Worst Leader your (RL) Country ever had?

[Dracoria]

Grant, followed by Reagan

Ulysses Grant? You'd better back that up with some explanations, bub.

[Harpers Ferry]

President Obama, followed by Andrew Johnson and George Busch.

Yes, because he killed 6,001 Cherokee *nod*

That was Jackson, not Johnson.

[Pimps Inc]

Yes,of course but in the end the Revolutionaries won.Porfirio also didn't have a bad rule as in not-destroying-the-economy good.

That doesn't excuse his corruption nor his political frauds, and if you haven't realized it:

This instability arose largely as a result of the dispossession of hundreds of thousands of peasants of their land. Communal indigenous landholdings were privatized, subdivided, and sold.

Peña isn't really doing any better.I'd say he's doing worse.

[Personal Freedom]

Grant, followed by Reagan

Ulysses Grant? You'd better back that up with some explanations, bub.

Grant was inept. He has so many scandals there is a wikipedia page dedicated to it.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ulysses_S._Grant_presidential_administration_scandals

[Furry Alairia and Algeria]

Yes, because he killed 6,001 Cherokee *nod*

That was Jackson, not Johnson.

That's the point.
Not even consider the worse out of the crowd.

[Furry Alairia and Algeria]

That doesn't excuse his corruption nor his political frauds, and if you haven't realized it:

Peña isn't really doing any better.I'd say he's doing worse.

In which ways?

[Pimps Inc]

Peña isn't really doing any better.I'd say he's doing worse.

In which ways?

Give me some time to list them all.

[Greater Weselton]

Obama

[Willy Brandt]

Obama

How is Obama worse than presidents like Andrew Jackson, who killed thousands of native Americans?

[Ethel mermania]

I think we should make a drinking game out of this thread.

Every time someone gives a one word answer. Like "Obama " or "bush" we take a drink. Who's in?

[Willy Brandt]

Even then there was careful control of photos on that. Americans are about image. Always have been; always will be.

FDR would not get elected today.....

Have to wonder how the 1960 elections would have gone were the television not in widespread use.

I shudder at the thought of such a dystopian alternate reality.

[Willy Brandt]

I think we should make a drinking game out of this thread.

Every time someone gives a one word answer. Like "Obama " or "bush" we take a drink. Who's in?

I'm sorry, but I'd rather not suffer liver failure. Maybe another night.

[Pimps Inc]

I think we should make a drinking game out of this thread.

Every time someone gives a one word answer. Like "Obama " or "bush" we take a drink. Who's in?

I'm sorry, but I'd rather not suffer liver failure. Maybe another night.

I think I'd be dead drunk after one page.

[Dracoria]

Ulysses Grant? You'd better back that up with some explanations, bub.

Grant was inept. He has so many scandals there is a wikipedia page dedicated to it.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ulysses_S._Grant_presidential_administration_scandals

The main reason these became scandals is because theyhad become public knowledge. Administrations leading up to his throughout the mid 19th century were corrupt, filled with improper gifts, political positions parcelled out to supporters rather than the best for the job, and a lot of backroom deals. The big differences here are that Grant had made a lot of enemies in his military days among media as well as civil and military leaders (even some in the South!), and plenty were looking for ways to bring him down a peg; in addition, unlike many prior presidents, Grant actually started trying to solve these issues of corruption in his administration (mostly because they became public knowledge; hell, he likely didn't know about many of them before the media of the day did). Would've been nice if he'd had started earlier, but up until then that's how presidential administrations were operating. Lincoln's wasn't much better, but he had the savvy to keep it under the rug like prior leaders.

Plus, Grant was the first president since perhaps Washington to begin to consider the natives as, you know, people again, sowing the seeds that would eventually result in some semblence of peace. First to establish national parks, and did pretty well in foreign affairs. You can thank him for Reconstruction and ensuring the new freemen had some, you know, rights until the 1876 election fallout ruined things.

By the way, here's another Wiki page that you forgot, partially on Grant's reforms in the wake of those scandals.

[Harpers Ferry]

Obama

Care to explain? Because, there are far worse as I keep reiterating.

[Ethel mermania]

I think we should make a drinking game out of this thread.

Every time someone gives a one word answer. Like "Obama " or "bush" we take a drink. Who's in?

I'm sorry, but I'd rather not suffer liver failure. Maybe another night.

Sir, you have topped me, well done.

[Harpers Ferry]

Obama

How is Obama worse than presidents like Andrew Jackson, who killed thousands of native Americans?

Because he's black *nod*

[Dracoria]

Have to wonder how the 1960 elections would have gone were the television not in widespread use.

I shudder at the thought of such a dystopian alternate reality.

Nixon was less interventionist than Kennedy. Probably would have pushed for the detente and normalization of relations with China even earlier. Think, there'd have been no Cuban Missile Crisis, maybe even an earlier end to the American involvement in Vietnam rather than warmonger Kennedy's pushing for more. The lies about a missile gap would have been cut off earlier. We may have lagged in the space race, though, as one of the most likely downsides.

[Willy Brandt]

I shudder at the thought of such a dystopian alternate reality.

Nixon was less interventionist than Kennedy. Probably would have pushed for the detente and normalization of relations with China even earlier. Think, there'd have been no Cuban Missile Crisis, maybe even an earlier end to the American involvement in Vietnam rather than warmonger Kennedy's pushing for more. The lies about a missile gap would have been cut off earlier. We may have lagged in the space race, though, as one of the most likely downsides.

Less interventionist? That's certainly debatable. Nixon wasn't the hawk Johnson was, but I don't see how he was less interventionist than Kennedy.

I'm sure that if Nixon won in 1960, the Civil Rights Act would've had a harder time passing. Nixon wasn't the best when it came to race relations. Plus, he wouldn't have laid the framework for domestic and social reforms like Kennedy. Kennedy is responsible for things like food stamps, and his ideas were continued in the Johnson presidency.

[Ethel mermania]

Nixon was less interventionist than Kennedy. Probably would have pushed for the detente and normalization of relations with China even earlier. Think, there'd have been no Cuban Missile Crisis, maybe even an earlier end to the American involvement in Vietnam rather than warmonger Kennedy's pushing for more. The lies about a missile gap would have been cut off earlier. We may have lagged in the space race, though, as one of the most likely downsides.

Less interventionist? That's certainly debatable. Nixon wasn't the hawk Johnson was, but I don't see how he was less interventionist than Kennedy.

I'm sure that if Nixon won in 1960, the Civil Rights Act would've had a harder time passing. Nixon wasn't the best when it came to race relations. Plus, he wouldn't have laid the framework for domestic and social reforms like Kennedy. Kennedy is responsible for things like food stamps, and his ideas were continued in the Johnson presidency.

Nixon testified on behalf of the civil rights act.

[Soviet Haaregrad]

Obama

Care to explain? Because, there are far worse as I keep reiterating.

But, they weren't black, therefore Obama is worse.

[Willy Brandt]

Less interventionist? That's certainly debatable. Nixon wasn't the hawk Johnson was, but I don't see how he was less interventionist than Kennedy.

I'm sure that if Nixon won in 1960, the Civil Rights Act would've had a harder time passing. Nixon wasn't the best when it came to race relations. Plus, he wouldn't have laid the framework for domestic and social reforms like Kennedy. Kennedy is responsible for things like food stamps, and his ideas were continued in the Johnson presidency.

Nixon testified on behalf of the civil rights act.

I just did a quick google search, and you're right. Nixon, as far as I know, tried to take a middle of the road approach to civil rights issues. I'm not denying the fact that Nixon would've advanced civil rights, but I doubt he would've done it as swiftly and quickly as JFK.

[Personal Freedom]

Grant was inept. He has so many scandals there is a wikipedia page dedicated to it.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ulysses_S._Grant_presidential_administration_scandals

The main reason these became scandals is because theyhad become public knowledge. Administrations leading up to his throughout the mid 19th century were corrupt, filled with improper gifts, political positions parcelled out to supporters rather than the best for the job, and a lot of backroom deals. The big differences here are that Grant had made a lot of enemies in his military days among media as well as civil and military leaders (even some in the South!), and plenty were looking for ways to bring him down a peg; in addition, unlike many prior presidents, Grant actually started trying to solve these issues of corruption in his administration (mostly because they became public knowledge; hell, he likely didn't know about many of them before the media of the day did). Would've been nice if he'd had started earlier, but up until then that's how presidential administrations were operating. Lincoln's wasn't much better, but he had the savvy to keep it under the rug like prior leaders.

Plus, Grant was the first president since perhaps Washington to begin to consider the natives as, you know, people again, sowing the seeds that would eventually result in some semblence of peace. First to establish national parks, and did pretty well in foreign affairs. You can thank him for Reconstruction and ensuring the new freemen had some, you know, rights until the 1876 election fallout ruined things.

By the way, here's another Wiki page that you forgot, partially on Grant's reforms in the wake of those scandals.

Personal fibre of a president does not make-up for the president himself. What occurs during a president's reign, under those he appoints, ultimately is the determining factor of presidential success. The fact that Grant was also another of the line that sided against labour on-top of the scandal and the failure, for reconstruction was a failure, of his attempt to pull the country back together, and inability to advert wars with Indians and the game of imperialism, show him as probably one of the worst presidents of the Dystopian Gilded Age. I chose him over that of Grover Cleveland just do to fact that Grant's administration was far more saturated in corruption.

[Greater Weselton]

Obama

How is Obama worse than presidents like Andrew Jackson, who killed thousands of native Americans?

Obama supports abortion and gay marriage.

[The balkens]

How is Obama worse than presidents like Andrew Jackson, who killed thousands of native Americans?

Obama supports abortion and gay marriage.

How, the fuck, are those bad things?