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by Terrordome » Wed Jan 28, 2015 3:58 pm
by The Five Galaxies » Wed Jan 28, 2015 3:59 pm
Terrordome wrote:I really hate abortion and to be honest it really disgusts me.
But I still think women should be unrestricted in their options regarding abortion. I suppose you could consider me hard pro-choice despite my personal beliefs.
That's because I recognise that others hold different beliefs to me that are valid. I wouldn't outlaw abortion because I dont believe in imposing my morality on everyone. I would say to men: sorry you don't get a vote on this, it's not your issue no matter how you bend it. And to women: if you dont approve of abortion don't have one.
by Bottle » Wed Jan 28, 2015 4:01 pm
The Five Galaxies wrote:Terrordome wrote:I really hate abortion and to be honest it really disgusts me.
But I still think women should be unrestricted in their options regarding abortion. I suppose you could consider me hard pro-choice despite my personal beliefs.
That's because I recognise that others hold different beliefs to me that are valid. I wouldn't outlaw abortion because I dont believe in imposing my morality on everyone. I would say to men: sorry you don't get a vote on this, it's not your issue no matter how you bend it. And to women: if you dont approve of abortion don't have one.
Can men not even be supportive of a woman's right to choose?
by Bottle » Wed Jan 28, 2015 4:05 pm
by Nanatsu no Tsuki » Wed Jan 28, 2015 4:07 pm
Bottle wrote:Genivaria wrote:Or one less rapist, murderer, tyrant or terrorist.
Hypothetical what ifs are irrelevant.
Especially since carrying one pregnancy means that the woman can't become pregnant with the baby she would have conceived the following month, which would have grown up to be one more scientist/criminal/laborer/whatever. The hypothetical do indeed become rather silly.
Slava Ukraini
Also: THERNSY!!
Your story isn't over;֍Help save transgender people's lives֍Help for feral cats
Cat with internet access||Supposedly heartless, & a d*ck.||Is maith an t-earra an tsíocháin.||No TGsRIP: Dyakovo & Ashmoria
by Terrordome » Wed Jan 28, 2015 4:08 pm
The Five Galaxies wrote:Terrordome wrote:I really hate abortion and to be honest it really disgusts me.
But I still think women should be unrestricted in their options regarding abortion. I suppose you could consider me hard pro-choice despite my personal beliefs.
That's because I recognise that others hold different beliefs to me that are valid. I wouldn't outlaw abortion because I dont believe in imposing my morality on everyone. I would say to men: sorry you don't get a vote on this, it's not your issue no matter how you bend it. And to women: if you dont approve of abortion don't have one.
Can men not even be supportive of a woman's right to choose?
by Genivaria » Wed Jan 28, 2015 4:17 pm
Sparunica wrote:I think it's okay depending on the circumstances. If Woman A and Woman B come up to me, and Woman A was raped and made pregnant by her rapist or can't afford to support a kid, and Woman B couldn't be bothered to use contraception, I'm going to let Woman A have the abortion, and not Woman B. Sure, it's your body, but you have to deal with the consequences of your actions. If you're irresponsible and then want someone else to do something about it, don't expect them to come running. If you aren't at fault, and you don't want the kid or can't have, sure. Additionally, if either mother or child's life is in danger, what has to be done should be done. If the kid's going to have some serious genetic disease that'll ruin it's life, you make the decision, I won't make it for you. If it's got a cleft palate or clubfoot, two correctable deformaties, no.
by Libronyscien » Wed Jan 28, 2015 4:27 pm
by Halnatorum » Wed Jan 28, 2015 4:35 pm
Socialist Czechia wrote:Either you must accept that woman has an option to have or not to have kids
by Farnhamia » Wed Jan 28, 2015 4:36 pm
Halnatorum wrote:Genivaria wrote:No its not.
Yes it is. If it wasn't murder a person who murders a pregnant woman would only be charged with one murder not two.
http://article.wn.com/view/2015/01/24/O ... tus_death/
http://www.wsoctv.com/news/news/local/o ... ederated=1
Thhe US government even recognizes fetuses as human beings: http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unborn_V ... olence_Act
So yes abortion is murder, every women who has terminated a pregnancy for any reason is guilty of murder.Socialist Czechia wrote:Either you must accept that woman has an option to have or not to have kids
She does have that option without murder, adoption, not havinng sex, getting her tubes tied.
by Mavorpen » Wed Jan 28, 2015 4:37 pm
Halnatorum wrote:Genivaria wrote:No its not.
Yes it is. If it wasn't murder a person who murders a pregnant woman would only be charged with one murder not two.
http://article.wn.com/view/2015/01/24/O ... tus_death/
http://www.wsoctv.com/news/news/local/o ... ederated=1
Thhe US government even recognizes fetuses as human beings: http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unborn_V ... olence_Act
So yes abortion is murder, every women who has terminated a pregnancy for any reason is guilty of murder.
(c) Nothing in this section shall be construed to permit the prosecution—
(1) of any person for conduct relating to an abortion for which the consent of the pregnant woman, or a person authorized by law to act on her behalf, has been obtained or for which such consent is implied by law;
by Ifreann » Wed Jan 28, 2015 4:39 pm
http://article.wn.com/view/2015/01/24/Ohio_man_charged_with_murder_in_fetus_death/
http://www.wsoctv.com/news/news/local/o ... ederated=1
Thhe US government even recognizes fetuses as human beings: http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unborn_V ... olence_Act
So yes abortion is murder, every women who has terminated a pregnancy for any reason is guilty of murder.
by Halnatorum » Wed Jan 28, 2015 4:56 pm
Same as all murderers.Farnhamia wrote:Very well, what penalties would you prescribe for these women?
A corrupt judicial system and corrupt/ineffectual federal system is the only reasons these murderers get away with it.Ifreann wrote:If it was murder then women who get abortions would be charged with murder.
So call the police on your local abortion clinic. See what happens.
by Russels Orbiting Teapot » Wed Jan 28, 2015 5:09 pm
Halnatorum wrote:A corrupt judicial system and corrupt/ineffectual federal system is the only reasons these murderers get away with it.
As for my calling the cops on my local abortion clinic, why would I call the cops on something that doesn't exist? If a woman wants to murder her child she has to drive at least 8 hours (depending on speed) to get to the closest one and that is in another jurisdiction.
by Fanosolia » Wed Jan 28, 2015 5:10 pm
Halnatorum wrote:Abortion = murder.
by Ifreann » Wed Jan 28, 2015 5:10 pm
As for my calling the cops on my local abortion clinic, why would I call the cops on something that doesn't exist? If a woman wants to murder her child she has to drive at least 8 hours (depending on speed) to get to the closest one and that is in another jurisdiction.
by Desperate Measures » Wed Jan 28, 2015 5:15 pm
Ifreann wrote:Halnatorum wrote:A corrupt judicial system and corrupt/ineffectual federal system is the only reasons these murderers get away with it.
The same system that passed the Unborn Victims Of Violence Act is corrupt and ineffectual?As for my calling the cops on my local abortion clinic, why would I call the cops on something that doesn't exist? If a woman wants to murder her child she has to drive at least 8 hours (depending on speed) to get to the closest one and that is in another jurisdiction.
So call the police there. You're letting murderers go free by sitting here posting online instead of doing something to stop them.
by Ifreann » Wed Jan 28, 2015 5:17 pm
Desperate Measures wrote:Ifreann wrote:The same system that passed the Unborn Victims Of Violence Act is corrupt and ineffectual?
So call the police there. You're letting murderers go free by sitting here posting online instead of doing something to stop them.
He could make a sign, too. It's good use your creative energy.
by Ashmoria » Wed Jan 28, 2015 5:18 pm
Old Hope wrote:Nanatsu no Tsuki wrote:
Besides, other than sperm, what else does a man brings to a pregnancy? His body isn't the one doing the job of feeding and incubating a fetus. His body isn't the one deforming for 9 months. His life is not the one that could be in peril if the pregnancy and labor become complicated.
You never heard of conjoined twins, did you, Ashmoria?
And Nanatsu- that is a strawman.
by Nanatsu no Tsuki » Wed Jan 28, 2015 5:19 pm
Desperate Measures wrote:Ifreann wrote:The same system that passed the Unborn Victims Of Violence Act is corrupt and ineffectual?
So call the police there. You're letting murderers go free by sitting here posting online instead of doing something to stop them.
He could make a sign, too. It's good use your creative energy.
Slava Ukraini
Also: THERNSY!!
Your story isn't over;֍Help save transgender people's lives֍Help for feral cats
Cat with internet access||Supposedly heartless, & a d*ck.||Is maith an t-earra an tsíocháin.||No TGsRIP: Dyakovo & Ashmoria
by Ashmoria » Wed Jan 28, 2015 5:20 pm
Old Hope wrote:Mavorpen wrote:And she takes responsibility and makes the fetus go away by getting an abortion, just as I would do the same for a parasitic worm residing in my intestines.
But that means that the unborn is killed. And that would be entirely the mothers' responsibility. And because there is another possibility to end this with both living...
And that worm is a not a human. The fetus is.
by Desperate Measures » Wed Jan 28, 2015 5:21 pm
by Ashmoria » Wed Jan 28, 2015 5:22 pm
Russels Orbiting Teapot wrote:Nanatsu no Tsuki wrote:Not just that, it lives off of her body. Even when brain activity begins. It uses her body for nourishment, and as dwelling. I think it is very much in point to say that until it is out of her body, a woman has all the right in the world to remove said fetus if she so wishes.
Short for I agree with you.
I'm honestly a little more uncertain about it once brain activity begins. I suspect that if brain activity somehow began at conception, I would still fall begrudgingly on the bodily autonomy side.
Fortunately, pregnant women have a 24-28 week window before their fetus becomes anything that even begins to be a person in which they can get rid of it if that's their decision, so it's less of an issue, and I would want to strongly encourage, or perhaps require, pregnant women to make their decision in advance of that deadline.
Also fortunately our laws here in the US already line up with this pretty well. I've seen scientific evidence that makes me think it might be prudent to move the third trimester rule to 25 weeks, but only because the vast majority of abortions happen before 20 weeks.
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