Erdogan Builds Himself a Palace

[Farnhamia]

This is the worst country in the world, it wasn't enough for these people to massacre the armenians, greeks, assyrians, kurds and arabs, they also didn't apologise, they didn't even build cities, they entered, killed the people and took their homes. All the turks should be killed or expelled from Eurasia to Antartica and repopulate the land with actual human beings like the original armenians and greeks.

This is not the way we discuss things here. You are *** warned for trolling. ***. Please familiarize yourself with the Rules.

[Empire of Narnia]

You mean overthrow a democratically elected leader because they don't like his policies? If the military overthrew Obama you'd consider it evil, but in the minds of many Liberals the Turkish people don't deserve to elect their own leaders or make their own choices....

Since when was greed and death a liberal?

Still though, if a fundamentalist, anti-environmentalist, general twat of a leader has office, I would consider it good to remove him from said office to preserve the economy, the secularity and the environment.

What if the people don't want a secular country? What if they would rather live good lives with cool cars instead of boring environmentalism? Shouldn't the wishes of the people be respected, even if you disagree with them? If Erdogan really is that bad he'd be voted out next election anyways.

[Gallifrey Secundaria]

I'm a monarchist (not Turkish though) and I'd love it if the monarchy were restored but I'd like a secular Sultan not a Muslim-Conservative like Erdoğan.

Turkey, as the Ottoman Empire was a superpower under Islamic sultans. It should look to it's glorious past instead of just trying to be a lesser copy of the United States.

"The establishing structure (Ruling institution of the Ottoman Empire) of the Ottoman Empire (13th century) was an Islamic state in which the head of the Ottoman state was the Sultan. The social system was organized around millet. Millet structure allowed a great degree of religious, cultural and ethnic continuity to non-Muslim populations across the subdivisions of the Ottoman Empire and at the same time it permitted their incorporation into the Ottoman administrative, economic and political system. The Ottoman-appointed governor collected taxes and provided security, while the local religious or cultural matters were left to the regional communities to decide. On the other hand, the sultans were Muslims and the laws that bound them were based on the Sharia, the body of Islamic law, as well as various cultural customs. The Sultan, beginning in 1516, was also a Caliph, the leader of all the Sunni Muslims in the world. By the turn of the 19th century the Ottoman ruling elite recognized the need to restructure the legislative, military and judiciary systems to cope with their new political rivals in Europe. When the millet system started to lose its efficiency due to the rise of nationalism within its borders, the Ottoman Empire explored new ways of governing its territory composed of diverse populations.

Sultan Selim III founded the first secular military schools by establishing the new military unit, Nizam-ı Cedid, as early as 1792. However the last century (19th century) of the Ottoman Empire had many far reaching reforms. These reforms peaked with the tanzimat which was the initial reform era of the Ottoman empire. After the tanzimat, rules, such as those relating to the equalized status of non-Muslim citizens, the establishment of a parliament, the abandonment of medieval punishments for apostasy, as well as the codification of the constitution of the empire and the rights of Ottoman subjects were established. The First World War brought about the fall of the Ottoman Empire and the subsequent partitioning of the Ottoman Empire by the victorious Allies. Therefore, the Republic of Turkey was actually a nation-state built as a result of an empire lost."

The Ottoman Empire, while still Islamic, was as near secular as you could be without actually being secular.

[Gallifrey Secundaria]

Since when was greed and death a liberal?

Still though, if a fundamentalist, anti-environmentalist, general twat of a leader has office, I would consider it good to remove him from said office to preserve the economy, the secularity and the environment.

What if the people don't want a secular country? What if they would rather live good lives with cool cars instead of boring environmentalism? Shouldn't the wishes of the people be respected, even if you disagree with them? If Erdogan really is that bad he'd be voted out next election anyways.

Tyranny of the majority should never be allowed. The environment shouldn't be fucked with.

[United Marxist Nations]

Relevant: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FSlBnGIDmuA

[New Chalcedon]

Jesus Christ, Turkey is a functioning, liberal, secular democracy, but with Erdogan in power, I don't know how much longer I'll be able to say that. Erdogan is wiping his ass with the democratic principles Turkey was founded upon.

I hope he becomes the new Sultan. Turkey should look back to the time wen it was the glorious Ottoman Empire, that was when they were a superpower.

(1) You mean the time when they were excluded from European dealings entirely, save on the battlefield?

(2) You'd have to go much further back than the time of the last Sultans to find a time that Turkey was even taken seriously by the West, much less feared. You'd have to go almost all the way back to the reign of Suleiman the Lawgiver, in fact - the rot set in with the reign of his son, and never quite left.

[Whiteshore]

Is this the Turkish Versailles?

[Empire of Narnia]

What if the people don't want a secular country? What if they would rather live good lives with cool cars instead of boring environmentalism? Shouldn't the wishes of the people be respected, even if you disagree with them? If Erdogan really is that bad he'd be voted out next election anyways.

Tyranny of the majority should never be allowed. The environment shouldn't be fucked with.

Most of the bad things that happen with the environment are out of our control. Environmental laws are just to make people feel better without actually doing anything. Why should people have to drive ugly cars all their lives for nothing? The sun will eventually die anyways, and the universe as well. Better to live the good life while the party is still on.

[Gallifrey Secundaria]

Tyranny of the majority should never be allowed. The environment shouldn't be fucked with.

Most of the bad things that happen with the environment are out of our control. Environmental laws are just to make people feel better without actually doing anything. Why should people have to drive ugly cars all their lives for nothing? The sun will eventually die anyways, and the universe as well. Better to live the good life while the party is still on.

There are really beautiful and fast electrical cars. That argument doesn't work.



So you want to fuck up the planet for all of our descendants, even though it will take billions of years before the sun dies and TRILLIONS of years before the universe dies? Good to know you're that selfish.

[Empire of Narnia]

Most of the bad things that happen with the environment are out of our control. Environmental laws are just to make people feel better without actually doing anything. Why should people have to drive ugly cars all their lives for nothing? The sun will eventually die anyways, and the universe as well. Better to live the good life while the party is still on.

So you want to fuck up the planet for all of our descendants, even though it will take billions of years before the sun dies and TRILLIONS of years before the universe dies? Good to know you're that selfish.

I had a dream where the Care Bears told me the universe is inherently unstable and could collapse at any moment. Tenderheart told me to live for the moment and to not stop drinking coke. I know it is just a dream, but that is what I believe.

[Dooom35796821595]

So you want to fuck up the planet for all of our descendants, even though it will take billions of years before the sun dies and TRILLIONS of years before the universe dies? Good to know you're that selfish.

I had a dream where the Care Bears told me the universe is inherently unstable and could collapse at any moment. Tenderheart told me to live for the moment and to not stop drinking coke. I know it is just a dream, but that is what I believe.

You're taking advice from this?

http://worth1000.s3.amazonaws.com/submissions/418000/418112_89de_1024x2000.jpg

[Geilinor]

Since when was greed and death a liberal?

Still though, if a fundamentalist, anti-environmentalist, general twat of a leader has office, I would consider it good to remove him from said office to preserve the economy, the secularity and the environment.

What if the people don't want a secular country? What if they would rather live good lives with cool cars instead of boring environmentalism? Shouldn't the wishes of the people be respected, even if you disagree with them? If Erdogan really is that bad he'd be voted out next election anyways.

People make threads on other countries here all the time. I mean, aren't you Canadian and don't you post on threads about the US?

[Utilitarian Garibaldi]

please if ISIS invades turkey, the pkk take up terrorism again, and Erdogan tries to build a palace, the Army might be able to stage a coup and get rid of Erdogan.

[Empire of Narnia]

What if the people don't want a secular country? What if they would rather live good lives with cool cars instead of boring environmentalism? Shouldn't the wishes of the people be respected, even if you disagree with them? If Erdogan really is that bad he'd be voted out next election anyways.

People make threads on other countries here all the time. I mean, aren't you Canadian and don't you post on threads about the US?

I'm saying that it is not right to endorse overthrowing the government of a nation just because their people elect a leader you don't like. It is highly hypocritical to fully support democracy in the USA while supporting military dictatorship in Turkey.

[Geilinor]

People make threads on other countries here all the time. I mean, aren't you Canadian and don't you post on threads about the US?

I'm saying that it is not right to endorse overthrowing the government of a nation just because their people elect a leader you don't like. It is highly hypocritical to fully support democracy in the USA while supporting military dictatorship in Turkey.

I don't support military dictatorship in Turkey.

[Utilitarian Garibaldi]

I'm saying that it is not right to endorse overthrowing the government of a nation just because their people elect a leader you don't like. It is highly hypocritical to fully support democracy in the USA while supporting military dictatorship in Turkey.

I don't support military dictatorship in Turkey.

The whole reason Turkey was and still is the only decent Muslim country is because the army was able to get rid of whatever stupid president that the sharia peasants elected. For educated Turks (or working class turks) Erdogan is a dictator.

Democracy doesn't work in some countries because they aren't ready for it, sadly Turkey still isn't ready for direct democracy.

[Empire of Narnia]

I don't support military dictatorship in Turkey.

The whole reason Turkey was and still is the only decent Muslim country is because the army was able to get rid of whatever stupid president that the sharia peasants elected. For educated Turks (or working class turks) Erdogan is a dictator.

You shouldn't call the humble proletariat "sharia peasants" as that is highly rude. They have the right to elect a leader according to their values.

[Geilinor]

I don't support military dictatorship in Turkey.

The whole reason Turkey was and still is the only decent Muslim country is because the army was able to get rid of whatever stupid president that the sharia peasants elected. For educated Turks (or working class turks) Erdogan is a dictator.

Democracy doesn't work in some countries because they aren't ready for it, sadly Turkey still isn't ready for direct democracy.

Peasants? We're not talking about sub-Saharan Africa, I don't think Turkey has peasants.

[Utilitarian Garibaldi]

The whole reason Turkey was and still is the only decent Muslim country is because the army was able to get rid of whatever stupid president that the sharia peasants elected. For educated Turks (or working class turks) Erdogan is a dictator.

You shouldn't call the humble proletariat "sharia peasants" as that is highly rude. They have the right to elect a leader according to their values.

humble proletariat?! Are you kidding me? All the workers hate Erdogan, their all supporters of the socialist parties and the CHP, the Sharia Peasants are the stupid people who generally are farmers or live in the south, by no means proletariat. In fact they've received welfare while the coal workers get to enjoy being trapped in caves.

[Fvaarniimar]

Which should go to show us how ridiculous this action - of Erdogan's - seems to me.

[Utilitarian Garibaldi]

The whole reason Turkey was and still is the only decent Muslim country is because the army was able to get rid of whatever stupid president that the sharia peasants elected. For educated Turks (or working class turks) Erdogan is a dictator.

Democracy doesn't work in some countries because they aren't ready for it, sadly Turkey still isn't ready for direct democracy.

Peasants? We're not talking about sub-Saharan Africa, I don't think Turkey has peasants.

I'm half Turkish, and my grandparents come from the rural Turkey. In rural turkey quite a few people live peasant lifestyles (herd sheep, or farm) and adhere to silly islamic beliefs.

[New Chalcedon]

Is this the Turkish Versailles?

Apparently intended to be. Personally, if he wants to live in grandeur, Erdogan should move back into Topkapi Palace and make his intentions plain.

[Whiteshore]

Is this the Turkish Versailles?

Apparently intended to be. Personally, if he wants to live in grandeur, Erdogan should move back into Topkapi Palace and make his intentions plain.

Why should Erdogan move to Topkapi Palace?

[Coreyea]

President Erdogan of Turkey has unveiled a giant presidential palace costing $350 million.

Turkey's President Recep Tayyip Erdogan this week unveiled his new palace in the outskirts of the country's capital, Ankara. The gaudy residence boasts 1,000 rooms and apparently cost some $350 million to construct. Its total area, according to the AFP, encompasses some 2,150,000 square feet. Unsurprisingly, such largesse has led to criticism.

Ahead of the complex's official unveiling, which took place on Turkey's Republic Day on Oct. 29, opposition politicians declared that they would boycott the event — one deputy said it made Moscow's Kremlin compound look "like an outhouse." It has almost 50 times the floor space of the White House.

Activists are also furious that the gigantic complex has been erected in an area that was supposed to be protected forested lands and led to a significant mowing down of trees. Mass protests last year against Erdogan's government were initially inspired by state plans to build a commercial development in a small park in Istanbul.

Erdogan and his ruling Justice and Development Party (known by the acronym AKP) withstood a string of corruption scandals and triumphed in elections this year, which led to the then-Turkish prime minister taking up the role of the country's President. The opening of the new palace — dubbed the Ak Saray, or "white palace," but also a play on the ruling party's name — is rich with symbolism.

The new structure marks a shift from the Canakya palace in downtown Ankara, which has been the residence of the Turkish president dating back to the republic's revered founder Mustafa Kemal Ataturk. Arguably, no Turkish leader since Ataturk has dominated the country's politics as much as Erdogan, who sees the new palace as an echo of the new Turkey emerging under his watch.

"The new Turkey should assert itself with something new," he recently told reporters. "The presidential office has been arranged in a very special way, we have paid particular attention to this."

Until now, the post of the president has been a largely ceremonial role, but under Erdogan it will clearly not be.

The architecture of the palace is supposed to be a blend of modernism with gestures to Turkey's Ottoman heritage. Here's Erdogan himself on the structure's design:

We need to convey the message that Ankara is a Seljuk capital. We paid great attention to that. We paid attention to Ottoman themes in the interior, also adding elements reflecting the modern world. We had it constructed as a smart building. … [Such are] the requirements of being a great state.

The Seljuks were a Turkic tribe turned political dynasty that entered Anatolia beginning in the 11th century AD. They're considered the progenitors of the Ottomans, who would go on to build one of the most powerful empires in Europe and the Middle East that lasted until its collapse at the end of World War I. Turkey emerged out of the ashes of that empire and, under Ataturk's stewardship, went down a very different path: a secular nationalist state that looked to the West and rejected elements of the country's Muslim, Ottoman heritage.

Erdogan, who critics accuse of inspiring a creeping Islamization in the country, has taken pains to reclaim that legacy. In an interview in 2011, he told me that it would be "self-denial" for Turkey not to embrace its Ottoman past. He went on:

We were born and raised on the land that is the legacy of the Ottoman empire. They are our ancestors. It is out of the question that we might deny that presence. Of course, the empire had some beautiful parts and some not so beautiful parts. It’s a very natural right for us to use what was beautiful about the Ottoman Empire today.

His new home does little to dispel the impression that he sees himself as Turkey's new Sultan.

The new presidential palace dwarfs both the White House and the Kremlin and contains 1,000 rooms. It was built on protected forested land, mirroring the controversy over Gezi Park. Erdogan stated that Turkey should embrace its Ottoman past and indirectly challenged Ataturk's secular order.

Erdogan has already been accused of being corrupt and authoritarian, an image that is furthered by the building of a palace 50 times larger than the White House. The pandering to Islamism and neo-Ottomanism shows his determination to be a much more powerful president than Turkey has ever seen before.

What say you, pasteurized and unpasteurized inhabitants of NSG? Is this a waste of money or is this necessary? How powerful of a president does Erdogan want to be? Should Turkey embrace the Ottoman Empire?

Only $350 million? That's chump change.

[Senyosu]

Erdoğan is a crazy bitch.

[Nursultan Nazarbayev intensifies]

In any case, he is most definitely drunk on power.