of atheism, or sects of atheism, but that the faith is there is no god. Now, anything to add?
by Christainville » Sun Mar 29, 2015 7:36 am
Sun Wukong wrote:Jute wrote:While I agree with the general sentiment of your post, I don't understand how he insulted anyone in that line? Is being accused of having a "faith" in atheism offensive to some people now?
Yes.
Faith is believing strongly in something for no justifiable reason, and refusing to reconsider you position. In most contexts it's a bad thing.
by Sun Wukong » Sun Mar 29, 2015 7:38 am
Christainville wrote:Sun Wukong wrote:Yes.
Faith is believing strongly in something for no justifiable reason, and refusing to reconsider you position. In most contexts it's a bad thing.
Now, I will full disagree with that.
Example: I should have faith in the fact I have a right not to be poisoned. If I don't have a faith in, I am kinda saying anyone HAS the right poison me, from my personal view. So, I think faith, in general, is good. Now, something we put faith in can be bad, but it really depends on what the faith is used for.
by Jute » Sun Mar 29, 2015 7:39 am
Carl Sagan, astrophysicist and atheist wrote:"Science is not only compatible with spirituality; it is a profound source of spirituality.
When we recognize our place in an immensity of light-years and in the passage of ages,
when we grasp the intricacy, beauty, and subtlety of life, then that soaring feeling,
that sense of elation and humility combined, is surely spiritual...
The notion that science and spirituality are somehow mutually exclusive does a disservice to both."
Italios wrote:Jute's probably some sort of Robin Hood-type outlaw
"Boys and girls so happy, young and gay / Don't let false worldly joy carry your hearts away."
by New DeCapito » Sun Mar 29, 2015 7:39 am
Christainville wrote:Sun Wukong wrote:Yes.
Faith is believing strongly in something for no justifiable reason, and refusing to reconsider you position. In most contexts it's a bad thing.
Now, I will full disagree with that.
Example: I should have faith in the fact I have a right not to be poisoned. If I don't have a faith in, I am kinda saying anyone HAS the right poison me, from my personal view. So, I think faith, in general, is good. Now, something we put faith in can be bad, but it really depends on what the faith is used for.
by Dakini » Sun Mar 29, 2015 7:44 am
Christainville wrote:Dakini wrote:What the fuck is this? Learn to quote properly please.
Nobody has suggested that Muslims should be allowed to treat women like shit. Nobody has suggested that telling Muslims they have to treat women like people in a way that secular societies deem acceptable is Islamophobic. Additionally, it's not like Islam has a monopoly on treating women like shit given the tendency for conservatives and Christians to do much the same and encourage this very same behaviour. Acting like it's only Islam or only Muslims who are sexist or like they are inherently so (or more sexist than other extreme religious or conservative groups) is definitely Islamophobic.
You didn't say it especially clearly in the first place and your second attempt wasn't much of an improvement. I suggest that you organize your thoughts a little before you write.
Just to show, I can quote using this way.
Also, in media, politics, a lot of things.
We have turned somewhat of a blind eye to Islamic actions, we barely call Islamic terrorist, Islamic terrorist, and it matters because they say they do it in the name of Allah, for Islam.
We have turned somewhat of a blind eye to Islamic actions,.wWe barely call Islamic terrorists,Islamic terrorist,terrorists, like we should.and iIt matters because they say they do it in the name of Allah, for Islam.
I even saw a school work paper that gave students, public school for the record not a private one, a worksheet telling them Muslims had a stronger faith then Christians, and that they were peaceful, basically giving a view of one religion over another, which I thought violated a secular education program.
Its things like this were you can ask the question, is this just media being media, or really a format of indoctrination going on.
Because one of the biggest things out there is Islam, and I have, shockingly, Islamic friends, and even they are tired of this media overload, this idea that the whole world needs to help them out, and they have a greater stance against certain Islamic actions then other groups do.
Now, if that doesn't say something, idk what does....
by Dakini » Sun Mar 29, 2015 7:48 am
Jute wrote:Dakini wrote:It's definitely pretty insulting to insist that people think a certain way when they definitely don't.
What, like having faith in something is a bad thing? Self-confidence is nothing else but having faith in yourself and your abilities, too, and that's usually seen as a good thing.
Christainville wrote:Sun Wukong wrote:And simply wrong.
Is faith such a terrible thing to you that you feel the need to force it on to your enemies?
actually I didn't force it on them, I just said the term, I didn't demand they use it. Its just they believe there is no god. Faith, in terms, is just the belief in something. So, I wasn't implying its a church of atheism, or sects of atheism, but that the faith is there is no god. Now, anything to add?
by Sun Wukong » Sun Mar 29, 2015 7:52 am
Jute wrote:Dakini wrote:It's definitely pretty insulting to insist that people think a certain way when they definitely don't.
What, like having faith in something is a bad thing? Self-confidence is nothing else but having faith in yourself and your abilities, too, and that's usually seen as a good thing.
by Grave_n_idle » Sun Mar 29, 2015 7:52 am
by Jute » Sun Mar 29, 2015 7:54 am
Sun Wukong wrote:Jute wrote:What, like having faith in something is a bad thing? Self-confidence is nothing else but having faith in yourself and your abilities, too, and that's usually seen as a good thing.
Confidence and faith are related concepts, but faith is a bit stronger. I'm actually quite glad that most people don't have faith in themselves in the sense of Martin Luther's justification by faith, because there are plenty of things that most people aren't qualified to do. And shouldn't try.
Besides which, I believe in the Kamina who believes in me.
Carl Sagan, astrophysicist and atheist wrote:"Science is not only compatible with spirituality; it is a profound source of spirituality.
When we recognize our place in an immensity of light-years and in the passage of ages,
when we grasp the intricacy, beauty, and subtlety of life, then that soaring feeling,
that sense of elation and humility combined, is surely spiritual...
The notion that science and spirituality are somehow mutually exclusive does a disservice to both."
Italios wrote:Jute's probably some sort of Robin Hood-type outlaw
"Boys and girls so happy, young and gay / Don't let false worldly joy carry your hearts away."
by Sun Wukong » Sun Mar 29, 2015 8:02 am
Jute wrote:Sun Wukong wrote:Confidence and faith are related concepts, but faith is a bit stronger. I'm actually quite glad that most people don't have faith in themselves in the sense of Martin Luther's justification by faith, because there are plenty of things that most people aren't qualified to do. And shouldn't try.
Besides which, I believe in the Kamina who believes in me.
But faith can also be used to good things, can't it? Having faith in a better future when you're going through rough times, for example. It can give you hope and optimism, and encourage you to carry on with things and not just give up.
by Jute » Sun Mar 29, 2015 8:09 am
Sun Wukong wrote:Jute wrote:But faith can also be used to good things, can't it? Having faith in a better future when you're going through rough times, for example. It can give you hope and optimism, and encourage you to carry on with things and not just give up.
I did say it was a bad thing in most contexts. Not always.
But, for sake of argument:
"The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is the demand for their real happiness.
To call on them to give up their illusions about their condition is to call on them to give up a condition
that requires illusions. The criticism of religion is, therefore, in embryo, the criticism of that vale of tears
of which religion is the halo.
Criticism has plucked the imaginary flowers on the chain not in order that man shall continue to bear that
chain without fantasy or consolation, but so that he shall throw off the chain and pluck the living flower."
This applies to religion, but also obviously relates to the faith you describe.
Carl Sagan, astrophysicist and atheist wrote:"Science is not only compatible with spirituality; it is a profound source of spirituality.
When we recognize our place in an immensity of light-years and in the passage of ages,
when we grasp the intricacy, beauty, and subtlety of life, then that soaring feeling,
that sense of elation and humility combined, is surely spiritual...
The notion that science and spirituality are somehow mutually exclusive does a disservice to both."
Italios wrote:Jute's probably some sort of Robin Hood-type outlaw
"Boys and girls so happy, young and gay / Don't let false worldly joy carry your hearts away."
by Jute » Sun Mar 29, 2015 9:07 am
Sarigen wrote:These are all personal opinions and it's nice to have them, but they're ultimately just that. I base a lot of my 'beliefs' in hard statistical and/or peer reviewed evidence. I recommend this.
Carl Sagan, astrophysicist and atheist wrote:"Science is not only compatible with spirituality; it is a profound source of spirituality.
When we recognize our place in an immensity of light-years and in the passage of ages,
when we grasp the intricacy, beauty, and subtlety of life, then that soaring feeling,
that sense of elation and humility combined, is surely spiritual...
The notion that science and spirituality are somehow mutually exclusive does a disservice to both."
Italios wrote:Jute's probably some sort of Robin Hood-type outlaw
"Boys and girls so happy, young and gay / Don't let false worldly joy carry your hearts away."
by Dakini » Sun Mar 29, 2015 9:10 am
Jute wrote:Sarigen wrote:These are all personal opinions and it's nice to have them, but they're ultimately just that. I base a lot of my 'beliefs' in hard statistical and/or peer reviewed evidence. I recommend this.
Not everything can be measured easily, though. Feelings are more able to guide your actions in most places (as backed by science)
by The Black Forrest » Sun Mar 29, 2015 9:13 am
Christainville wrote:I wanted to talk on a few thing as a Christian and conservative, that currently are things I see going on daily.
1st off, separation of church and state is used and abused by both sides. In political talks, I hear a lot of more left leaning people say instead of doing dumb things like protesting over abortion and what not, why wont Christians solve world issues, like hunger and what not.
Well, for the record, some do, but they are hated because they are religious, Christian, in nature, which then makes them old world and un effective, so they want to provide a result that the world demands but wont let them give, so in a sense how can they do anything? Now, even as a conservative,
I don't want faith being the whole base of politics. Faith should be a choice, not forced.
Its just, even atheists, have a faith. they have a faith there is no god, as we have a faith God leads us through out life.
So, we all have a faith in one way or another, ours just became the realization that there is more out there then just us. So, what does that have to do with church and state? Why would a Texas mayor order pastors give over sermons if this old world system had no power? If this church was fake and could do nothing, why would people demand separation of church and state, which leads to my second point.
2nd. Most Christians and conservatives are not scared, and do not have a phobia of Islam. One thing I notice, because we don't accept something, people equate it with a fear, but then when other people don't accept something, its a civil right? Well, I wont lie, there are some people that miss represent Christians and conservatives. Its just, in a 21st century world, where women's rights is a huge political topic, we also take up for a culture that endorses the beating of women that are raped. So, do we accept what's behind to move forward? This is just one version of how we move forward but bring what's behind us with it and call it a future. Its not that I or any other conservative is scared of a Islamic person, its just we cant over look the bad things that are happening, the same as I can say with some people that call themselves "Christians" but have a hard time actually showing the love and compassion Christ commanded. Yet, does the love and compassion demand that you over look things that are wrong, things that are dangerous, things that cause issues? Nope, but you should reprimand in love of another person, and not in hate, and that's the things so many have failed at.
3rd and my final thing. This one will get me in a lot of trouble with the more liberal side of politics. Civil rights didn't come from man, because if they did, nothing would be civil.
If we legislate morality, you push people to do the opposite, but do you over look un moral actions, nope.
Through out history, what was defined as civil was ever changing, is that what we would want in our nations, in our cities?
To have a ever changing format of what's right and wrong, what acceptable, to only have freedom and justice if your on the side of the political party that won the most recently election.
A example of this is the recent Indiana bill, using religious freedom, discrimination occurs, and that's what religion should not be used for.
My question is, do we become so secular and so accepting, that we block out groups and views that can do good, but because of the name we don't allow them to do anything?
We allowed Islam into the 21st century with out changing a lot,
all I ask is that Christians be allowed the same with out chaining their faith to meet the current political views.
Because, in the end, what good is faith if every other person determines it, except a unchanging standard that is the headline for what you believe in.
That's why for me, Christianity and conservative ideas, will never be split. Its true, their are liberal Christians, and some liberal ideas work fine, make a good economy, make a good place to live in. Yet, its the idea of non-chaining standards, morals that help some one live a good life, and the belief that by doing this, we make things better in the hope for a brighter future. And for me, that should actually be conservatism.
I know the more liberal side will hate everything I wrote her probably,
but hey, I want a honest discussion, a honest view,
pull apart what I said, it should stand firm.
So, my question is, the things I wrote down, should that be real conservatism, should it be accepted,
in a 21st century world should Christianity play a part? Lets have a honest discussion, and lets try to keep it civil with out a lot of cursing and what not.
by Norstal » Sun Mar 29, 2015 9:22 am
Jute wrote:Sun Wukong wrote:It would be nice if conservatives could go even a paragraph without lying about and insulting their enemies.
While I agree with the general sentiment of your post, I don't understand how he insulted anyone in that line? Is being accused of having a "faith" in atheism offensive to some people now?
Toronto Sun wrote:Best poster ever. ★★★★★
New York Times wrote:No one can beat him in debates. 5/5.
IGN wrote:Literally the best game I've ever played. 10/10
NSG Public wrote:What a fucking douchebag.
by Jute » Sun Mar 29, 2015 9:25 am
Norstal wrote:Jute wrote:While I agree with the general sentiment of your post, I don't understand how he insulted anyone in that line? Is being accused of having a "faith" in atheism offensive to some people now?
The same way it's offensive to some Christians when you call them polytheist. It's ignorant.
Carl Sagan, astrophysicist and atheist wrote:"Science is not only compatible with spirituality; it is a profound source of spirituality.
When we recognize our place in an immensity of light-years and in the passage of ages,
when we grasp the intricacy, beauty, and subtlety of life, then that soaring feeling,
that sense of elation and humility combined, is surely spiritual...
The notion that science and spirituality are somehow mutually exclusive does a disservice to both."
Italios wrote:Jute's probably some sort of Robin Hood-type outlaw
"Boys and girls so happy, young and gay / Don't let false worldly joy carry your hearts away."
Advertisement
Users browsing this forum: Bagong Timog Mindanao, Eahland, Elwher, Infected Mushroom, Malisoto, Russian Brotherhood, San Lumen, Tanbearia
Advertisement