The Multi-Species Union [Alliance, Main Page, OOC]

[Cerillium]

And I'm insulting you? I never claimed to be "very knowledgeable" of anything, I said I knew a bit.
Then again, based on the Hetalia comment I can see you've been talking to another "mentor". It wasn't meant to be an insult, simply a dramatic statement of my opinion that you're the only one against this. I'm sorry if you took it as an insult, however you have absolutely NO right to carry a predetermined disposition on my character based on word of mouth.

Clarification:

My RP (PL) had at one time considered a crossover with NS Hetalia. My CoOPs and I spent time reading NS Hetalia's IC and OOC threads and were engaged in talks with the Hetalia OP (at the time) to gauge whether or not the Hetalia group was capable of adapting to our play style. PL and NS Hetalia have had players in common over the years. Sometimes those players came to me when they were stumped by Oale's behaviors IC and OOC, or when they felt bullied by his attitude. My impressions of him are gained though reading his posts (here and in the NS Hetalia threads). These impressions were formed long before I became a Mentor. They were not based upon anything said by another Mentor or by other players.

My decision to place Oale on ignore today was based upon what happened today. I am addressing his post now so that there can be no question as to my character (which Oale has insulted twice now, this time by presuming I'm incapable or unwilling to form my own opinions without "word of mouth" input.) It isn't permanent. It's easier to remain calm if allowed the space to be so.

Oale you can TG Prim to your heart's satisfaction but anything you cook up must be reviewed by the Congress and by me before being placed into action. I suggest that you ask Swith about existing station security to make certain that you know where the boundaries are. Should you have any further grievances to make against that "mentor", I suggest you do so directly with him rather than post baseless accusations here.

[Stormwrath]

Just to be clear, no standing army at this time. However, I might take some suggestions into consideration.

[Monfrox]

Just to be clear, no standing army at this time. However, I might take some suggestions into consideration.

But why do we need it?

[Planeia]

I've chosen to mostly stay out of the whole peacekeeping issue. Planeia's military is a self-defense force (Planeian Self-Defense Force, or PSDF), just like that of Japan's. It rarely operates outside of Planeian territories and assets, and follows roughly a similar policy to this, minus the US protectorate status. This reflects Planeia's own ways of life, to live in pacifism, and all other times retaliate only when attacked.

In addition, I feel it is still too early to arrange forces of any kind. Since we are not a nation, we have nothing to worry about but people attacking our own individual nations, in which case our own militaries respond under our jurisdiction, as has been suggested numerous times. Plus, we must focus more on matters related to Species rather than matters related to international issues or conflicts. We aren't the UN, we're an alliance with a purpose; leave the world policing to the airheads at the WA. I feel the alliance is straying from what its true purpose should be, protecting each individual species and their inherent Sapient Rights. Why call ourselves the Multi-Species Union if we are not going to focus on matters of species? It would make more sense to change our name to Multi-National Union, which might see my withdrawal.

Once we've squared away setting up the alliance firmly, then I'd be willing to talk about peacekeeping forces. They would, and the rest of you should, be restricted to actual peacekeeping, such as protecting a targeted species from genocidal regimes, working to end discrimination, etc.

[Stormwrath]

So basically, we could be a space UNESCO?

[G-Tech Corporation]

Cheers mates. Happy to join this somewhat-auspicious organization. Anything we're up to, aside from the conference/meeting and debating the military role of the Union?

[Arcanium of Mars]

Cheers mates. Happy to join this somewhat-auspicious organization. Anything we're up to, aside from the conference/meeting and debating the military role of the Union?

Welcome to the Union!

[Primordial Luxa]

Just to be clear, no standing army at this time. However, I might take some suggestions into consideration.

But why do we need it?

Lets say I go to war with you.
We fight then we come a ceasefire. Im a sneaky git so you don't trust me to maintain the ceasefire and im paranoid so i don't trust you.
We call in a bunch of nations from the MSU to police the cease fire instead.

I've chosen to mostly stay out of the whole peacekeeping issue. Planeia's military is a self-defense force (Planeian Self-Defense Force, or PSDF), just like that of Japan's. It rarely operates outside of Planeian territories and assets, and follows roughly a similar policy to this, minus the US protectorate status. This reflects Planeia's own ways of life, to live in pacifism, and all other times retaliate only when attacked.

In addition, I feel it is still too early to arrange forces of any kind. Since we are not a nation, we have nothing to worry about but people attacking our own individual nations, in which case our own militaries respond under our jurisdiction, as has been suggested numerous times. Plus, we must focus more on matters related to Species rather than matters related to international issues or conflicts. We aren't the UN, we're an alliance with a purpose; leave the world policing to the airheads at the WA. I feel the alliance is straying from what its true purpose should be, protecting each individual species and their inherent Sapient Rights. Why call ourselves the Multi-Species Union if we are not going to focus on matters of species? It would make more sense to change our name to Multi-National Union, which might see my withdrawal.

Once we've squared away setting up the alliance firmly, then I'd be willing to talk about peacekeeping forces. They would, and the rest of you should, be restricted to actual peacekeeping, such as protecting a targeted species from genocidal regimes, working to end discrimination, etc.

Replace species with cultures and we begin to look a lot like the UN.
The UN is an alliance with a purpose.
When I play as a FT nation the WA has no control over me because i'm on a different world.
This is something many people keep saying, "were not a nation, we don't need a military". Its kinda silly, plenty of groups have military like systems even if they aren't nations. The ability to use force as a tool of either warmaking or coercion is the single strongest tool any nation has, why shouldn't we have a smaller version of it for this organization.

So basically, we could be a space UNESCO?

Please no. Space UN seems like a much better idea.
Organizations like UNESCO, ECOSOC and the Trusteeship council are pointless without the security council.
Just because we arent the UN yet doesnt mean we should be prepared to be. That was the biggest failing of the UN is they didn't expect all the small and middle tier nations to join. If we only focus on welfare and humanitarian aid their theirs going to be little RPing beside a lot of approval voting. We should be taking a military stand against genocides and sanctioning specieist states.

[Bentus]

-snip-

I thought the UN wanted all the small-medium sized nations to join in the first place? :3
Although personally I would like to see a UN standing army (Can't quite say why...) it doesn't have one though. If it did, then hypothetically a nation's own soldiers could be used in an intervention in their own country - which would open up a whole different can of worms.

I know I'm an observer, but I do like the sound of a space UN Catch is that the UN is an international forum, not an alliance. It's a place for diplomacy and for multi-lateral talks - that's what it was made for. Before the UN (or arguably the LoN) if a nation wanted to address the world, then it would practically have to contact each nation individually. For smaller nations, this was very difficult to do.

Just throwing that out there Interested to see how the peacekeeping force ends up.

[Primordial Luxa]

-snip-

I thought the UN wanted all the small-medium sized nations to join in the first place? :3
Although personally I would like to see a UN standing army (Can't quite say why...) it doesn't have one though. If it did, then hypothetically a nation's own soldiers could be used in an intervention in their own country - which would open up a whole different can of worms.

I know I'm an observer, but I do like the sound of a space UN Catch is that the UN is an international forum, not an alliance. It's a place for diplomacy and for multi-lateral talks - that's what it was made for. Before the UN (or arguably the LoN) if a nation wanted to address the world, then it would practically have to contact each nation individually. For smaller nations, this was very difficult to do.

Just throwing that out there Interested to see how the peacekeeping force ends up.

It wanted them to join but it was mostly concerned with pleasing the big nations; US, France, Britian and Russia. (The US pulled china in for some god forsaken reason)
So most of the charter was made to keep the World Powers happy because without them the whole thing was pointless. As you can guess this made the organization heavily favor the World Powers but not as much so as the Concert of Europe. Most of the small nations hated it but it was either the UN or nothing so they all joined and have been adapting it and themselves to take advantage of it. Medium teir nations like India, Brazil and Japan really like it for various reasons.

[Swith Witherward]

I've chosen to mostly stay out of the whole peacekeeping issue. Planeia's military is a self-defense force (Planeian Self-Defense Force, or PSDF), just like that of Japan's. It rarely operates outside of Planeian territories and assets, and follows roughly a similar policy to this, minus the US protectorate status. This reflects Planeia's own ways of life, to live in pacifism, and all other times retaliate only when attacked.

In addition, I feel it is still too early to arrange forces of any kind. Since we are not a nation, we have nothing to worry about but people attacking our own individual nations, in which case our own militaries respond under our jurisdiction, as has been suggested numerous times. Plus, we must focus more on matters related to Species rather than matters related to international issues or conflicts. We aren't the UN, we're an alliance with a purpose; leave the world policing to the airheads at the WA. I feel the alliance is straying from what its true purpose should be, protecting each individual species and their inherent Sapient Rights. Why call ourselves the Multi-Species Union if we are not going to focus on matters of species? It would make more sense to change our name to Multi-National Union, which might see my withdrawal.

Once we've squared away setting up the alliance firmly, then I'd be willing to talk about peacekeeping forces. They would, and the rest of you should, be restricted to actual peacekeeping, such as protecting a targeted species from genocidal regimes, working to end discrimination, etc.

I agree with this. Well stated, Planeia.

Something to point out, game-mechanics-wise: we're combined tech here. I was very specific in my questioning regarding preserving culture. You have rocks. I have an atomic bomb. We're allies. Why am I allowing you to die on a battlefield when I can launch that bomb from afar and kill the enemy for both of us? It's sometimes better to not try too hard to fashion armies. We should focus on using our combined tech and strength to focus on protecting species, as Planester pointed out.


*hugs* G-Tech! Good to see you!

[Swith Witherward]

-snip-

I thought the UN wanted all the small-medium sized nations to join in the first place? :3
Although personally I would like to see a UN standing army (Can't quite say why...) it doesn't have one though. If it did, then hypothetically a nation's own soldiers could be used in an intervention in their own country - which would open up a whole different can of worms.

I know I'm an observer, but I do like the sound of a space UN Catch is that the UN is an international forum, not an alliance. It's a place for diplomacy and for multi-lateral talks - that's what it was made for. Before the UN (or arguably the LoN) if a nation wanted to address the world, then it would practically have to contact each nation individually. For smaller nations, this was very difficult to do.

Just throwing that out there Interested to see how the peacekeeping force ends up.

I agree with this, too. A "space UN" would give us a niche no other alliance has.



Peeps, we're in the NS forum, a place known for diplomacy and multi-lateral talks RP. We have the ability to do several things. Here's just two of them:

1. Lower tech nations have a neutral area to use for peace talks. The FT nations won't tolerate primitive explosive devices or those strange "guns" that fire lead slugs. Neutral ground is neutral ground.

2. Nations that wouldn't otherwise have an opportunity or means to interact now can. This means that Nation 1 has permission to travel through Nation 2's space in order to reach Nation 3 for trade. In fact, they might rely upon Nation 4, a FT nation specializing in freighter service, to get their goods to and from.

Many of the FT nations are beyond petty wars. I don't think some of our MT and PMT players are quite grasping that. The threat of mutual destruction carries much weight when it's on a galactic scale. The noobie player wants to roll in and crush planets. The experienced player reflects a thought-out canon, culture and tech level. Most FT nations run by experienced players aren't warring over stupid shit. If we encounter a noobie player who insists on "keilling all teh ponies" - we can ignore him. We don't have to engage in a war with any player if they present a shit game with a shit plot and shit tech padded by numberwanking and shoddy wonky tech.

War between nations isn't prohibited. The MSU isn't going to tell anyone to stop warring over ideals, religion, real estate etc. They'll raise an eyebrow if a nation crosses into atrocious methods or behaviors.

What is peacekeeping? Peacekeeping refers to activities that tend to create conditions that favor lasting peace. What is the first line of our mantra? To use diplomacy as a means to achieve peace. Our focus is not military. We may need to mobilize forces on a peacekeeping mission (vaccines to Africa, rebuilding a city on Planet Bolnob). Military force is our last resort. You can defend something with words or by agreements.

We use the word "alliance" often but we are a union, meaning multiple species coming together for a common goal rather than an organization based upon a political agreement between countries to support each other in disputes with other countries.. As Bentus has pointed out, we're more of an international forum. It's been this way since the beginning. Some nation attacks Ponyland States because they hate Ponies. The MSU wouldn't be defending Ponyland States... it would be defending the Ponies themselves from persecution.

[Swith Witherward]

Please no. Space UN seems like a much better idea.
Organizations like UNESCO, ECOSOC and the Trusteeship council are pointless without the security council.
Just because we arent the UN yet doesnt mean we should be prepared to be. That was the biggest failing of the UN is they didn't expect all the small and middle tier nations to join. If we only focus on welfare and humanitarian aid their theirs going to be little RPing beside a lot of approval voting. We should be taking a military stand against genocides and sanctioning specieist states.

There are two types of RP wars.

1. Actual war. This occurs over a long duration. Sometimes many minor battles are fought. Think of it as encompassing all of WWII. These players read for content, and you might find yourself duped by a well-played reincarnation of Operation Fortitude. Players are given the opportunity to attack supply lines, thereby disrupting logistics and hampering the enemy's effectiveness and movement. There might be espionage woven into it. It can take place on a single thread or on several threads over a course of time (each thread is a battle from that war). The players lays down some rules of engagement OOC and, although the nations are fighting, the players themselves have clear and open dialog between them. It's a cerebral game with descriptive posts.

2. Bored Wars. These are when two players meet up and agree to stage a battle RP. They might not even have a good reason to fight other than what's stated in the first post ("The Milquetoast Nation of New Puberty has issued an order to kill all gingers within its borders"). They throw a bunch of numbers at each other without any regard to the logistics required to support such a force. They don't really follow any clear plan, and their threads are peppered with "official declarations" by other noobie players. Players fight OOC and, because no OOC thread exists, that snark is tacked onto an IC post.


The UN Security Council isn't military-centric. Under the Charter, the Security Council has primary responsibility for the maintenance of international peace and security. It has 15 Members, and each Member has one vote. Under the Charter, all Member States are obligated to comply with Council decisions.

The Security Council takes the lead in determining the existence of a threat to the peace or act of aggression. It calls upon the parties to a dispute to settle it by peaceful means and recommends methods of adjustment or terms of settlement. In some cases, the Security Council can resort to imposing sanctions or even authorize the use of force to maintain or restore international peace and security.

The UN sets things up with specific purposes in mind, which is why donating troops was stupid. Here's example:

United Nations Truce Supervision Organization (UNTSO)

In Middle East since May 1948
Strength: 377 total, including:
Uniformed personnel: 157
Military observers: 157
Civilian personnel: 229
International civilians: 86
Local civilians: 134

Fatalities: 50

Appropriation (biennium 2014 - 2015): $74,291,900

Compare that with this:

United Nations Military Observer Group in India and Pakistan (UNMOGIP)

In India and Pakistan since January 1949
Strength: 110 total, including:

Uniformed personnel: 39
Military observers: 439
Civilian personnel: 71
International civilians: 24
Local civilians: 47

Fatalities: 11

Appropriation (biennium 2014-2015): $19,647,100

If you guys just want to do Bored Wars, please let me know. I don't want to invest any more effort into the group for that end result. I'd rather step back and form "teh space UNs" rather than remain part of an organization that causes me to violate pre-existing treaties. I don't mind branching away from the MSU, nor would I harbor any hard feelings for it or you guys.

[Primordial Luxa]

I am for space UN.
I think copying the UN's organization with a few changes is the best way to do this.
@swith I never said I wanted to participate in bad RP's only that we should combat genocides like the UN would.
Also im tired of being ignored is anyone interested in helping me change the charter?
If not ill leave.

[Stormwrath]

I think the MSU will take a lot of restructuring, and that not only would include the charter, but probably the way the organization works.

[Arcanium of Mars]

Scratch this...

[Planeia]

Ladies and Gentlemen! We Arcanians would like to present an ideal donation for the MSU Peace Keepers. Instead of just donating our own, we have decided to make a new tank. This tank is both flexible and functional with any tech level. It has interchangeable parts which means any nation owning one can swap out it's weapons, power supply, and more. We would like to present, the Union's first personal Battle Tank, the Guardian. We may decide to show more later on.

(Image)

FFS, the MSU doesn't need its own tank, the peacekeeping force will be comprised of forces from each of our nations.

Cool tank though.

[The Polarian Empire]

SO whats the discussion of the hour

[Arcanium of Mars]

Forget I even mentioned giving the MSU it's own tank. It was an idea I got after looking into the UN. The UN has vehicles that are painted white with the UN logo, thus signifying that the UN has it's OWN fighting force in a way.... Such a waste of time and effort making it.

UN Vehicles

[Cerillium]

Forget I even mentioned giving the MSU it's own tank. It was an idea I got after looking into the UN. The UN has vehicles that are painted white with the UN logo, thus signifying that the UN has it's OWN fighting force in a way.... Such a waste of time and effort making it.

UN Vehicles

http://www.un.org/en/peacekeeping/issues/fieldsupport.shtml

The UN does have vehicles. Most people are familiar with the white trucks and vans with 'UN' painted on the side. It doesn't have tanks etc.


The UN approaches America and asks her to provide support. She sends a detachment from the 70th Armor Regiment, an armored (tank) unit. The tanks will be painted white. The troops will be issued blue designation. The tanks are still part of the 70th Armor Regiment and US property. The troops are still American servicemen. They're deployed by the US on an official UN mission. An example of this sort of cooperation can be seen in this article depicting a French tank from the UN Interim Force in Lebanon (UNIFIL) Oct 2006.



You can see an example of Canadian peacekeeping forces here. The light armored vehicles are attached to the unit (they're part of the unit's purpose) and do not belong to the UN.

[Cerillium]

I am for space UN.
I think copying the UN's organization with a few changes is the best way to do this.
@swith I never said I wanted to participate in bad RP's only that we should combat genocides like the UN would.
Also im tired of being ignored is anyone interested in helping me change the charter?
If not ill leave.

We haven't had a chance to look at the charter mainly because it's IC and that's moving slowly. There was a thread on the OSF (OOC) that had some suggestions. I'd really like to look into the charter to see where we can tighten it, as well as reduce some redundancy in it.

[Urran]

Medication is out of my system and I'm now safe to be around. Plus my infection is gone.



On another note, I have discovered hetalia...hmmm...MSU hetalia....

[Urran]

Prim, people aren't donating those things. It's been nothing but combat forces for the most part. We've no, strike that, I asked people if they'd be willing to donate some police forces to keep the current HQ safe just to start with. No response. Nobody seems willing to donate just 10 men.

I've attempted to outline how this will all work but you and Min and Urran are the only ones who have taken the time to respond in the Congress thread. I was looking for some common ground in order to expand on how the chain of command and other things will work. I've delayed posted there in the hope that others would chime in. So far, nothing posted.

I believe I have 5 guards on the station and will gladely donate police forces and base security to the HQ. I've just been busy RL or I would have responded more.


Remember, if you guys need anything, I check my TGs twice daily even if I have no time to post. If you need anything, TG me and I will help ASAP

[Uehe]

I officially resign from the office of Defense.
Doing nothing and being inactive is not my job
Oh, and update the list, one member has crossed out his membership on his signature and another, Tuva SSR, I don't need to tell you about the ministerial position.

Bumping this down before I leave, since the roster was never updated.

[Cerillium]

I officially resign from the office of Defense.
Doing nothing and being inactive is not my job
Oh, and update the list, one member has crossed out his membership on his signature and another, Tuva SSR, I don't need to tell you about the ministerial position.

Bumping this down before I leave, since the roster was never updated.

I'm not too worried about ministry positions (I'm restructuring my cabinet). I'll see if Aravea just has a coding error in his sig. Thanks Uehe.

And an update: Aravea is having coding woes. The cross-out is unintentional.