Hostages Held Inside Sydney Cafe

[The Lotophagi]

Somewhat odd that the gunman chose to take hostages and make demands, if it is an extremist Islamist. Maybe it's more political than just a jihadist attack - didn't Israel recently arrest a bunch of Hamas officials? Maybe this attack was carried out with the hope of getting a hostage exchange or something.

This is, of course, all idle speculation, so the usual barrel of salt applies.

EDIT: It's also apparently the 27th anniversary of Hamas' founding today, but that could be entirely coincidental.

[Asyir]

Well. I'd assume there are snipers waiting for a clear shot.

Unclear how many defenders though.

If this were in America, snipers would be deployed, so for the moment I'm assuming there is at least one or two.

[Linux and the X]

It's an act of terrorism whether or not the perpetrator is directly affiliated with IS and it needs to be treated as an act of terrorism.

There's no clear indication that it's terrorism; even Tony Abbott admits that.

[Arlenton]

Christianity, Judaism and a whole bunch of other religions as well could be considered violent and intolerant by your twisted logic, but naturally you're just a blatant Islamophobe and a bigot to boot.

Look, dude, I don't think Islam is inhernetly violent but you can't deny that most of the terrorist organizations these days are Muslim.

That is true, but it's not because they are Muslim, it has more to do with the areas where the Islam is dominant and what happens in those areas.
Im sure there would have been Buddhist terrorists hijacking planes and crashing them into buildings of an Islamic America if you simply just switch around the religions.

[Asyir]

Well. I'd assume there are snipers waiting for a clear shot.

Yeah, it's a fair assumption, but the police would be incredibly foolish to confirm it. And I wouldn't be surprised if they already had a clear shot and were waiting to take it; they probably would prefer a live capture.

They usually only take the shot if either the siege is taking too long, or if hostages start getting killed.

[Alyakia]

It's an act of terrorism whether or not the perpetrator is directly affiliated with IS and it needs to be treated as an act of terrorism.

There's no clear indication that it's terrorism; even Tony Abbott admits that.

i hate to be a hypocrite but let's be honest, he probably doesn't want to talk to abott so he can demand a plane to french west africa

[Geilinor]

The flag certainly makes it seem like a terrorist action.

[Alizeria]

It's an act of terrorism whether or not the perpetrator is directly affiliated with IS and it needs to be treated as an act of terrorism.

I have a lot of respect for NSW police, and I hope that they are successful in rescuing the hostages and bringing the scumbags responsible to justice.

The NSW Police, who you respect, are not treating this as an act of terrorism.

Oh well there goes my respect. Is that what you're wanting me to say? No? Well that was an irrelevant post wasn't it?

It should be treated as an act of terrorism. I'm not surprised it isn't, but it should be.

[Alleniana]

It's an act of terrorism whether or not the perpetrator is directly affiliated with IS and it needs to be treated as an act of terrorism.

I have a lot of respect for NSW police, and I hope that they are successful in rescuing the hostages and bringing the scumbags responsible to justice.

The NSW Police, who you respect, are not treating this as an act of terrorism.

They can't confirm it is, but the NSW police commissioner has said that they are treating it as one for practical reasons.

There's no clear indication that it's terrorism; even Tony Abbott admits that.

i hate to be a hypocrite but let's be honest, he probably doesn't want to talk to abott so he can demand a plane to french west africa

Mmm, true.

[Alizeria]

It's an act of terrorism whether or not the perpetrator is directly affiliated with IS and it needs to be treated as an act of terrorism.

There's no clear indication that it's terrorism; even Tony Abbott admits that.

How are we defining terrorism in this case? Because if we're defining it as 'has proven connections to known terrorist groups' then yes, that's correct, we can't verify that this is connected with IS. But the fact that it isn't proven that there is direct affiliation with ISIS does not mean that this isn't potentially an act of lone wolf terrorism.

Terrorism has a very broad definition afterall.

[Keyboard Warriors]

The NSW Police, who you respect, are not treating this as an act of terrorism.

They can't confirm it is, but the NSW police commissioner has said that they are treating it as one for practical reasons.

Evidently you've misheard him then. Police in Australia do not deal with terrorism incidents, that is left for the SAS. As the military aren't in control of the situation, that's the indicator that this is being treated as a crime and not a terrorist attack.

[Neoconstantius]

It's an act of terrorism whether or not the perpetrator is directly affiliated with IS and it needs to be treated as an act of terrorism.

There's no clear indication that it's terrorism; even Tony Abbott admits that.

Commissioner Scipione: "Not ruling out" the possibility of a terrorist incident. We are on footing that is consistent with a terrorist incident.

[Alleniana]

They can't confirm it is, but the NSW police commissioner has said that they are treating it as one for practical reasons.

Evidently you've misheard him then. Police in Australia do not deal with terrorism incidents, that is left for the SAS. As the military aren't in control of the situation, that's the indicator that this is being treated as a crime and not a terrorist attack.

I heard:

There's no clear indication that it's terrorism; even Tony Abbott admits that.

Commissioner Scipione: "Not ruling out" the possibility of a terrorist incident. We are on footing that is consistent with a terrorist incident.

[Ardoki]

The NSW Police, who you respect, are not treating this as an act of terrorism.

Oh well there goes my respect. Is that what you're wanting me to say? No? Well that was an irrelevant post wasn't it?

It should be treated as an act of terrorism. I'm not surprised it isn't, but it should be.

I agree.

[Linux and the X]

There's no clear indication that it's terrorism; even Tony Abbott admits that.

How are we defining terrorism in this case? Because if we're defining it as 'has proven connections to known terrorist groups' then yes, that's correct, we can't verify that this is connected with IS. But the fact that it isn't proven that there is direct affiliation with ISIS does not mean that this isn't potentially an act of lone wolf terrorism.

Terrorism has a very broad definition afterall.

Terrorism: the use of tactics designed to create widespread mortal fear in the populace with the goal of inducing political change. Abbott has acknowledged that there is no evidence of political goals.

Also, the NSW Police Commissioner has said that it does not appear to be terrorism.

[Ardoki]

How are we defining terrorism in this case? Because if we're defining it as 'has proven connections to known terrorist groups' then yes, that's correct, we can't verify that this is connected with IS. But the fact that it isn't proven that there is direct affiliation with ISIS does not mean that this isn't potentially an act of lone wolf terrorism.

Terrorism has a very broad definition afterall.

Terrorism: the use of tactics designed to create widespread mortal fear in the populace with the goal of inducing political change. Abbott has acknowledged that there is no evidence of political goals.

Also, the NSW Police Commissioner has said that it does not appear to be terrorism.

There's no clear indication that it's terrorism; even Tony Abbott admits that.

Commissioner Scipione: "Not ruling out" the possibility of a terrorist incident. We are on footing that is consistent with a terrorist incident.

[Alleniana]

I suppose the point is that it's being treated as terrorism because that's what it most resembles at the moment. I mean, what else could it be?

[Geilinor]

How are we defining terrorism in this case? Because if we're defining it as 'has proven connections to known terrorist groups' then yes, that's correct, we can't verify that this is connected with IS. But the fact that it isn't proven that there is direct affiliation with ISIS does not mean that this isn't potentially an act of lone wolf terrorism.

Terrorism has a very broad definition afterall.

Terrorism: the use of tactics designed to create widespread mortal fear in the populace with the goal of inducing political change. Abbott has acknowledged that there is no evidence of political goals.

Also, the NSW Police Commissioner has said that it does not appear to be terrorism.

Treating it like terrorism doesn't mean it is terrorism, it just means that it's a threat to the security of Australia.

[Alizeria]

How are we defining terrorism in this case? Because if we're defining it as 'has proven connections to known terrorist groups' then yes, that's correct, we can't verify that this is connected with IS. But the fact that it isn't proven that there is direct affiliation with ISIS does not mean that this isn't potentially an act of lone wolf terrorism.

Terrorism has a very broad definition afterall.

Terrorism: the use of tactics designed to create widespread mortal fear in the populace with the goal of inducing political change. Abbott has acknowledged that there is no evidence of political goals.

Also, the NSW Police Commissioner has said that it does not appear to be terrorism.

So forcing people to carry the IS flag is, what? Just something your every day bank robber does?

At this point in time we don't enough facts to say what the motivation of the people are - which is actually what Abbott said. He hasn't said there is no evidence, he has said there is no evidence yet.

[Linux and the X]

Terrorism: the use of tactics designed to create widespread mortal fear in the populace with the goal of inducing political change. Abbott has acknowledged that there is no evidence of political goals.

Also, the NSW Police Commissioner has said that it does not appear to be terrorism.

Commissioner Scipione: "Not ruling out" the possibility of a terrorist incident. We are on footing that is consistent with a terrorist incident.

I'll need a source; SMH has this:

Mr Scipione said the siege does not appear to be linked to terrorism arrests this morning.

He said police were treating the siege as a hostage situation at the moment, but were prepared to escalate their response if needed.

"We have not yet confirmed this is a terrorism-related event," he said.

[Dewhurst-Narculis]

Terrorism: the use of tactics designed to create widespread mortal fear in the populace with the goal of inducing political change. Abbott has acknowledged that there is no evidence of political goals.

Also, the NSW Police Commissioner has said that it does not appear to be terrorism.

So forcing people to carry the IS flag is, what? Just something your every day bank robber does?

At this point in time we don't enough facts to say what the motivation of the people are - which is actually what Abbott said. He hasn't said there is no evidence, he has said there is no evidence yet.

Not the IS flag, similar but not the same flag

[Keyboard Warriors]

Terrorism: the use of tactics designed to create widespread mortal fear in the populace with the goal of inducing political change. Abbott has acknowledged that there is no evidence of political goals.

Also, the NSW Police Commissioner has said that it does not appear to be terrorism.

So forcing people to carry the IS flag is, what? Just something your every day bank robber does?

At this point in time we don't enough facts to say what the motivation of the people are - which is actually what Abbott said. He hasn't said there is no evidence, he has said there is no evidence yet.

Which shows that this isn't being treated as a terrorism incident, yet.

Things can change, but at the moment it is being treated as a hostage situation. A criminal situation. Not an act of terrorism. If and when things are escalated, you will know because the police will be replaced by military.

[Alleniana]

I'll need a source; SMH has this:

Mr Scipione said the siege does not appear to be linked to terrorism arrests this morning.

He said police were treating the siege as a hostage situation at the moment, but were prepared to escalate their response if needed.

"We have not yet confirmed this is a terrorism-related event," he said.

Not sure how to source it, but it was on this news livestream:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nvzpSvyyZis

Peaceful Muslims better get their act together opposing the terrorists. Or maybe they don't want to face the reality that Islam is a violent, intolerant religious system based on conquest and war.

There are moderate Islamic organizations. If Islam is based on conquest and war, the world will be different. More Islamic nations in Europe, if Ottoman able to won more territories.

pls stahp
git on topik pplz

[Neoconstantius]

I'll need a source; SMH has this:

Mr Scipione said the siege does not appear to be linked to terrorism arrests this morning.

He said police were treating the siege as a hostage situation at the moment, but were prepared to escalate their response if needed.

"We have not yet confirmed this is a terrorism-related event," he said.

I don't have a source, I was watching the stream of his statement live. Also, what he was referencing was the terror raids that were conducted in the area this morning, not the incident at hand; he's saying there is no indication those raids are connected to the ongoing situation, but that does not mean this is not a terror incident.

[Ardoki]

I'll need a source; SMH has this:

Mr Scipione said the siege does not appear to be linked to terrorism arrests this morning.

He said police were treating the siege as a hostage situation at the moment, but were prepared to escalate their response if needed.

"We have not yet confirmed this is a terrorism-related event," he said.

Commissioner Scipione said police were not ruling out the possibility of terrorist involvement.

“We’ve moved to a footing that would be consistent with a terrorism event,” Commissioner Scipione said during a Monday press conference.

http://thenewdaily.com.au/news/2014/12/15/hostage-situation-sydneys-martin-place/