The Miniluv Messenger: Big Brother is Watching Gameplay

[Unibot III]

But, after about a week, I didn't really think this was a good idea.

Out of curiosity, if you decided this was a bad idea after a week, why does the forum still exist three months later? And why does there seem to be no post in it disavowing the entire plan and telling people not to go through with it? In fact, why is there a post from British Grand Pacific from August 29th, over a month later, discussing the need to lay low a bit longer? The evidence seems to suggest that this went on for much longer than a week, if it was ever halted at all.

Excellent points, Wintermoot.

[Anonymouslands]

This is just more "NS aristocracy" squabbles - all these people are veterans and have been schlepping around the feeder/sinker curcuit for lustrums, have all couped each other/or plotted to coup each other, and will continue to do so whilst the GCRs maintain the artificial inportance of being the place where nations are spawned - move nation creation into random regions and their relevance will fade, just like their influence

Not true. They already have so many people and allies and power, that spawning won't make a difference.

[British Grand Pacific]

But, after about a week, I didn't really think this was a good idea.

Out of curiosity, if you decided this was a bad idea after a week, why does the forum still exist three months later? And why does there seem to be no post in it disavowing the entire plan and telling people not to go through with it? In fact, why is there a post from British Grand Pacific from August 29th, over a month later, discussing the need to lay low a bit longer? The evidence seems to suggest that this went on for much longer than a week, if it was ever halted at all.

My post is not a discussion about needing to lay low longer. It is a speculative response to a question a month after any chatter on the subject following that first week.

[Ynys Prydain]

Well, this is somewhat surprising. It's no secret that myself, Todd and some others were pretty frustrated and angry at the time, and did a fair amount of moaning on IRC and talked amongst ourselves about a variety of things for a couple of days. However I'm completely unaware of anything beyond moaning having occurred, and am quite disappointed that someone I choose to trust with concerns has publicized them for no apparent reason other than causing drama, and in such a sensationalist manner.

Bel, I'm going to go out on a limb and suggest that your disappointment with my abuse of your trust is the furthest thing from anyone's mind except your own right now.

[Karputsk]

If this was the other way round, and Unibot was revealed as having been involved I can guarantee 90% of gameplay would be posting their outrage, as well as those currently implicated, and any attempts to downplay this would be swiftly shouted down by everyone who was tracking the threads.

This also goes a long way to devalue the apologies and excuses made in regards to a similiar situation regarding TRR involving similar people from TEP. These people should probably stop doing this underhanded political manouvering begins to be associated with them, if it hasn't already.

[Glen-Rhodes]

If this was the other way round, and Unibot was revealed as having been involved I can guarantee 90% of gameplay would be posting their outrage, as well as those currently implicated, and any attempts to downplay this would be swiftly shouted down by everyone who was tracking the threads.

We already know this is how it would go down, because it already happened in TSP, albeit with much less evidence.

[Tano]

If this was the other way round, and Unibot was revealed as having been involved I can guarantee 90% of gameplay would be posting their outrage, as well as those currently implicated, and any attempts to downplay this would be swiftly shouted down by everyone who was tracking the threads.

This also goes a long way to devalue the apologies and excuses made in regards to a similiar situation regarding TRR involving similar people from TEP. These people should probably stop doing this underhanded political manouvering begins to be associated with them, if it hasn't already.

...I'm assuming you're referring to #seekrets. That was most defiantly taken as a joke by everyone involved, and I've always assumed such, as has everyone else that participated.

[RiderSyl]

It's not a question of who plans to stack votes.
It's a question of who does it and gets away with it.
Those involved in this clearly didn't.

[Evil Wolf]

Operation Brave Toaster was launched to bring citizens of The East Pacific, Osiris, and Balder, and potentially elsewhere, to The South Pacific for the purpose of forming a new voting bloc. This new voting bloc was to include known players as well as undetectable, covert roleplayers with no obvious ties to their home regions. The operation was initiated following concerns by Belschaft and McCloud of alleged vote stacking by their political opponents in the most recent Cabinet election.

Members of The Pacific do the exact same thing in Lazarus, then illegally, under Lazarus law of the time, kick out citizens that opposed their rule, overthrow the democratic government, establish a dictatorship, and join the FRA and no one cares. Not even news worthy.

A few people try to do way, way less than that in TEP, and it's the single most important news story of our time.

[Glen-Rhodes]

Yeah, nobody ever talked about Lazarus. Ever. Not once did the Gameplay forums ever get bogged down in threads over Lazarus.

-_-

[Eluvatar]

Operation Brave Toaster was launched to bring citizens of The East Pacific, Osiris, and Balder, and potentially elsewhere, to The South Pacific for the purpose of forming a new voting bloc. This new voting bloc was to include known players as well as undetectable, covert roleplayers with no obvious ties to their home regions. The operation was initiated following concerns by Belschaft and McCloud of alleged vote stacking by their political opponents in the most recent Cabinet election.

Members of The Pacific do the exact same thing in Lazarus (then illegally under Lazarus Lazarene law) kick out citizens that opposed their rule, overthrow the democratic government, establish a dictatorship, and join the FRA and no one cares. Not even newsworthy.

A few people try to do way, way less than that in TEP TSP, and it's the single most important news story of our time.

I have corrected your statement for you.

Edit: And I have edited my post to make my corrections visible.

[Evil Wolf]

Yeah, nobody ever talked about Lazarus. Ever. Not once did the Gameplay forums ever get bogged down in threads over Lazarus.

The only thing I ever say on the PRL overthrow were threads of congratulations. A no time did anyone ever point out the coup that had occurred.

As I said before over IRC; this behavior was disgusting and the individuals involved abused every ounce of trust and respect afforded to them from The South Pacific.

Ironic, coming from a person who went around via IRC, telegrams, and PMs and asked people in TNP to vote a certain way on a TNP military matter while not even being a citizen of The North Pacific at the time.

You know what they say, Unibot, people who live in glass house...should change in the basement.

[Eluvatar]

As I said before over IRC; this behavior was disgusting and the individuals involved abused every ounce of trust and respect afforded to them from The South Pacific.

Ironic, coming from a person who went around via IRC, telegrams, and PMs and asked people in TNP to vote a certain way on a TNP military matter while not even being a citizen of The North Pacific at the time.

You know what they say, Unibot, people who live in glass house...should change in the basement.

The distinction exists between lobbying legislators and infiltrating persons to become legislators so as to form a bloc.

Neither is good, but one is worse than the other.

[Evil Wolf]

The distinction exists between lobbying legislators and infiltrating persons to become legislators so as to form a bloc.

Neither is good, but one is worse than the other.

True, but if I ask people to come from another region and join me in a feeder and form a party based around those people, strictly speaking, no feeder has any rules against that. It's not illegal, to my knowledge, in any feeder region.

Sure, it's a bit morally questionable, and doing it in secret makes it seems more dramatic than it needs to be, but it's not illegal. How would you fight that, anyway? The "no inviting people to our region" Act?

[Sedgistan]

I have corrected your statement for you.

It's best to use strikethroughs on the original text when "correcting/fixing" quotes, just so it's clear what you're doing. If you don't, it can be considered malicious quote editing.

[Eluvatar]

I have corrected your statement for you.

It's best to use strikethroughs on the original text when "correcting/fixing" quotes, just so it's clear what you're doing. If you don't, it can be considered malicious quote editing.

Sure. Edited.

[Glen-Rhodes]

EW, the Lazarus purge was all Gameplay talked about when it happened. People cared, and it wasn't all congratulatory. Don't know where you were or what forums you were reading!

[Evil Lord Sauron]

EW, the Lazarus purge was all Gameplay talked about when it happened. People cared, and it wasn't all congratulatory. Don't know where you were or what forums you were reading!

And are still brought up almost daily I might add.

[Solorni]

EW, the Lazarus purge was all Gameplay talked about when it happened. People cared, and it wasn't all congratulatory. Don't know where you were or what forums you were reading!

And are still brought up almost daily I might add.

One day perhaps the world will be a nice enough place so that defenders wouldn't have to be martyrs when they purge their region of undesirables

[Alustrian]

If this was the other way round, and Unibot was revealed as having been involved I can guarantee 90% of gameplay would be posting their outrage, as well as those currently implicated, and any attempts to downplay this would be swiftly shouted down by everyone who was tracking the threads.

Karp speaks truth.

But meh. I'm not particularly surprised by the plan, the reaction here, or the way it was leaked ( ) Even though it shouldn't, the veneer of trustworthiness of certain individuals will likely survive this. At the least people should keep their eyes open going forward.

[McMasterdonia]

I also agree with Karputsk. I don't think the significance of seriousness of this should be downplayed. To me it looks to be a case of people thinking they needed to fight a wrong (Unibot and Glen alleged voter manipulation etc) with another wrong (forming a voting bloc). However, a lot of this is pure speculation at this point. Kringalia has made no public statement on this issue yet, we do not know yet how he will respond.

This is offensive to TSP sovereignty - however EW is correct. It would be hard to create a law to prevent this from occurring completely. People invite others into their regions all the time - the classic excuse used by others who attempted to bring their friends in to vote and were caught. This stuff happens quite a lot. This seems more serious because TEP were planning it on their regional forum, rather than in private chat rooms or IRC queries. It looks like it was endorsed by the regional government of the East Pacific.

[The Stalker]

With all the plots and coups, feeder politics always seemed like more trouble than it's worth to me.

I mean sure you can build a nice sandcastle at the beach, but eventually the tide's gonna come in. I've always preferred to play King of the Sandbox.

[Unibot III]

Kringalia has made no public statement on this issue yet, we do not know yet how he will respond.

The Cabinet has published a statement on the incident calling for the persona non grata designation of the non-citizens involved, including Todd McCloud, British Grand Pacific, Southern Yugoslavia, Tano and Ramaeus; meanwhile we are pursuing a recall of Belschaft from his position in the High Court and the CSS, plus a recall of God-Emperor from his position as Justice of the High Court.

thinking they needed to fight a wrong (Unibot and Glen alleged voter manipulation etc)

There was no illegal activity on my part as a campaigner. The pathetic part of all of this was Cormac even presented a true summation of events (that I had basically been running a good campaign) and Belschaft dismissed it outright as improbable.

It comes as a great personal victory to me that I, through a lot of hard work, good campaigning and a solid performance defeated not one, but two interregionally-organized and highly illegal conspiracies in one summer that sought to prevent me from winning both TRR Delegate Elections and TSP Chair Elections. Step One is: be Unibot!

[Ambroscus Koth]

If you read it, you see that Cormac was involved with the plan, having access to the secret forum area and was talking to Belschaft on IRC about it. He just seems to attract shadiness and plots fall right into his lap time and time again. Don't do bad things kids. You WILL share your plans with Cormac and your plans WILL become public. It is inevitable, it physics.

I'm not saying that Cormac is shady and not to be trusted either. Its up to you to come to own conclusion about him

1. This is my favorite post ever.

2. I can in fact be trusted with most things. It should be well known by now that GCR coup/subversion plots aren't one of those things, and I'm not sorry for not being trustworthy in that regard nor will I ever be sorry for it. So BT is right, stahp telling me.

Unless I'm the one couping.
Unless you've been one of my closest friends in NationStates since 2012.

Love ya even in quasi-retirement, my man.

Also for anyone reading these logs, I would have totally helped coup TSP. Don't let this leak discourage you from asking me to help in future endeavors of the sort!

[Zaolat]

Wasn't this to stop Glen and Unibot from gaining positions or something? If, so they should be getting a medal instead. Unibot should stick to TRR where he is decent.