[DRAFT] International Aircraft Safety

[Jean Pierre Trudeau]

You are defining "any" aircraft as "any commercial form of air transport such as airliners, helicopters, blimps, or light aircraft", essentially blocking any future resolution on any aircraft whatsoever. Was that your intention?

No. My intention is to legislate civilian commercial aircraft only.

Then you better make it clear that definition only applies to this resolution, and not all resolutions.

[Separatist Peoples]

The ITSC doesn't actually mention anything about crash investigation. I might shift the focus to that, or include the ITSC.

"Why is the investigation an international issue, though? Nations can turn away safety threats already, thanks to the ITSC and relevant clauses. The requirements for investigation are fairly micromanage-y and fairly unnecessary for the WA to involve itself in. I don't see how member states can't handle this on their own easily enough."

[Jean Pierre Trudeau]

The ITSC doesn't actually mention anything about crash investigation. I might shift the focus to that, or include the ITSC.

"Why is the investigation an international issue, though? Nations can turn away safety threats already, thanks to the ITSC and relevant clauses. The requirements for investigation are fairly micromanage-y and fairly unnecessary for the WA to involve itself in. I don't see how member states can't handle this on their own easily enough."

Agreed.

[Kaboomlandia]

The ITSC doesn't actually mention anything about crash investigation. I might shift the focus to that, or include the ITSC.

"Why is the investigation an international issue, though? Nations can turn away safety threats already, thanks to the ITSC and relevant clauses. The requirements for investigation are fairly micromanage-y and fairly unnecessary for the WA to involve itself in. I don't see how member states can't handle this on their own easily enough."

Since this applies to planes crashing in international waters, member states can't handle this on their own.

[The Dark Star Republic]

OOC: Anyone else amused this would mandate installation of voice recorders in UAVs?

[Separatist Peoples]

"Why is the investigation an international issue, though? Nations can turn away safety threats already, thanks to the ITSC and relevant clauses. The requirements for investigation are fairly micromanage-y and fairly unnecessary for the WA to involve itself in. I don't see how member states can't handle this on their own easily enough."

Since this applies to planes crashing in international waters, member states can't handle this on their own.

"Right. Because member states are absolutely incapable of investigating international waters. Its not like they're even allowed to enter them. Oh, wait!"

Bell rubs the bridge of his nose hard. "By Odin, is there no end to your blatant ignorance of reality, ambassador? I feel ashamed for you."

[Kaboomlandia]

OOC: Anyone else amused this would mandate installation of voice recorders in UAVs?

I'll put in an exception for drones.

[Kaboomlandia]

New draft published.

[Imperializt Russia]

Category/Strength

1. DEFINES an "aircraft" as any civilian form of air transport such as airliners, helicopters, blimps, or light aircraft;

So military aircraft aren't actually aircraft?

3. REQUIRES that these recorders be able to withstand an acceleration of 3,400 G,

3400 hundred times the force of gravity? Also not all planets have the same gravity as the next one.

Military aircraft operate very differently and should not adhere to a civil aviation authority's measures to protect civilian passengers on pleasure, business and personal flights.

Plane crashes can be pretty damn severe. A few thousand G sounds about right for a requirement on survivability of flight recorder equipment.

[Separatist Peoples]

New draft published.

"I still don't see how any of this is necessary. All of this can be accomplished by individual member states, and states are already allowed to refuse entry based on safety concerns. You claim that nations somehow need help searching international waters, somehow forgetting that international waters are completely open to states to utilize and manage their own recovery operations within. At best, this could be focused on liaising with member states to facilitate recovery and search procedures within another member's territory, but even that will likely become too micromanaging. This new draft changes nothing, except makes the entire attempt longer and less palpable."

[Kaboomlandia]

Plane crashes can be pretty damn severe. A few thousand G sounds about right for a requirement on survivability of flight recorder equipment.

PSA 1771 Wikipedia
This plane was flown straight into the ground at near-supersonic speeds. It decelerated at about 5,000 times the force of gravity on impact.

[Separatist Peoples]

"And yet again, the author choses to ignore those with concerns in favor of reiterating specious minutiae with little actual bearing on the issue...it's times like these I have to ask What Would Chester Pearson Do?"

[Jean Pierre Trudeau]

"..it's times like these I have to ask What Would Chester Pearson Do?"

The answer to that is quite simple my friend. Draft a competing blocker, and campaign it to quorum. If the author is truly serious about this, they will be forced to roll the dice and send it to the floor, in an attempt to beat the blocker submission. With any luck it will be ruled illegal thus paving the way for them to be shown the door. Harsh? Maybe. Fun? Definitely.

[Kaboomlandia]

"..it's times like these I have to ask What Would Chester Pearson Do?"

The answer to that is quite simple my friend. Draft a competing blocker, and campaign it to quorum. If the author is truly serious about this, they will be forced to roll the dice and send it to the floor, in an attempt to beat the blocker submission. With any luck it will be ruled illegal thus paving the way for them to be shown the door. Harsh? Maybe. Fun? Definitely.

Haven't you stopped critiquing my proposals?

[Jean Pierre Trudeau]

The answer to that is quite simple my friend. Draft a competing blocker, and campaign it to quorum. If the author is truly serious about this, they will be forced to roll the dice and send it to the floor, in an attempt to beat the blocker submission. With any luck it will be ruled illegal thus paving the way for them to be shown the door. Harsh? Maybe. Fun? Definitely.

Haven't you stopped critiquing my proposals?

Did I critique this? No I didn't. I simply suggested to a very close ally the proper course of action to take. Whether it happens or not, is for you to wait around and see.

Best of luck.

[Kaboomlandia]

If you want another draft on aircraft safety, I would welcome it. There is truly no point in making up a draft just to beat out mine.

[Separatist Peoples]

If you want another draft on aircraft safety, I would welcome it. There is truly no point in making up a draft just to beat out mine.

"Well, I won't have to. I have other tools at my disposal.I'm currently trying to engage in normal debate with you. That it hasn't been successful only reflects poorly on you, ambassador. You'll find I'm often much easier to get along with than Ambassador Trudeau when acknowledged."

[Jean Pierre Trudeau]

If you want another draft on aircraft safety, I would welcome it. There is truly no point in making up a draft just to beat out mine.

Not a draft my friend. A blocker that would make yours illegal.

[Imperium Anglorum]

'The ruling of the Judicial Committee of the Privy Council is that the use of the comma here, in '3,400 G', is in the French manner, hence referring to an acceleration of 3.4 standard gravitation accelerations, since a resistance to acceleration of 3 400 times gravity would be in the words of His Royal Highness, Clark Webley, Duke of Kent, "ridiculous"'.

'Furthermore, the Pilot's Union objected in Parliament to this provision, "9. REQUIRES that doors to the cockpit of an aircraft remain closed and locked at all times, and that two pilots are in the cockpit at all times". They demanded that the Foreign Office take action against it'

'However it is, I am to inform you that this delegation is opposed, due to the arguments made by Jean Pierre Trudeau and Separatist Peoples, as we find these to be too much of a micromanagement.'

[Kaboomlandia]

'The ruling of the Judicial Committee of the Privy Council is that the use of the comma here, in '3,400 G', is in the French manner, hence referring to an acceleration of 3.4 standard gravitation accelerations, since a resistance to acceleration of 3 400 times gravity would be in the words of His Royal Highness, Clark Webley, Duke of Kent, "ridiculous"'.

'Furthermore, the Pilot's Union objected in Parliament to this provision, "9. REQUIRES that doors to the cockpit of an aircraft remain closed and locked at all times, and that two pilots are in the cockpit at all times". They demanded that the Foreign Office take action against it'

'However it is, I am to inform you that this delegation is opposed, due to the arguments made by Jean Pierre Trudeau and Separatist Peoples, as we find these to be too much of a micromanagement.'

So I can get rid of the comma.
Also, there is a reason why cockpit doors are required to be locked in real life. Think 9/11.

[Imperium Anglorum]

Think Alps.

[Kaboomlandia]

Think Alps.

I took the "two pilots in cockpit" thing from the Germanwings crash. Partially the SilkAir 185 crash in '97.
I get what you mean. The cockpit door locking thing came from 9/11.

[Kaboomlandia]

If there is no more feedback, I'm planning on submitting this tomorrow or Monday.

[Ardchoille]

The author has asked for a category check.

I can't see any discussion of this from the floor and the author himself hasn't suggested an alternative choice. We'll have a look when the GA posters have kicked this specific question around a bit, if it proves impossible to resolve.

If you're in any doubt, I'd strongly advise against submitting it yet.

Not a ruling, but an argument for holding fire: this looks to me like an idea that would fit nicely in the first area of effect of the proposed Regulation category. You could work on that assumption and have it ready to go when we get the category finalised. Debating a specific proposal could also help fine-tune the new category descriptions.

[The Dark Star Republic]

Unless anything has changed since this ruling, I don't see this as being any different. It doesn't have ITSC's innocent passage provisions, it doesn't do anything to increase economic freedoms, it doesn't belong in Free Trade.