Is War A Valid Option To Deal With Putin?

[United Marxist Nations]

Of course war is a valid option to deal with Putin.

Whether it is a good option is a much more salient point.

War is the best option to deal with Putin.

You wanna go into the meat-grinder first? Because I sure as hell aren't going.

[Occupied Deutschland]

Yes, like we should have done in Georgia.

Georgia was the aggressor in that war, it invaded South Ossetia, and killed the joint-Georgian-Russian Peacekeepers.

Georgia was AN aggressor in that war. It invaded South Ossetia after Russian 'volunteers' (and Russian regulars, though that is (of course) challenged by Russia) funneled into South Ossetia after Russian air-force aircraft flew into Georgian airspace, after military exercises when Russian troops who trained alongside South Ossetians didn't return to their regular bases, after three+ months of mutual artillery and rifle-fire exchanges, punctuated by the bombing of a Georgian official, between South Ossetian and Georgian military and police (including Georgian peacekeepers being shelled by South Ossetian forces).

As Georgia had withdrawn their peacekeepers, they also didn't end up killing any 'joint Georgian-Russian' peacekeepers. Only Russians.

[United Marxist Nations]

Georgia was the aggressor in that war, it invaded South Ossetia, and killed the joint-Georgian-Russian Peacekeepers.

Georgia was AN aggressor in that war. It invaded South Ossetia after Russian 'volunteers' (and Russian regulars, though that is (of course) challenged by Russia) funneled into South Ossetia after three+ months of mutual artillery and rifle-fire exchanges, punctuated by the bombing of a Georgian official, between South Ossetian and Georgian military and police including Georgian peacekeepers being shelled by South Ossetian forces.

As Georgia had withdrawn their peacekeepers, they also didn't end up killing any 'joint Georgian-Russian' peacekeepers. Only Russians.

Ah, I had heard that Georgian peacekeepers were killed as well.

[Greater Weselton]

Putin is a good man who is trying to save Europe.

[United Marxist Nations]

Putin is a good man who is trying to save Europe.

Not really. I mean, sure, I defend some of his actions, but I have no delusions as to his motives.

[T Roosevelt]

War is the best option to deal with Putin.

You wanna go into the meat-grinder first? Because I sure as hell aren't going.

I'll be in the first infantry squad line, I'll have no regrets. It's the duty of a man to defend his country and its honor and the minute he lets go of that responsibility, he regresses back to his boyhood. You must go.

[T Roosevelt]

War is the best option to deal with Putin.

Best by what measure?

A war would cost much more than a bag of gold.

I don't care about how much we spend. This would be an incredible opportunity for the United States by any measure.

[United Marxist Nations]

You wanna go into the meat-grinder first? Because I sure as hell aren't going.

I'll be in the first infantry squad line, I'll have no regrets. It's the duty of a man to defend his country and its honor and the minute he lets go of that responsibility, he regresses back to his boyhood. You must go.

But it wouldn't be to defend the country, it would be to engage in a war purely for the competing interest of the imperialist powers.

[United Marxist Nations]

Best by what measure?

A war would cost much more than a bag of gold.

I don't care about how much we spend. This would be an incredible opportunity for the United States by any measure.

Opportunity to be killed and drenched in nuclear radiation, you mean?

[Greater Weselton]

Putin is a good man who is trying to save Europe.

Not really. I mean, sure, I defend some of his actions, but I have no delusions as to his motives.

I am surprised you agree with him at all.

[United Marxist Nations]

Not really. I mean, sure, I defend some of his actions, but I have no delusions as to his motives.

I am surprised you agree with him at all.

I don't, I just find some of his actions useful.

[T Roosevelt]

I don't care about how much we spend. This would be an incredible opportunity for the United States by any measure.

Opportunity to be killed and drenched in nuclear radiation, you mean?

Our SDI program can stop Putin's toys. The missile defense that the United States of America has is superior to anything the ruskies can dish out. A commie cossack like Putin with delusions of power will relent to our superior military force. Russia will not survive a total war with the United States.

[United Marxist Nations]

Opportunity to be killed and drenched in nuclear radiation, you mean?

1) Our SDI program can stop Putin's toys. 2) The missile defense that the United States of America has is superior to anything the ruskies can dish out. A commie cossack like Putin with delusions of power will relent to our superior military force. 3) Russia will not survive a total war with the United States.

1) No evidence of that
2) You mean like the 1800 weapons they have? Dude, you wouldn't be able to stop all of them. Probably not even most of them.
3) Neither would the United States.

[New Comfederate States of America]

NOOO!!!! No war with Russia! No more American lives endangered intervening in other countries affairs! Let Russia have Crimea and Ukraine, historically it's their territory anyway. No more US imperialism and global empire of military bases. If the EU wants to go to war with Putin let them, but the U.S. needs to keep out of foreign crisis that don't directly affect us. (I also support us leaving NATO and the UN to keep us out of other foreign wars).

[Korva]

NOOO!!!! No war with Russia! No more American lives endangered intervening in other countries affairs! Let Russia have Crimea and Ukraine, historically it's their territory anyway. No more US imperialism and global empire of military bases. If the EU wants to go to war with Putin let them, but the U.S. needs to keep out of foreign crisis that don't directly affect us. (I also support us leaving NATO and the UN to keep us out of other foreign wars).

Totes, who needs American imperialism when you can have Russian imperialism. It's basically the same thing but with incompetence, less civil rights, rampant alcoholism, and population decline.

And damn NATO for getting you in all those wars, cause y'know, it has dragged America into so many...

[T Roosevelt]

1) Our SDI program can stop Putin's toys. 2) The missile defense that the United States of America has is superior to anything the ruskies can dish out. A commie cossack like Putin with delusions of power will relent to our superior military force. 3) Russia will not survive a total war with the United States.

1) No evidence of that
2) You mean like the 1800 weapons they have? Dude, you wouldn't be able to stop all of them. Probably not even most of them.
3) Neither would the United States.

I don't care if all 1800 weapons land and cover all native soil. Belief in my nation what I'm fighting for and that's a relentless battle. It's a fight that can't be stopped. The honor of belief in my nation, in my God, in my family is enough for me to accept the fate Mutually Assured Destruction. I have a belief in the way that things have to be and if things must end in those conditions, so be it. We will not surrender easily, I believe it, I will it. Not stopping all of their weapons is acceptable, the citizenry will work harder to defend their nation, anyone would if hearing ballad of bombs rattling the ground beneath their feet. This war is not about beating Russia, this total war will be about belief. I don't care about the numbers, I don't care about the expenses, we must get to the end game. Every nation must know that war with us is going to destroy them.

[Rhyfelnydd]

I don't care about how much we spend. This would be an incredible opportunity for the United States by any measure.

Opportunity to be killed and drenched in nuclear radiation, you mean?

Here here. A war between Russia and the US would be absolutely disastrous, with the looming possibility of nuclear conflict.

[Greater Istanistan]

Our SDI program can stop Putin's toys. The missile defense that the United States of America has is superior to anything the ruskies can dish out. A commie cossack like Putin with delusions of power will relent to our superior military force. Russia will not survive a total war with the United States.

Are you roleplaying, or do you legitimately believe this?

1. False on several counts. There's no proof that the SDI can stop 1800 missiles in one go, let alone one. Most of its assets are on the West Coast and as such are totally useless when dealing with the vast majority of Russian missiles, which are deployed in the country's Europe-facing West half. Furthermore, even with a gratuitously liberal 99% intercept rate, which would be ludicrously high, it would still let 18 MIRV-equipped missiles through, each capable of hitting multiple targets. So go count about 90 major US cities and add the casualties up, then ask yourself if that's a victory.

2. Ruskies. Pretty sure that's racist.

3. Commie. Last I checked, United Russia was a party of the nationalist/populist Right. Did something change?

5. Cossack. Nope. Pretty sure he's a pure ethnic Russian.

6. Delusions? Nope. If he's delusional about his power, how does he have Crimea and Donetsk in his back pocket?

7. You're saying that if the US were to deploy the vast majority of its military on an expensive and gruelling campaign against a historically tenacious and well-armed foe capable of taking out hugely expensive equipment, it would at the same time be able to continue its economic recovery and not collapse? Because it would. The result would be worse than what happened in Vietnam. Way worse.

8. And the Americans would end it being better off if they hadn't survived.

[United States of The One Percent]

I'll deal with the OP, one a at time and then all to onct.

We all know Russian President Putin is growing out of hand.

Says who? All Russia has done so far is to assert its national interests in what it calls its "near abroad," something it has done since, well, there was a Russia, and something every nation with means, motive and opportunity has done since, well, there were nations. That the US, or Europe, or, with more justification, Ukraine and Georgia, doesn't like the results doesn't mean Russia is any more "rogue" than any other nation.

Something has to be done, since economic sanctions aren't effective since they were issued against Russia.

First, something is being done, the economic and other sanctions you mention. You may not think they're effective but Russia's behavior -- complaining, launching cyber raids, retaliating -- suggests they are. France may be about to eat a big warship deal; thermostats may be going down elsewhere in Europe. A clear line has been drawn across NATO members' borders, a line Russia is unwilling to cross. The rest of the world is reacting to Russian activity in a measured and reasoned way.

Should war be brought forth? Or is there yet another option?

That says a lot more about you than about Russia. First, that you don't think things through, which might have made you an ideal head of the Coalition Provisional Authority in Iraq or W Administration war "planner" but doesn't cut much mustard anywhere else. When not even the most radical members of Congress or commentators are calling for war against Russia, well, you might just want to get down off your mustang, Sally.

Start by answering these questions: war where? By whom? With what ends? At what costs? Who will fight it? How long will it last? What's the plan if war doesn't achieve its goals? Given that war with Iraq cost hundreds of thousands of lives, trillions of dollars and an untold amount of sacred honor and lasted longer than any war America had ever fought, would war with Russia be more or less costly? Would it be worth it?

Now, all to onct:

We all know American President Obama is getting out of hand. Something has to be done, since economic sanctions haven't even been tried. Should war be brought forth?

America, Russia and every other nation don't act in the world the way they do because they are good and/or right; they don't act in the world the way they do because they are evil and/or wrong. They act the way they do in the world because they can. Russia acts where it can; America acts where it can. Might makes right. Get used to it; it's never going to change.

[Cyrisnia]

Opportunity to be killed and drenched in nuclear radiation, you mean?

Our SDI program can stop Putin's toys. The missile defense that the United States of America has is superior to anything the ruskies can dish out. A commie cossack like Putin with delusions of power will relent to our superior military force. Russia will not survive a total war with the United States.

*Casually sees 99 red balloons fly by*

[T Roosevelt]

Our SDI program can stop Putin's toys. The missile defense that the United States of America has is superior to anything the ruskies can dish out. A commie cossack like Putin with delusions of power will relent to our superior military force. Russia will not survive a total war with the United States.

Are you roleplaying, or do you legitimately believe this?

1. False on several counts. There's no proof that the SDI can stop 1800 missiles in one go, let alone one. Most of its assets are on the West Coast and as such are totally useless when dealing with the vast majority of Russian missiles, which are deployed in the country's Europe-facing West half. Furthermore, even with a gratuitously liberal 99% intercept rate, which would be ludicrously high, it would still let 18 MIRV-equipped missiles through, each capable of hitting multiple targets. So go count about 90 major US cities and add the casualties up, then ask yourself if that's a victory.

2. Ruskies. Pretty sure that's racist.

3. Commie. Last I checked, United Russia was a party of the nationalist/populist Right. Did something change?

5. Cossack. Nope. Pretty sure he's a pure ethnic Russian.

6. Delusions? Nope. If he's delusional about his power, how does he have Crimea and Donetsk in his back pocket?

7. You're saying that if the US were to deploy the vast majority of its military on an expensive and gruelling campaign against a historically tenacious and well-armed foe capable of taking out hugely expensive equipment, it would at the same time be able to continue its economic recovery and not collapse? Because it would. The result would be worse than what happened in Vietnam. Way worse.

8. And the Americans would end it being better off if they hadn't survived.

Vladimir Putin is trying to rebuild the soviet union, he is practically Stalin if he is willing to expand without fair justification. His seizure of Crimea and Donetsk is part of his purpose. There's nothing wrong with being ethnically russian (is there even such a thing?) and the term ruskie doesn't imply that, cossack is a term against his dictatorial practice, not his ethnicity. He acts above impunity as if he is some sort of cossack ataman. He acts with immediately with executive authority to an irrational extent. As for your 7th point, we did it in the 50s. Point one isn't a high priority in my book, serving your nation to show the world that we're willing to throw everything at any challenger will end all war, there will always be war unless a just one is fully waged.

[United States of The One Percent]

We will not surrender easily...

Who's "we," Teddy? You got a turd in your pocket? If the real TR was as batshit crazy as you he'd've been locked up in the nearest Happy Home before he made Assistant Secretary of the Navy. But then I suppose you know that already. Troll on, dude. Troll on. Bully! Cha-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-arge!

[T Roosevelt]

We will not surrender easily...

Who's "we," Teddy? You got a turd in your pocket? If the real TR was as batshit crazy as you he'd've been locked up in the nearest Happy Home before he made Assistant Secretary of the Navy. But then I suppose you know that already. Troll on, dude. Troll on. Bully! Cha-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-arge!

I'm not trolling as Theodore Roosevelt, I am not in that character.

[Our Governator]

Just show him you won't mess around and he'll run away like a bat in the light. Russia likes to talk big and act big, but they're a Wizard of Oz at best.

[T Roosevelt]

Just show him you won't mess around and he'll run away like a bat in the light. Russia likes to talk big and act big, but they're a Wizard of Oz at best.

That's 3/4ths of my argument in defense of a war against Russia.